We Need To Talk About London Irish

[TRF_Olyy]

Might as well have their own thread with everything that's going on




Honestly if not nots get suspended they should bin off all promotion criteria and bring up Jersey and Ealing - clubs are already on the brink without losing another home game, could genuinely see someone (Falcons?) go under as a result

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Might as well have their own thread with everything that's going on




Honestly if not nots get suspended they should bin off all promotion criteria and bring up Jersey and Ealing - clubs are already on the brink without losing another home game, could genuinely see someone (Falcons?) go under as a result

Hopefully Irish will get a deal done, but I'm not holding my breath.

Emotionally it would be nice to see Ealing / Jersey given a shot but I doubt either are geared up either in playing strength or financially.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Prem are sold on 10 team league this fixes it for them.
If the RFU let Irish stay in the championship, that league looks pretty strong shame they Worcesetr couldn't get sorted otherwise Ealing, Jersey, Wasps, Irish, Worcester, Bedford, Coventry, Pirates, Doncaster, Hartbury/Nottingham/Ampthill would be a solid Champ league as well to build off.

Interesting question how many clubs may have quickly adjusted recruitment with this in mind.
Someone like Saints would be made not to be thinking they might have a chance to try and sign forwards like Pearson and Goodrick-Clarke

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I did see the Gloucester CEO is in the press today saying he wants a 10 man league,

Whilst 2 x 10 man leagues does sound great on paper I do think it's more likely that the champ sides wither rather than all get better due to a competitive league - there's not enough appetite for the sport in this country to support a 2nd tier pro league
Most likely is the prem gets ringfenced permanently and the Championship turns into a feeder league (or maybe they go the Super League route of promotion?)

 

[McTallshort]

Having watched a bit of championship rugby this season it's nowhere at the level of the premiership and I'm not sure how any championship team, currently would be competitive. True I haven't seen Jersey or Ealing play but Coventry finished 3rd and as much as I enjoyed watching them they wouldn't last 40 minutes against Tigers or even Bath ().

Coventry's best player by a mile is Will Chudley who only ended up there due to Worcester going under. He is absolutely head and shoulders above anyone in that team with the possible exception of Brown at Full back. Now he was considered a bit of an aging has-been in the premiership. The current levels are a complete mismatch but I do mean current levels. Things could change.

 

[Which Tyler]

I did see the Gloucester CEO is in the press today saying he wants a 10 man league,

Whilst 2 x 10 man leagues does sound great on paper I do think it's more likely that the champ sides wither rather than all get better due to a competitive league - there's not enough appetite for the sport in this country to support a 2nd tier pro league
Most likely is the prem gets ringfenced permanently and the Championship turns into a feeder league (or maybe they go the Super League route of promotion?)

Yup - 2x10 league (or better yet, 10 & 14) requires that the championship is properly supported; with TV exposure, sponsorship, minimum standards and financial viability (on which, same goes for the Prem).
TBH, it needs (needed) to be planned, with joined up thinking, discussion with all stakeholders etc etc; rather than a panicked reaction to adverse conditions.

Quite honestly, it also needed to be done with an absence of 15+ years of war being waged between PRL and the Championship.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't think this is all panic stations part of me feels that the RFU and PRL are wanting this and waited to see which club would fall next prob betting Irish or Falcons.

It's why Wasps have been saved and allowed to join the championship

Whilst I agree the championship is a poor standard atm, I feel a smaller league with more concentration of talent prob would grow to be decent standards again.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I did see the Gloucester CEO is in the press today saying he wants a 10 man league,

Whilst 2 x 10 man leagues does sound great on paper I do think it's more likely that the champ sides wither rather than all get better due to a competitive league - there's not enough appetite for the sport in this country to support a 2nd tier pro league
Most likely is the prem gets ringfenced permanently and the Championship turns into a feeder league (or maybe they go the Super League route of promotion?)

Unfortunately I think this is spot on.

Last season the top attendance was 5,000, the average 1,336 and the lowest 407. Even Championship RL has higher attendances of c2,000 per game.

Wouldn't be attractive to TV in isolation and wouldn't markedly increase the overall value of a TV deal in with the Prem where most of the clubs are in 'every man for themselves' mode anyway.

Can't immediately see recent French D2 attendances but in 2019 the highest was 13,000, average 4,919 and lowest 1,452. Presumably these haven't decreased with the current feel good factor around French rugby. Different gravy to over here.

 

[stus768]

Unfortunately I think this is spot on.

Last season the top attendance was 5,000, the average 1,336 and the lowest 407. Even Championship RL has higher attendances of c2,000 per game.

Wouldn't be attractive to TV in isolation and wouldn't markedly increase the overall value of a TV deal in with the Prem where most of the clubs are in 'every man for themselves' mode anyway.

Can't immediately see recent French D2 attendances but in 2019 the highest was 13,000, average 4,919 and lowest 1,452. Presumably these haven't decreased with the current feel good factor around French rugby. Different gravy to over here.

