Wales V Argentina

[Welsh Exile]

TANDY OUT!

Possible Wales XV to face Argentina:Blair Murray; Tom Rogers, Max Llewellyn, Ben Thomas, Josh Adams; Dan Edwards, Tomos Williams; Rhys Carre, Dewi Lake, Keiron Assiratti, Dafydd Jenkins, Adam Beard, Alex Mann, Jac Morgan, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Liam Belcher, Nicky Smith, Archie Griffin, Freddie Thomas, Taine Plumtree, Kieran Hardy, Callum Sheedy, Louis Rees-Zammit.

 

[dullonien]

TANDY OUT!

Possible Wales XV to face Argentina:Blair Murray; Tom Rogers, Max Llewellyn, Ben Thomas, Josh Adams; Dan Edwards, Tomos Williams; Rhys Carre, Dewi Lake, Keiron Assiratti, Dafydd Jenkins, Adam Beard, Alex Mann, Jac Morgan, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Liam Belcher, Nicky Smith, Archie Griffin, Freddie Thomas, Taine Plumtree, Kieran Hardy, Callum Sheedy, Louis Rees-Zammit.

I'm happy enough with that side if it's correct. I've made my opinion of Beard clear before, but it seems like everyone else other that you and me Exile rates him, maybe we've happened to blink every time he makes a monster carry or tackle?

Adams offers some experience I suppose, but he's picked up a lot of ****les over the last few years, and has looked rather dull for a while. He was good in his last Welsh outing in Japan, before coming off injured...

I would also prefer a bit more grunt on the bench, with either Fender or Rhys Davies instead of the more hybrid Freddie Thomas. I also don't particularly rate Hardy, with RMW a better all round player.

But they're all relatively minor points. On the whole there's decent balance. There's some impact on the bench too with Smith, Plumtree, Sheedo and LRZ.

I'll be there on Sun, so hopefully I'll get to see a decent performance and maybe even a win!

 

[dirty harry]

I'm happy enough with that side if it's correct. I've made my opinion of Beard clear before, but it seems like everyone else other that you and me Exile rates him, maybe we've happened to blink every time he makes a monster carry or tackle?

Adams offers some experience I suppose, but he's picked up a lot of ****les over the last few years, and has looked rather dull for a while. He was good in his last Welsh outing in Japan, before coming off injured...

I would also prefer a bit more grunt on the bench, with either Fender or Rhys Davies instead of the more hybrid Freddie Thomas. I also don't particularly rate Hardy, with RMW a better all round player.

But they're all relatively minor points. On the whole there's decent balance. There's some impact on the bench too with Smith, Plumtree, Sheedo and LRZ.

I'll be there on Sun, so hopefully I'll get to see a decent performance and maybe even a win!

I probably disagree with some of this, but ultimately agree that they would be minor disagreements.

Your right about Adams, hes a shadow of his younger self, Beard has never set the world alight, however hes biiiggg and real strong, hes one of those necesities in the scrum and maul we miss. Like you id have prefered Fender over Thomas, but off the bench Thomas makes a bit more sense.

I dont think LRZ is 100%, but him at 90% off the bench in broken play could be devestating, especially the way Sheedy plays, just ask Bowen.

I sm surprised by Carre starting, and Mann, i just dont see what Mann offers, hes a lesser Plumtree with the same discipline issue.

 

[Welsh Exile]

There were rumours Cracknell would start. I think I’d honestly rather see him play than Mann.

Assaratti, Adams, Beard, Mann, Thomas and Edwards I just flat out disagree with which is a third of the team. I can let Edwards and Thomas slide but not the other 3.

 

[dirty harry]

There were rumours Cracknell would start. I think I'd honestly rather see him play than Mann.

Assaratti, Adams, Beard, Mann, Thomas and Edwards I just flat out disagree with which is a third of the team. I can let Edwards and Thomas slide but not the other 3.

I Get why your not a fan, but Griffin is fighting it out for 3rd 4th choice at his club, hes played about 4 times this season hasnt he, at least Assiratti is a regular starter.

Adams also, not the same guy, but solid tactically, and dependable under a high ball and positionally.

Beard Thomas and Edwards are just 50/50 calls.

