TRC stats

Discussion in 'The Rugby Championship 2017' started by Cruz_del_Sur, Oct 21, 2016.

  1. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

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    We are our own worst enemy.

    [​IMG]

    Makes me wanna bang my head against the wall. Nothing really new, but it's mesmerizing when you see the hard facts.

    This one is quite interesting too.
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Bruno_ARG

    Bruno_ARG Member

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    Really interesting stats. They make sense actually, since we have good ball carriers and we have improved at the rucks and maybe breakdowns. We are trying to develop a 'passing' rugby instead of the up and under and kicking centered kind of rugby we used to do back in 2007. Bad news is we got worse at scrums and line-outs, a lot. I really missed Ayerza. :( Another good thing is the possession, I remember a couple of years ago even when we were already playing at TRC, that all we used to do was defend during the entire match.
     
  4. The Jones Boy

    The Jones Boy Senior Member

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    Looking at those stats its not hard to see why the Pumas are becoming a force at the top of world rugby.

    What the stats do not show is important aspects like decision making in crucial phases and times.
     
  5. Ospervat

    Ospervat Senior Member

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    As a Saffa banging my head against a wall is a luxury. Thank god I'm on my meds otherwise I think I might jump.

    SA are the worst performing team in half of the table1 criteria and hardly feature in table 2.

    But that's OK cos we had a bit of a chat over two days and have unanimously agreed that we are c**p.

    So problem solved then.
     
  6. Larksea

    Larksea Senior Member

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    is Ben Smith the best fullback to ever play the game or is he actually the best player ever full stop. Let us now discuss :D
     
  7. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

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    Neither. Christian Cullen, at his best, was nothing short of phenomenal.
     
  8. Five Meters Out

    Five Meters Out Senior Member

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    I don't rate Smith ahead of Christian Cullen or JPR Williams, but he's right up with them. These stats show how important Ben Smith is to the All Blacks right now.

    In fact all the stats are really interesting so thanks to Cruz del Sur. Other interesting ones are Dane Coles in top five for "Clean breaks". He's a hooker???
    Hooper tops tackles and turnovers. He's a great player that Hooper. I really like him and get nervous every time he gets near the ball vs All Blacks. He is one player who would definitely make the All Black starting 22 were he a Kiwi (well he would if I were a selector).
    Barrett's name comes up all over the stats.
    However stats need interpretation - what about Savea getting in so many top fives?? He's become a bit of a frustrating character for mine. He'd have made "Tackles Missed" and "Balls dropped", top five lists as well.
     
  9. Larksea

    Larksea Senior Member

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    Cullen was very good, created some great moments and on is own was a legend. His career was fairly short, never won a SR title or WC. had injury issues.
    Personally I rate Mills ahead of him. Played 100 tests - first All Black back to do so and accumulated an amazing record. His all round skillset and accuracy were pretty amazing and he had some big seasons for the AB's. Go back and look at the All Blacks highlights for 2010, its basically a Mills Muliaina highlight! Mills also drew attention to just how important it is for a fullback to be exceptional under the high ball. The AB's gameplan basically revolved around him being awesome under the high stuff. Maybe not the all out running game of Cullen but generally better everywhere else.

    IMO Ben Smith easily tops them both, has the all round Skillset and high ball wizardry of Mills and an all round better attacking game than Cullen, maybe not the runner Cullen was in his prime but he has a much more diverse attacking arsenal and a much better team player, he easily creates more tries than he scores, and he scores a lot, Cullen was kinda known as being a bit selfish or individual. You were more likely to get a dummy than a pass from Cully. Smith is also much more active in games.

    Simply put if we were discussing the best try scoring fullback ever then maybe Cullen would get it. But best allround fullback? No Smith is easily better.

    I would say the most controversial thing about Smiths career is how late it took for the selectors to see just how good he actually is. I would say he deserved a regular squad spot from 2009 onward but only really get selected regularly in 2012/13? The selectors preferred Toeava over Smith for about 3 years which was clearly a selection mistake. Then persisted with an out of form Dagg as first choice fullback for a further 2-3 years. If not for that he'd probably have 80 test caps by now.

    That said, even now without considering that Smith probably has a lions tour and another World Cup left in him, hes the best full back we have produced and I think NZ has produced the best. Respect to the ones outside NZ like Burke & Co. And not considering the old school era. Great at the time but hard to compare because those guys would have seriously struggled in the modern era, its impossible to compare.

    Didn't mean to derail this stats thread, But Ben Smith features heavily in those stats. Easily our best and most consistent Back this RC as he is pretty much every series for the last few years.
     
