What is the obsession with (insert expletive) conference system

[mdaclarke]

and the potential (ie non existent) Japanese market.

It isn't the number of teams that is killing super rugby it is the conference system. Each team should play each other once and have a table based on that. Super rugby was awesome until the conference system was introduced.

Don't need to reduce the number of teams as this will only encourage more players to go to Europe. There are enough good players in Europe for 6 7 8 or even 9 South African teams and probably 5 or 6 Australian teams and god only knows how many New Zealand teams.

Also give up on Japan. What ever market you are chasing it is never going to happen. It's a pipe dream. They don't belong in Super Rugby.

 

[SomeOke]

and the potential (ie non existent) Japanese market.

It isn't the number of teams that is killing super rugby it is the conference system. Each team should play each other once and have a table based on that. Super rugby was awesome until the conference system was introduced.

Don't need to reduce the number of teams as this will only encourage more players to go to Europe. There are enough good players in Europe for 6 7 8 or even 9 South African teams and probably 5 or 6 Australian teams and god only knows how many New Zealand teams.

Also give up on Japan. What ever market you are chasing it is never going to happen. It's a pipe dream. They don't belong in Super Rugby.

I can see why someone from the UK would think that but it's different down here for lot of reasons, but more importantly - Travel.
The logistics of jetting from one end of the Southern Hemisphere every second week would be a nightmare.

 

[ncurd]

Also out of all the untapped markets Japan pipe dreams it's the one with the most legitimate thinking behind it. High viewing figures compared to all traditional nations and a thirst for more Rugby. Some people talk about the USA becoming a force a decade or two from now but the reality is Japan are a lot closer to that.

 

[smartcooky]

and the potential (ie non existent) Japanese market.

Also give up on Japan. What ever market you are chasing it is never going to happen. It's a pipe dream. They don't belong in Super Rugby.

No market? Pfft! And you think there is a market for rugby in Melbourne or Perth. I have a sister-in-law who lives in Melbourne. She tells me that the Rebels are all but invisible there. If you're lucky, you will find half a column-inch buried at the bottom of page 53 of The Age (the main Melbourne Newspaper).... IF they win.

FYI, here is The Age Sport menu choices

• Ultimate Footy
• Cricket
• Soccer
• Racing
• Netball
• NRL
• Union
• Motorsport
• Gold Coast 2018
• Tennis
• Basketball
• Cycling
• Golf
• US Sports
• Athletics
• Boxing
• Swimming
• Sailing
• Scores

Do you see Rugby Union on that list? Not on your Nellie!

Have a look at the crowds attending Sunwolves games in Japan.... bigger crowds than any Aussie home matches so far this season. 22,000 for the match v the Bulls this weekend, and regularly crowds of 18,000 to 20,000 this season. This is more than we get to most matches in New Zealand!

Meanwhile, in Australia, the man and his dog sometimes has the company of a boy who accidentally walked into the stadium on his paper round.

It isn't the number of teams that is killing super rugby it is the conference system. Each team should play each other once and have a table based on that. Super rugby was awesome until the conference system was introduced.

No, its the number of weak teams that is damaging the credibility of the competition. Both Australia and South Africa have their talent spread too thin.

On current form, with a merit basde system using the top six teams, the playeon would involve

Stormers
Crusaders
Hurricanes
Chiefs
Lions
Sharks

NO Aussle teams

SARU and the ARU will never buy into a system that doesn't guarantee them home payoff games.

Don't need to reduce the number of teams as this will only encourage more players to go to Europe.

Utter rubbish. Did expending the competition discourage them from going... of course it didn't.

When the Melbourne Rebels first joined SR, there weren't enough players of a suitable standard in Australia, so the ARU had to give them dispensation to use more than the maximum allowable three foreign players in their squad. They imported players from Europe to make up the numbers... Danny Cipriani, Max Lahif, Michael Lipman (England), Jamie Hagan, Tom Sexton (Ireland), Gareth Delve )Wales) as well as Tom Chamberlain, Tamati Ellison, Scott Fuglistaller, Dan Hawkins, Hoani MacDonald, Kevin O'Neill, Jono Owen, Ged Robinson, Greg Somerville, Adam Thomson, and Jason Woodward (New Zealand).

There are enough good players in Europe for 6 7 8 or even 9 South African teams and probably 5 or 6 Australian teams and god only knows how many New Zealand teams.

And why would they want to come back when they are being paid 3 to 4 times what we can pay them?

As for South African players, you clearly have not heard of "transformation" and "race quotas". I suggest you talk to a few of the South African posters on this site.

 

[Ground We Won]

The Japanese market is really important and there's a World Cup there in 2019 since you may have forgotten. The Sunwolves got an excellent enthusiastic crowd vs The Bulls. They only seem to struggle with crowds when they play in Singapore. The Sunwolves deserve a place in this competition and have shown progress and there is endless viewer potential in the Japanese market. Have you got any figures or data to back up your claims they don't deserve to be there?

 

[smartcooky]

Also out of all the untapped markets Japan pipe dreams it's the one with the most legitimate thinking behind it. High viewing figures compared to all traditional nations and a thirst for more Rugby. Some people talk about the USA becoming a force a decade or two from now but the reality is Japan are a lot closer to that.

This, with bells on!!!

 

[mdaclarke]

If South Africa are going to pursue transformation, which is fine (although I don't think quotas are legal and I don't know world rugby and the IOC tolerate it), then they need all the teams they can get rather than losing teams.