Do what the french do and have some games on a Thursday to boost the TV value.

 

[will311293]

It doesn't help that all other clubs play Saturday/Sunday. All those players, fans and kids who want to watch but can't because they are playing for their local team saturday/sunday and therefore can't make it.

Maybe if it was agreed that all games were not scheduled to be on tv were played friday night/thursday night to let attendance's get up from people who want to watch it would be easier.

Maybe take a winter break, extend into summer so players have an opportunity to rest and build back, more summer rugby in better weather, longer evenings meaning games can start later.

Rugby needs to be savvy with how it goes, we don't have the wider appeal of football. Strategy needs to come into play. Maybe we also need for a few years to stop importing players from overseas. Put a cap on it, say 3 players overseas from Tier 1 nations and 3 from Tier 2 etc. Help raise the game in Tier 2 by exposing their players to top competition but also get our owns players in limelight.

Take a comparison of Leinster/Munster vs Sale/Sarries vs Sharks/Stormers

Leinster - 4 overseas (Ngatai, Jenkins, Ala'alatoa, Abdaladze) - also realise JGP and Lowe would also be considered overseas historically but been there a long time
Munster - 6 overseas (Knox*, Moore*, Snyman, Healy, Fekitoa, Morris*) -* meaning qualified for Ireland and Healy technically only just became Scottish so realistically 2
Stormers - 0
Sharks - 4 overseas (Richardson, Mavesere, Tshituka, Tapaui) - Richardson has 1 cap scotland but was a SA, Mavesere & Tshituka are Zimbabwean and Dem Congelese.

Compare this to Sarries and Sale

Sarries - 15 (Pifeleti, Lewis, Bello, Riccioni, Mawi, Hunter-Hill (Academy), Christie (Academy), McFarland, Tompkins (academy), Taylor (Academy), Van Zyl, De Haas, Davies, Maitland
Sale - 14 ( Ashman, Van De Merwe, Du Preez x 3, Wiese, Schonert, Huw Davies (academy), Ross, McGuigan, Gourlay (academy), Woodward)

Granted some obviously are academy but feel we could reduce numbers to benefit the league and integrate players dropping out of Wasps, Wuss and Irish.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If you want the English to go that route then you need to be looking to split them as
North
Midlands
South West
London

Could potentially split the Midlands into east and west and have a london west and london east with each side getting the home counties. Cutting Worcester, Irish and Wasps won't really change things.

Basically splitting the league into 4/6 teams from 13 in terms of academy catchment.

The thing is Leinster have a bigger budget than the salary cap so could we even do their model?


Personally I feel the way to go and it's simpler is to get rid of a cap on clubs own home grown players, and set a smaller cap for external players.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why London Irish ‘need a miracle’ to avoid collapse

London Irish are on the brink of collapse. The RFU has set the club a hard deadline of May 30 to prove their viability for next season or be suspended from the English league pyramid.

www.thetimes.co.uk

Not one senior official in the English game has any confidence that the takeover will amount to anything. The consortium has missed multiple deadlines set by the RFU to provide key documentation, including proof of funds.
The RFU must approve any takeover and the union first requested information from the prospective owners five months ago.

It has emerged in recent days that the consortium is headed up by Alfred "Chip" Sloan, an American former sports agent who previously expressed an interest in buying Saracens but did not close the deal. A group of former NBA and NFL players are part of the consortium's leadership team.

One industry source said that the deal should have been thrown out on day one if the consortium was unable to demonstrate its funds, business plan and investors from the outset.

It is understood that the RFU has been frustrated by a series of unfulfilled commitments from the consortium, including statements that payments had been sent when they had not.

Looks like it's only a matter of time, sadly
Consortium sound like chancers, missed every deadline going, and the current owner seems unlikely to carry on with it considering he's (/they've? I don't know who owns them) stopped paying wages before the season was out

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Going to be a scramble for the English london irish players all very good

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If you're having a cap the only sensible way to do it is on x% of revenue (however defined) full stop and no marquee players that sit outside.

That means Tigers will have a bigger player budget than say Falcons but that then puts the onus on Falcons to grow - sustainably - so that they can compete better. Might also mean Tigers could compete better in Europe if x% was above current salary cap levels for them.

I understand the logic of the one size fits all salary cap but it's too much of a blunt instrument. If a club can generate revenue and footfall why shouldn't it benefit from that? One control might be to maximise squad numbers to stop the biggest clubs hoovering up all the talent.

 

[Reiser99]

It doesn't help that all other clubs play Saturday/Sunday. All those players, fans and kids who want to watch but can't because they are playing for their local team saturday/sunday and therefore can't make it.

Maybe if it was agreed that all games were not scheduled to be on tv were played friday night/thursday night to let attendance's get up from people who want to watch it would be easier.

