Welsh Premiership to trial 6 point try

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34110570

6 Points for a try, 2 for all goal-kicks.

Will keep an eye on this.

 

[Every Time Ref]

No mention of any measures to mitigate the inevitable increase in penalties. Will referees issue yellow cards more easily?

I'm far from convinced this will have the desired effect in terms of reducing kicks at goal (or even that reducing kicks at goal is necessarily desirable) but it will be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[ratsapprentice]

No mention of any measures to mitigate the inevitable increase in penalties. Will referees issue yellow cards more easily?

Less goal-kicks from penalties and more kicks for territory - if you give away a penalty you better be sure you can defend, because the opposition are going to be far more likely to maul the **** out of you than kick it for 2.

 

[Peat]

I'm not entirely sure why anyone wants to see less shots at goal and more mauls tbh. Still, wait and see, be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Less goal-kicks from penalties and more kicks for territory - if you give away a penalty you better be sure you can defend, because the opposition are going to be far more likely to maul the **** out of you than kick it for 2.

So it will mean even more emphasis on defence and even more driving mauls from lineouts - which often as not take two abortive attempts dragged down and a warning before resulting in a try anyway.

I'm still not convinced this will make for more exciting viewing, to be honest. What's wrong with kicks at goal anyway?

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm still not convinced this will make for more exciting viewing, to be honest. What's wrong with kicks at goal anyway?

Nothing, until they undermine the incentive to play attacking rugby by devaluing tries.

It's difficult to predict what it will lead to - hence why it's being trialled. Obviously you can put forward a number of possible scenarios, but until you do it you don't actually know.

Yes - defence might be emphasised... it's equally likely that attack will be due to a converted try being worth four (!!!) penalty goals.

 

[j'nuh]

I don't like it. My main problem is that it would lead to lots of draws.

2 points is worth so little next to 8, that teams will nearly always go for the 8. Penalties will only be used to break deadlocks later in the game, or for teams to draw in line with the multiples of 8 (e.g. if you are losing 16-6, you might consider scoring a penalty so that you are only a score behind). It will cause scores to mostly be in multiples of 8.

Union doesn't have so many scores comparative to league. So you're more likely to score draws.

 

[RedruthRFC]

(e.g. if you are losing 16-6, you might consider scoring a penalty so that you are only a score behind).

Late in the game (assuming the conditions are reasonable) in the scenario you describe, you might start to see teams taking a tap penalty to a kicker sat in the pocket, which reduces the chance of what you're worrying about (I take your point though). Now that it is worth more than a penalty, I suspect that teams will be more likely to take a drop goal rather than phasing the ball hoping for a break or a penalty.

By reducing the points for as well as increasing the points for a try, the change is pretty massive - a penalty was worth 60% of a try, now it is just 33%!

 

[smartcooky]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34110570

6 Points for a try, 2 for all goal-kicks.

Will keep an eye on this.

I much prefer the NRC scoring in Australia

Try = 5 points
Conversion = 3 points
Penalty Goal = 2 points
Dropped Goal = 2 points

The higher value of the conversion keeps the premium on try-scoring while maintaining the value of having a good goal-kicker

 

[Shaggy]

No harm in a trial - i'd like to see more trials, but with an emphasis on making the games laws less complex/easier to ref.

Some sort of coordinated, global trial, after some careful thought process, with the view to rewriting the laws on (insert the relevant date here)

 

[kraftfloyd]

see how it goes , not quite sure what to make of this , not sure if im for it or against it but no harm in a trial to see how it goes/

 

[nickdnz]

I agree that the ARC looks like it's getting things right.

 

[kraftfloyd]

we could take a leaf out of Gaelic football's book and have a goal net under the posts and that can be worth 6 or 7 points lol , may need to add a goalie so one position will have to be replaced for a goalie instead, well joke suggestion aside, yeah Australian one another feasable one to trial out, but personally im happy the way the scoring stands for the moment.

 

[smartcooky]

No harm in a trial - i'd like to see more trials, but with an emphasis on making the games laws less complex/easier to ref.

Some sort of coordinated, global trial, after some careful thought process, with the view to rewriting the laws on (insert the relevant date here)

Shaggy.

I have posted about this before.