  10. Makos

    Makos Senior Member

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    I think time immortalizes players and makes them immune to current comparisons, because the game was at a different stage. I think Ben Smith has everything over any player ever, but he's had the luxury of coming through at a different era. It's important to remember the past, but it's also important to recognize the present appropriately and what we see with Ben Smith is incredible for this era.
     
  11. smartcooky

    smartcooky Referee Coach and Advisor

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    ... and we know who we have to thank for that don't we? John Mitchell; undoubtedly THE . WORST . ALL BLACK . COACH . EVER!!

    He was the idiot who wanted to turn Cullen into a specialist centre; a position for which he was entirely unsuited. Then, when it didn't work, he didn't take him to the 2003 RWC and took two specialist centres (Nonu and Umaga) instead, and then played Leon McDonald (a fullback/wing/ 1st 5/8 utility) at centre in the semi-final

    He also, controversially, dropped Mehrtens from the 2003 squad, and played Carlos Spencer at 1st 5/8 in the semi

    We know what happened next!!
     
  12. Pampas

    Pampas Senior Member

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    Going by those stats, Pumas were the second best team in RC. But like someone already said, stats dont show many important facets of the game where we compare to a tier 2 team: decision making, consistency and mental toughness.
     
  13. FNS

    FNS Senior Member

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    Despite bad results this RC i saw a solid team in areas never seen before. We can score against anyone. At this pace we can compete for a world cup in 10 years.
     
  14. smartcooky

    smartcooky Referee Coach and Advisor

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    I see two issues that need addressing with the Pumas.

    First, you don't seem to be able to stack two really good performances back to back. You were excellent and really competitive against the All Blacks in New Zealand, and then pants in the next match against the Wallabies in Australia. (the only time you did play well twice in a row was first two games against South Africa. I thought you were unlucky not to win both.

    Second, you either get into winning positions and don't finish the job off, or you get off to a really bad start and are always playing catch up.
     
  15. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    What is worrying about those stats, is that South Africa are on the bottom of every attacking stat.

    But what is baffling is the topic of turnovers. Where New Zealand didn't have one standout "Fetcher", and that has to do with the fact that the whole team are fetchers!!
     
  16. Sotavalta

    Sotavalta Senior Member

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    Well these stats are just depressing to look at. Sh*t way to start my Wednesday.
     
  17. james5000

    james5000 Senior Member

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    Can you say something good about Aussie?
    Are they a force at the top of world rugby?
     
  18. nzlizard

    nzlizard Senior Member

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    Interesting when you look at a couple of AB's eg, Savea and Naholo, right up their in some of the stats yet have shared a position between them.

    What would it look like if one of them had played every game, the numbers would have been amazing.

    Agree with above also regarding Argentina, the stats are great for them but putting consistent performances back to back is a must and their decision making needs to improve.

    Also that bull**** they played against the AB's, taking dives and acting like they are almost dead needs to stop, a lot of people will lose respect real quick if they keep that **** up.
     
  19. GoTheNaki

    GoTheNaki Senior Member

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    As soon as Argentina were added to The Rugby Championship.... I thought "****, here they come...". I think it's unfortunate that they don't add their "overseas" players, outside of Super Rugby, they really could be better than they are now... But it obviously adds roots to build on, they're getting talented youth, and that is the first place to start.
     
  20. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

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    I partially agree. The problem is that we've evolved in some areas at the expense of becoming worse, way worse in others.
    First, we were a predictable team before (good defense, pressure, taking points once we cross midfield) and we still are (we play open every single bloody time). A clear red flag is when the fans, almost unanimously, tell the team "FFS, kick the ball". If you are good at something but the opposition knows what's coming, chances are they will find a way to counter it. It's a matter of time. The trick is to keep the opposition guessing about what you are going to do.

    Second, and this is more important, we're quite poor on defense. All teams miss tackles, but every tackle we miss is either quite a soft one or one that ends in the opposition scoring a try. We used to be very good at this and now we are mediocre at best.

    And, as Pampas implied, we are a very temperamental team and that is killing us at decision making and getting out **** together when the **** hits the fan.
    I'd love to see the stats per 5 minute groups. If i had to guess i'd say we are quite poor at the first minutes of each half, which speaks volumes about our lack of focus and concentration.

    We've got time tho. I am very, very curious about this SR season. I was disappointed with the first season but i have a good feeling about 2017's one.
     
  21. FNS

    FNS Senior Member

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    We are an offensive team now. It`s what we play. I agree we should kick more to get other team off balance but keep in mind defending it`s harder than attacking especially when we got several hard ball carriers that punish you in contact.If we score those obvius chances we allways miss then the other team will have to take risks and there we have our change to end the game.

    We will never win by shutting them off only by over scoring. I can live with that if we fine tune it.
     
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