Mann i agree with, everyone whos coached him loves him.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I Get why your not a fan, but Griffin is fighting it out for 3rd 4th choice at his club, hes played about 4 times this season hasnt he, at least Assiratti is a regular starter.

Adams also, not the same guy, but solid tactically, and dependable under a high ball and positionally.

Beard Thomas and Edwards are just 50/50 calls.

Mann i agree with, everyone whos coached him loves him.

He was captain for the under 20s wasn't he. I remember years ago Hayward or one of the other under 20 coaches was raving about him but the things they were raving about are the same things that standout now. Work rate and mentality.

Now, don't get me wrong, having a great engine and strong mentality is brilliant, a coaches dream, but he's not a good carrier, hes not a good ball player, isn't particularly great over the ball and while he can get through a good shift he doesn't excel in defence either. I think I said to you before but he could do with putting on a stone or 3 and I hate saying that about a player but he's not like a Basham who at least punches above his weight and has good ball skills.

Assarati is at best meh. I'd rather give any of the newer boys a go. Any of them. He woundnt make my 23.

Adams I'll let slide if LRZ is out but if he's fit no one can convince me Adams should start over him.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'm happy enough with that side if it's correct. I've made my opinion of Beard clear before, but it seems like everyone else other that you and me Exile rates him, maybe we've happened to blink every time he makes a monster carry or tackle?

Adams offers some experience I suppose, but he's picked up a lot of ****les over the last few years, and has looked rather dull for a while. He was good in his last Welsh outing in Japan, before coming off injured...

I would also prefer a bit more grunt on the bench, with either Fender or Rhys Davies instead of the more hybrid Freddie Thomas. I also don't particularly rate Hardy, with RMW a better all round player.

But they're all relatively minor points. On the whole there's decent balance. There's some impact on the bench too with Smith, Plumtree, Sheedo and LRZ.

I'll be there on Sun, so hopefully I'll get to see a decent performance and maybe even a win!

Yeah, don’t get me wrong, the most important thing is how we play as a team and approach the game in general. I’m still excited about how we’ll look with Tandy and co.

This team came from WOL anyway so is probably BS

 

[Welsh Exile]

@Cruz_del_Sur what say you?

 

[dullonien]

He was captain for the under 20s wasn't he. I remember years ago Hayward or one of the other under 20 coaches was raving about him but the things they were raving about are the same things that standout now. Work rate and mentality.

Now, don't get me wrong, having a great engine and strong mentality is brilliant, a coaches dream, but he's not a good carrier, hes not a good ball player, isn't particularly great over the ball and while he can get through a good shift he doesn't excel in defence either. I think I said to you before but he could do with putting on a stone or 3 and I hate saying that about a player but he's not like a Basham who at least punches above his weight and has good ball skills.

Assarati is at best meh. I'd rather give any of the newer boys a go. Any of them. He woundnt make my 23.

Adams I'll let slide if LRZ is out but if he's fit no one can convince me Adams should start over him.

I personally rate Mann. He's a Lydiate or POM type player who gets through a mountain of work, chops people down low in defense giving an opportunity to disrupt the opposition or turn the ball over, he's an OK jackal threat himself, and he has a knack of getting on the scoresheet too.

I also think he'd benefit from a bit more size to be truly effective, but I may be wrong. He has been excellent for Cardiff this season so I don't mind seeing him there. I think there's decent balance in the back row as a whole, and with Mann taking on the dirty work it frees up Morgan and Wainwright to do what they're best at.

 

[dirty harry]

@Cruz_del_Sur what say you?

Hes too scared!!!

 

[BenniMarco]

Usually dislike to see Beard/Adams etc but in a team full of youth, I don't mind seeing some of these who have experience of playing in a winning team.

Didn't realise how young some of these are too. Jenkins still only 22, Mann 23. Crazy to think Jenkins was thrown under the bus in what seems like a while ago and made Welsh captain for a game (or a 6N? can't remember)

 

[Welsh Exile]

Usually dislike to see Beard/Adams etc but in a team full of youth, I don't mind seeing some of these who have experience of playing in a winning team.