Maybe take a winter break, extend into summer so players have an opportunity to rest and build back, more summer rugby in better weather, longer evenings meaning games can start later.

Rugby needs to be savvy with how it goes, we don't have the wider appeal of football. Strategy needs to come into play. Maybe we also need for a few years to stop importing players from overseas. Put a cap on it, say 3 players overseas from Tier 1 nations and 3 from Tier 2 etc. Help raise the game in Tier 2 by exposing their players to top competition but also get our owns players in limelight.

Take a comparison of Leinster/Munster vs Sale/Sarries vs Sharks/Stormers

Leinster - 4 overseas (Ngatai, Jenkins, Ala'alatoa, Abdaladze) - also realise JGP and Lowe would also be considered overseas historically but been there a long time
Munster - 6 overseas (Knox*, Moore*, Snyman, Healy, Fekitoa, Morris*) -* meaning qualified for Ireland and Healy technically only just became Scottish so realistically 2
Stormers - 0
Sharks - 4 overseas (Richardson, Mavesere, Tshituka, Tapaui) - Richardson has 1 cap scotland but was a SA, Mavesere & Tshituka are Zimbabwean and Dem Congelese.

Compare this to Sarries and Sale

Sarries - 15 (Pifeleti, Lewis, Bello, Riccioni, Mawi, Hunter-Hill (Academy), Christie (Academy), McFarland, Tompkins (academy), Taylor (Academy), Van Zyl, De Haas, Davies, Maitland
Sale - 14 ( Ashman, Van De Merwe, Du Preez x 3, Wiese, Schonert, Huw Davies (academy), Ross, McGuigan, Gourlay (academy), Woodward)

Granted some obviously are academy but feel we could reduce numbers to benefit the league and integrate players dropping out of Wasps, Wuss and Irish.

Problem is that Friday and Thursday come after work or school, children especially make thursdays difficult, where as saturday/sunday you can make a day of it. I get the problem, but I don't think shifting more games to friday/thursday would up attendance massively. If anything I'd say local club games should happen earlier say 10am and then schedule professional games for 3-5pm with the occasional late game as something special.

 

[stus768]

Problem is that Friday and Thursday come after work or school, children especially make thursdays difficult, where as saturday/sunday you can make a day of it. I get the problem, but I don't think shifting more games to friday/thursday would up attendance massively. If anything I'd say local club games should happen earlier say 10am and then schedule professional games for 3-5pm with the occasional late game as something special.

It is very frustrating that all community club games have to be at 1500 on a Saturday. Greater flexibility on this such as early kos and Friday night games would support prem attendance and mean those with families aren't using a whole Saturday to play.
With the need for a better tv deal and more people working from home on Fridays surely Thursday games for prem/champ are a must, works in France.

 

[will311293]

Problem is that Friday and Thursday come after work or school, children especially make thursdays difficult, where as saturday/sunday you can make a day of it. I get the problem, but I don't think shifting more games to friday/thursday would up attendance massively. If anything I'd say local club games should happen earlier say 10am and then schedule professional games for 3-5pm with the occasional late game as something special.

True... it would be an easier fix to increase attendance. Also avoiding internationals and club matchs on the same weekend should be a thing. Maybe play prem cup but never actual premiership rounds.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

All perm tv games need to either be on TV or available to stream for free.
Should look at the NFL have multiple tv deals
Try and get Friday night and sunday afternoon on Freeview.
Something like
Friday = Channel 4
Sunday = ITV
Saturday = 2 live games on TNT sports with maybe a free game on multiple streaming sites youtube or something.
Thing is it's not worth it from a TV deal POV to do it, but long term it would generate more interest I feel in the sport.

Then invest in documentaries, Premier rugby, Championship games, Monday night A league games, Prem cup games and use that to try and boost whatever streaming site has the rugby rights.

As interest develops then start to try and really invest in high level professional docs alongside the national team, and try to parcel it off to Netflix or amazon.

But that's like a 10 year plan really.

Also cull pretty much all the rugby pundits nearly.
Ben Kayser should be the bench mark for future pundits, and ******* come up with a kit deal for the whole league from one company like Nike or Adidas, who honestly are a massive part in getting interest from the younger generation. Target merch for younger crowd something all prem teams struggle to do massively.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

and ******* come up with a kit deal for the whole league from one company like Nike or Adidas, who honestly are a massive part in getting interest from the younger generation. Target merch for younger crowd something all prem teams struggle to do massively.

I said it in the past but they should have jumped in with Reebok (/RBK) a few years ago when Adidas started using it as their niche/"extreme" sports brand
They pumped a crazy amount of money into CrossFit, MMA, Tough Mudder etc., funded grassroots stuff and documentaries etc

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I've said it on here before but the premiership games need to be on a different time to the 'community' game.

Having them all play 15:00 on a Saturday is just stupid. Shooting ourselves in the foot there.