I may live up north, by I don't understand why Australia, New Zealand and South Africa can't pay their players as much as in Europe. I watch both super rugby and European Rugby and the quality of Rugby in Super Rugby is in my opinion better than European Rugby. Super Rugby is on TV in the UK. I seems to me that SANZAAR are not managing their product properly as it should be the world's premier competition.

I admit I don't know how difficult the travel is but it seemed ok during the Super 12/14 years.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I think SANZAAR's main concern will be that Japan just retreats into its own Top league, TV money stagnates or declines, they become even poorer compared to the European leagues, and "star players" in Super Rugby become fringe internationals, with almost all international starters plying their trade in Europe for 5-10x the salary.

 

[smartcooky]

I may live up north, by I don't understand why Australia, New Zealand and South Africa can't pay their players as much as in Europe.

Two words.... Sugar Daddy.

In general, Rugby in the NH would lose money by the bucket load if it weren't for massively wealthy Sugar Daddies who prop up money-pit rugby clubs with their own personal finances. Take away people like Boudjellal, Walkinshaw, St Quinton, Wray, Lorenzetti and Goze, and NH clubs would never be able to offer the kinds of salaries that attracts players from the SH.

Another word...Population.

The population (and therefore the potential market) for rugby is far greater in Europe. The combined population of the Six Nations is 194 millions, where as the combines population of NZ, South Africa and Australia is 80 millions. It makes sense to add Argentina (41 millions) and Japan (127 millions)

I watch both super rugby and European Rugby and the quality of Rugby in Super Rugby is in my opinion better than European Rugby. Super Rugby is on TV in the UK. I seems to me that SANZAAR are not managing their product properly as it should be the world's premier competition.

It should be, but unfortunately, quality of product does not determine this in professional sport, money does

I admit I don't know how difficult the travel is but it seemed ok during the Super 12/14 years.

It is bloody difficult, and bloody expensive

If you support Leinster and you want to support your team in an away fixture at Aironi (which is about as far as you can travel in the Pro 12) it will cost you less than â'¬60 return to fly to Viadana and a flight time of 2½ hours. You can fly there on the morning of the match, watch the game, and fly home the same night.

If you support the Stormers and you want to support your team in an away fixture at the Crusaders it will cost you over â'¬1800 and a flight time of over 13 hours. You cannot fly there on the morning of the match, watch the game, and fly home the same night, so you have the additional cost of at least one, if not two, nights accommodation.

THAT is how hard, and how expensive travel is in this competition.

 

[ncurd]

It should be, but unfortunately, quality of product does not determine this in professional sport, money does.

Also the live aspect has a lot to do with how it plays in the European market, do you want to wake up in early hours to watch a Rugby match (if its in NZ or Aus) or would you rather watch it in the evening or afternoon with a beer. Because of that reason most European rugby fans watch the rugby that's on when its convenient for them not what is the better product. (Plus its not THAT much better we are not talking the difference between the NHL and ELITE here its more NHL and KHL and even then not all the best players are playing in Super Rugby). You won't convince people to watch a slightly better product at ungodly hours with players they barely know. So when you gactor in where the money is going the richer economies in Europe stick it there.

 

[mdaclarke]

I just hope the ANC get involve and try and strongarm the SARU into keeping the Kings

 

[SomeOke]

I just hope the ANC get involve and try and strongarm the SARU into keeping the Kings

Could go either way, we have a new minister of sport (the old one got promoted).

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm not really sure if mdaclarke is trolling here, or if he's genuinely so uninformed about the rest of the world outside of europe?

Does he not know of Jetlag when traveling through time zones?
Does he not know about the currency market and how poor the South African Rand is towards AUS/NZ $, The Pound and the Euro's?
Does he not know that if more and more of our top players travel to the NH, we are left with diluted second string players to work with?
Does he not know that the shortest flight between South Africa and closest part of Australia (Perth), is at least 9 hours non-stop?

His remark with regard to the ANC let's me think that he is indeed trolling here, as it is clear that he's just trying to stir the pot...

 

[mdaclarke]

Sorry I meant to say that I hope the ANC Don't try to strongarm the SARU into keeping the Kings in the competiton (was a typo). If they do then I hope the ARU and NZRU try and stop them.

I don't think it is a good idea for more players to go to Europe. Rugby needs a strong South Africa.

I was saying that I don't understand why the players can't be kept as South Africa and New Zealand are the two traditional Rugby Powers.

I admit I don't know much about southern hemisphere travel.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Sorry I meant to say that I hope the ANC Don't try to strongarm the SARU into keeping the Kings in the competiton (was a typo). If they do then I hope the ARU and NZRU try and stop them.

Doubt that will happen. the Kings in financial ruin and SARU is basically keeping them alive. Most of their players are being paid by SARU and not the franchise. It's a sinking ship, and a burden for SARU. They'll be happy to cut their losses.

I don't think it is a good idea for more players to go to Europe. Rugby needs a strong South Africa.

Well we can't do much about it now can we? Our currency is too poor to compete against the NH currencies, so there's is no way in stopping our players from going abroad.

I was saying that I don't understand why the players can't be kept as South Africa and New Zealand are the two traditional Rugby Powers.

Because of currency, and the amount we can pay them. Most Saffas playing in the NH return home as millionaire's, and can have a good life after rugby. It's the player's choice on where he wants to play. Neither SARU nor the NZRU can force someone to stay, if they don't have contract and any other obligations to stay in the country.

I admit I don't know much about southern hemisphere travel.

Clearly

 

[stus768]

No market in Japan??


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ld-cup-success-breaks-world-tv-viewing-record