Didn't realise how young some of these are too. Jenkins still only 22, Mann 23. Crazy to think Jenkins was thrown under the bus in what seems like a while ago and made Welsh captain for a game (or a 6N? can't remember)

I want to see a big autumn from Jenkins. I like him a lot and think he has a high ceiling but he was touted as the next Alun Wyn and while I'm not saying he can't get to that level, I want to see some solid signs that he's progressing. Think he had an injury not so long ago so glad he's back obviously

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Cracknell is a better starter than impact player imo
His plus point is that he can run into people and tackle all game 60 minutes, he just doesn't have the explosion off the bench that you want.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wales: Murray; Rogers, Llewellyn, B Thomas, Adams; Edwards, T Williams; Carre, Lake, Assiratti, D Jenkins, Beard, Mann, Morgan (capt), Wainwright.
Replacements: Belcher, Smith, Griffin, F Thomas, Cracknell, Hardy, J Evans, Rees-Zammit.


Argentina: S Carreras; Delguy, Piccardo, Chocobares, M Carreras; Prisciantelli, Benitez Cruz; Vivas, Montoya (capt), Delgado, Petti, Kremer, Matera, JM Gonzalez, Oviedo.
Replacements: Ruiz, Gallo, Rapetti, Alemanno, Grondona, Moyano, Mallia, Isgro

 

[Welsh Exile]

At least Jarrod Evans on the bench.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Would've rathered Morse on the bench as though it's been a while since I've watched Cracknell I agree with the comments that he's not an impact player.

Concerns over Assiratti, Beard (obviously), Mann, Edwards, Thomas and Adams and while my bench would've been different (I would start Jarrod at 10 and LRZ on the wing) I like having those options to come on. Hopefully the game is within a score or 2 going into the last 20/30 min

Funnily enough I would've gone the other way with Carre and had him to come on in the second half but not mad he's starting but I think Smith is a better starter and much better scrummager (unless Carre has been tearing it up in the scrum this season?) so would've started Smith.

 

[Saintjay]

I always seem to overrate Argentina. Wales by 5

 

[Welsh Exile]

I always seem to overrate Argentina. Wales by 5

I think we’ll absolutely dominate in every facet of the game and win 6-5.

 

[dirty harry]

Would've rathered Morse on the bench as though it's been a while since I've watched Cracknell I agree with the comments that he's not an impact player.

Concerns over Assiratti, Beard (obviously), Mann, Edwards, Thomas and Adams and while my bench would've been different (I would start Jarrod at 10 and LRZ on the wing) I like having those options to come on. Hopefully the game is within a score or 2 going into the last 20/30 min

Funnily enough I would've gone the other way with Carre and had him to come on in the second half but not mad he's starting but I think Smith is a better starter and much better scrummager (unless Carre has been tearing it up in the scrum this season?) so would've started Smith.

Evans ro start? Youve seen the difference Smith makes when he returns to quins, Evans is a poor mans Sheedy for me, slifhtly better goal kicking lol, but ultimately they are both at their peak, Edwards has to play games hes the only option for the next RWC surely?

Surprised to see Cracknell on the bench, orbhe and Mann over Plumtree whonis at least abbressive and tries things.

I agree Carre off the bench, Argies are going to pepper Murray with high balls early on, itll be a scrum fest i think, and Carres strength are not in the scrum. Maybe thats why Beards got the nod.

TBH thats not an argentina line up that strikes fear in me, inexperienced half backs, Mallia and Rubulio will be missed, although theornreplacements are hardly shoddy.

Scotland and England will benefit against a patches up Argies team, but first up they should have too much for us.

My head says 10 - 21

My heart says 17 - 15

 

[Welsh Exile]

Evans ro start? Youve seen the difference Smith makes when he returns to quins, Evans is a poor mans Sheedy for me, slifhtly better goal kicking lol, but ultimately they are both at their peak, Edwards has to play games hes the only option for the next RWC surely?

Surprised to see Cracknell on the bench, orbhe and Mann over Plumtree whonis at least abbressive and tries things.

I agree Carre off the bench, Argies are going to pepper Murray with high balls early on, itll be a scrum fest i think, and Carres strength are not in the scrum. Maybe thats why Beards got the nod.

TBH thats not an argentina line up that strikes fear in me, inexperienced half backs, Mallia and Rubulio will be missed, although theornreplacements are hardly shoddy.

Scotland and England will benefit against a patches up Argies team, but first up they should have too much for us.