The cornerstone of Rugby Union is the contest for possession; the fact that the ball is contestable at every stage of the game; tackle, ruck, maul, scrum, line-out and when the ball is loose. Those contests are dynamic, and are a key part of what makes the game attractive, but they also, in a large part, contribute to the game's biggest disadvantage, the complexity of the Laws. This is because those contests have to be fair. If they are too much in favour of the team in possession then there is a risk of ending up with a "procession of possession"; it becomes impossible to get the ball off them, and you end up with teams not in possession not bothering to contest, and instead, manning the trenches. On the other hand, if those Laws are too much in favour of the team not having the ball, you get frequent turnovers, and the team with the ball becomes unwilling to take the ball into contact. Instead, teams will kick the ball away, preferring to turn over possession at the other team's end of the field rather then risk losing possession at their own end.

If you try to make the Laws too simple, you may have to remove the contest for the ball too... then you have Rugby League.

 

[valley commando]

New Point Scoring Trial In Welsh Prem.

Many of you will be aware of the new rulings being trialed in the Welsh premiership for the season starting on Saturday.
For those who don't -:

6 Points for a try
2 points for any kick
8 points for a penalty try (no conversion)

If for whatever reason scrums have to be uncontested the scrums must contain 8 players.

If time expires and a penalty is awarded the ref will allow a kick to touch and a lineout.

Also refs have been told to be extremely firm when defending players slow the ball down in their own 22, this to stop sides giving away 2 points repeatdly, expect to see yellow cards given with less tolerance.

 

[valley commando]

No mention of any measures to mitigate the inevitable increase in penalties. Will referees issue yellow cards more easily?

I'm far from convinced this will have the desired effect in terms of reducing kicks at goal (or even that reducing kicks at goal is necessarily desirable) but it will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Yes refs have been told to be harder on killing the ball in the 22.

 

[j'nuh]

Am I the only one who likes there being a sort of dilemma between the penalty and going for the try? It adds a tactical element that you won't see if teams play and train exclusively to score tries. This, and other initiatives to speed up the game, risks turning rugby union into rugby league-lite.

If we want a better flowing game, there are better areas to target. Allowing a minute to set up scrums/lineouts/penalties, and then longer to execute it and restart play, is silly. Too much of the 80 minutes is spent not in play. I want to see players jogging to scrums/lineouts/penalties and getting straight to it. I want people sprinting onto the pitch to hand the kicker the tee, so the kicker has a bit of time to take the kick. I want teams rushing back into their half for the kick-off.

 

[Every Time Ref]

If time expires and a penalty is awarded the ref will allow a kick to touch and a lineout.

Good! This I am unequivocally positive about, I've always thought it ridiculous that teams can get away with constant infringing after the whistle.

Also refs have been told to be extremely firm when defending players slow the ball down in their own 22, this to stop sides giving away 2 points repeatdly, expect to see yellow cards given with less tolerance.

I hope so, I still can't see this working though. Changing the balance between tries and penalties so radically has to change the game radically, this is the sort of situation where the law of unintended consequences inevitably kicks in.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Am I the only one who likes there being a sort of dilemma between the penalty and going for the try? It adds a tactical element that you won't see if teams play and train exclusively to score tries. This, and other initiatives to speed up the game, risks turning rugby union into rugby league-lite.

Also, goal kicking' a spectacle and a skill and sometimes a moment of exquisite tension. The likes of Wilkinson and Halfpenny have become legends for their goalkicking, do we really want the kicker to become a bit of an add on? With this scoring system there would never be kickers of the same status again, I don't want that.

If we want a better flowing game, there are better areas to target. Allowing a minute to set up scrums/lineouts/penalties, and then longer to execute it and restart play, is silly. Too much of the 80 minutes is spent not in play. I want to see players jogging to scrums/lineouts/penalties and getting straight to it. I want people sprinting onto the pitch to hand the kicker the tee, so the kicker has a bit of time to take the kick. I want teams rushing back into their half for the kick-off.

All good suggestions. I'd suggest only allowing one attempt at getting a maul going - I certainly wouldn't want to lose the maul but I think at present the balance is wrong, and successful mauls are too easy

 

[RedruthRFC]

I much prefer the NRC scoring in Australia

Try = 5 points
Conversion = 3 points
Penalty Goal = 2 points
Dropped Goal = 2 points

The higher value of the conversion keeps the premium on try-scoring while maintaining the value of having a good goal-kicker

Particularly try scoring near the posts, which may go some way towards reducing the number of catch and drives.