My head says 10 - 21

My heart says 17 - 15

Poor man’s Sheedy is wild.

 

[argie]

Starting XV:

1. VIVAS, Mayco (37 caps)
2. MONTOYA, Julián (114 caps) (Captain)
3. DELGADO, Pedro (6 caps)
4. PETTI, Guido (95 caps)
5. KREMER, Marcos (79 caps)
6. MATERA, Pablo (118 caps) (Vicecaptain)
7. GONZÁLEZ, Juan Martín (48 caps)
8. OVIEDO, Joaquín (19 caps)

9. BENÍTEZ CRUZ, Simón (7 caps)
10. PRISCIANTELLI, Gerónimo (2 caps)
11. CARRERAS, Mateo (31 caps)
12. CHOCOBARES, Santiago (33 caps)
13. PICCARDO, Justo (8 caps)
14. DELGUY, Bautista (37 caps)
15. CARRERAS, Santiago (61 caps)

Finishers:

16. RUIZ, Ignacio (24 caps)
17. GALLO, Thomas (37 caps)
18. RAPETTI, Tomás (1 cap)
19. ALEMANNO, Matías (98 caps)
20. GRONDONA, Santiago (23 caps)
21. MOYANO, Agustín (5 caps)
22. MALLÍA, Juan Cruz (48 caps) (Vicecaptain)
23. ISGRÓ, Rodrigo (13 caps)

The fly-half Prisciantelli with only two caps is someone to look.
At the bench, the return of Alemanno after two years, and Gallo comming fron injury.

 

[dirty harry]

Starting XV:

1. VIVAS, Mayco (37 caps)
2. MONTOYA, Julián (114 caps) (Captain)
3. DELGADO, Pedro (6 caps)
4. PETTI, Guido (95 caps)
5. KREMER, Marcos (79 caps)
6. MATERA, Pablo (118 caps) (Vicecaptain)
7. GONZÁLEZ, Juan Martín (48 caps)
8. OVIEDO, Joaquín (19 caps)

9. BENÍTEZ CRUZ, Simón (7 caps)
10. PRISCIANTELLI, Gerónimo (2 caps)
11. CARRERAS, Mateo (31 caps)
12. CHOCOBARES, Santiago (33 caps)
13. PICCARDO, Justo (8 caps)
14. DELGUY, Bautista (37 caps)
15. CARRERAS, Santiago (61 caps)

Finishers:

16. RUIZ, Ignacio (24 caps)
17. GALLO, Thomas (37 caps)
18. RAPETTI, Tomás (1 cap)
19. ALEMANNO, Matías (98 caps)
20. GRONDONA, Santiago (23 caps)
21. MOYANO, Agustín (5 caps)
22. MALLÍA, Juan Cruz (48 caps) (Vicecaptain)
23. ISGRÓ, Rodrigo (13 caps)

The fly-half Prisciantelli with only two caps is someone to look.
At the bench, the return of Alemanno after two years, and Gallo comming fron injury.

Tasty back 3 even without Mallia, dont know much about Piccardo, 10 looks exciting but inexperienced, Cruz at 9 is a big step down.

Better backline than Wales though, i expect a lot of box kicking.

 

[dirty harry]

Poor man's Sheedy is wild.

Why? Have you watched Evans much this season? He really had an opportunity to step in for Smith post lions, but hes been inconsistent at best.

He was OK against Exeter, but in pretty much every other game hes been exploited, made some serious errors, and despite slitting 2 really good kicks late on hes been at about 50% or so (pulled that number out my ass).

Sheedy at least has led Cardiffs attack really well, he looks sharp, and makes good decisions under pressure, esprcially with the boot, his cross field, dink and grubber are proper arrows in hos sheath that Jarrod doesnt have really.

But then in reality, i think we are in a 2 balf men fighting over a comb situation, neither are good enough for int rugby.

Edit: i hate touch screen phones, my fat fingers will never be accurate and i am too lazy to keep going through commentsnwith edits

 

[Welsh Exile]

Why? Have you watched Evans much this season? He really had an opportunity to step in for Smith post lions, but hes been inconsistent at best.

He was OK against Exeter, but in pretty much every other game hes been exploited, made some serious errors, and despite slitting 2 really good kicks late on hes been at about 50% or so (pulled that number out my ass).

Sheedy at least has led Cardiffs attack really well, he looks sharp, and makes good decisions under pressure, esprcially with the boot, his cross field, dink and grubber are proper arrows in hos sheath that Jarrod doesnt have really.

But then in reality, i think we are in a 2 balf men fighting over a comb situation, neither are good enough for int rugby.

Edit: i hate touch screen phones, my fat fingers will never be accurate and i am too lazy to keep going through commentsnwith edits

To be fair I haven’t watched Quins this season and I value your opinion (honestly) so I will take what you say on board but my opinion isn’t based off the last couple of months but even then I’d also like to hear what Quins fans have to say. I say that not expecting them to say he’s been amazing but just to get a larger sample size than just you.

Sheedy, to be fair, has been pretty good this season ball in hand. I’d also say, that when Sheedy has made the step up to international rugby he’s actually done alright. Bit I’d say the last few times Evans has played for Wales he’s done ok too. Maybe this just supports your argument (that they’re both a much of muchness) but for me Evans is a much bigger attacking threat, is faster, has better distribution, more tenacious, better in D (though no Dan Biggar) and just passes the eye test whereas Sheedy doesn’t. Just my view obviously.

 

[dirty harry]

To be fair I haven't watched Quins this season and I value your opinion (honestly) so I will take what you say on board but my opinion isn't based off the last couple of months but even then I'd also like to hear what Quins fans have to say. I say that not expecting them to say he's been amazing but just to get a larger sample size than just you.

Sheedy, to be fair, has been pretty good this season ball in hand. I'd also say, that when Sheedy has made the step up to international rugby he's actually done alright. Bit I'd say the last few times Evans has played for Wales he's done ok too. Maybe this just supports your argument (that they're both a much of muchness) but for me Evans is a much bigger attacking threat, is faster, has better distribution, more tenacious, better in D (though no Dan Biggar) and just passes the eye test whereas Sheedy doesn't. Just my view obviously.

I havnt watched every game tbf, i didnt see him against saints.

Evans cqn be exciting in broken play, and he has great hands, he just cant structure or be patient, hes like my dog seeing a rabbit, tongue flapping in the wind all go no brain...

But neither can defend, neither can kick at goal consistently, neither have a rounded game... and ultimately they are poornint 10s, and probably no upgrade on someone like Costelow (FML). Thenonly other options are Hawkins or Thomas, and both have failed there really.

Its the sorry state of Welsh rugby that Edwards is the only real option, who can make the RWC, unless Costelow takes a sharp uturn, or Wilde / Ford can come from nowhere after u20s

 

[Welsh Exile]

Maybe @BPM or other Quin fans can give their appraisal

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Wales: Murray; Rogers, Llewellyn, B Thomas, Adams; Edwards, T Williams; Carre, Lake, Assiratti, D Jenkins, Beard, Mann, Morgan (capt), Wainwright.

Replacements: Belcher, Smith, Griffin, F Thomas, Cracknell, Hardy, J Evans, Rees-Zammit.

Argentina: S Carreras; Delguy, Piccardo, Chocobares, M Carreras; Prisciantelli, Benitez Cruz; Vivas, Montoya (capt), Delgado, Petti, Kremer, Matera, JM Gonzalez, Oviedo.

Replacements: Ruiz, Gallo, Rapetti, Alemanno, Grondona, Moyano, Mallia, Isgro

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Wales 27-25 Argentina?

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

@Cruz_del_Sur what say you?

I dislike playing Wales in Wales. Hate it actually. No matter the pre-game odds. Been there twice and saw my boys lost both of them, even when i expected them to win.
I will tread very, very carefully.

Hes too scared!!!

Scared? Hell no.
Terrified.

 

[BPM]

Maybe @BPM or other Quin fans can give their appraisal

I'm with @dirty harry I'm afraid. I was really pleased when we signed Evans as I thought he would be perfect for us. Unfortunately, he’s been very underwhelming and I could probably count the number of genuinely good games he's had on one hand.

I'm not saying he's been outright bad, but he's been average to poor for his whole stint at Quins. For the most part he hasn't looked like he should be a regular starter at Premiership level, let alone a test 10.