Who's better? Lomu or Savea?

[SimonG]

New Lomu my ar$e

Lomu terrified the opposition to the extent he was singled out in the pre-match gameplan which involved having at least three swarm around him. Playing against that fabulous Aussie side in early 2000s in front of over 110,000 people..and he shone.

That fella today, playing against a pale shadow of what Australia were, in front of thousands of empty seats, loads of time and space with no swarming around him...and contributed zip.

I'm shaking my head in incredulity at the question being asked.

 

[psychic duck]

Savea barely touched the ball all match, and had no space what-so-ever whenever he got the ball. I'm certainly not saying he's better than Lomu, but judging him solely on a one-off match when he barely touched the ball isn't really fair....

Exactly. Every single winger in the history of the game will have had times when play just didn't go their way.

 

[big ginger 8]

Having just watched this fella today, ridiculous question.

Lomu played in an era of far better opposition for NZ, had multiple players swarm around him every single game, and he was still explosive, scoring tries by taking on half a dozen players singlehandedly.

This fella was completely anonymous today. Loads of time and space umpteen times and did nothing.

Obscene question.

So from the sounds of it you've never watched Savea before in any of the many games he's played at all levels but still say how boring modern rugby is. Do you watch modern rugby?

 

[Chikwa]

Turn back time and give Jonah two functioning kidneys instead of one, you'll see who is the better player.

And his defence? His ability under the high ball?

 

[nzlizard]

So from the sounds of it you've never watched Savea before in any of the many games he's played at all levels but still say how boring modern rugby is. Do you watch modern rugby?

Exactly, Lomu had games were he was quiet and the ball didn't go to him, so does Savea, but Savea has had incredible performances as well were he ripped up completely.

And his defence? His ability under the high ball?

If he was playing today those skills would be more drilled and if you remember early in Saveas career he was terrible under the high ball, apparently the Weliington backs coach and Jane did heaps of work with him to get him to were he is today.

The high ball skills Savea has were not natural but well coached and practiced. Good players like Savea and Lomu can add elements to their game.

 

[Canuck]

Savea barely touched the ball all match, and had no space what-so-ever whenever he got the ball. I'm certainly not saying he's better than Lomu, but judging him solely on a one-off match when he barely touched the ball isn't really fair....

Yep, otherwise you could judge Lomu off his Bledisloe cup performances in 1998 when he was largely a non-factor as well.

 

[SimonG]

And his defence? His ability under the high ball?

Who's defence? That bloke at the weekend whom Ashley-Cooper left for dead for his try as he made a simple step inside while the anonymous kiwi winger literally swung in the air trying to hold on.

Not only awful in attack against a pale shadow of an Aussie team but weak defensively. I can understand folk try to big up a modern player in an era devoid of stars, but the fella was poor, got plenty of time and space and there was no anticipation that he was ever going to something. Lomu was the complete oppositie where the crowd and commentators anticipated something special when he got hands on the ball;

20 year old Lomu against a top class Australia team,



#1.Lomu, #2.Campese...in that order are the two best wingers in the last 25 years.

 

[psychic duck]

Who's defence? That bloke at the weekend whom Ashley-Cooper left for dead for his try as he made a simple step inside while the anonymous kiwi winger literally swung in the air trying to hold on.

Not only awful in attack against a pale shadow of an Aussie team but weak defensively. I can understand folk try to big up a modern player in an era devoid of stars, but the fella was poor, got plenty of time and space and there was no anticipation that he was ever going to something. Lomu was the complete oppositie where the crowd and commentators anticipated something special when he got hands on the ball; .

This is a dumb post. I defended Lomu against some of the clichés thrown at him earlier in the thread from people who probably didn't watch his entire career or forgot, but now your just cherry picking instances fresh from memory against Savea which is completely unfair.

It's hardly as if Lomu never had any defensive errors. In fact, he was once left for dead by a simple sidestep from Tom Bowman. Every winger has matches where the ball doesn't go their way, including Lomu.



Also an aside, I don't think this era is particularly 'devoid of stars' to be honest.

 

[SimonG]

That every winger gets done was my point. I responded to a comment on the subject of susceptible defence, 48 hours after the kiwi winger got done with a simple step.

Lomu is incomparable to anyone today. The closest to him as regards talent and public anticipation with ball in hand in the last 25 yrs was Campese.

There is a lack of star power in the modern game. A player when they get possession there is an instant sense of anticipation and excitement and the crowd noise increases. The game is devoid of a superstar. There are two or three in the NRL.

 

[psychic duck]

There is a lack of star power in the modern game. A player when they get possession there is an instant sense of anticipation and excitement and the crowd noise increases. The game is devoid of a superstar. There are two or three in the NRL.

Right, so why don't you go and watch that with their 'superstars' instead then if excites you?

 

[Gavin]

There is a lack of star power in the modern game. A player when they get possession there is an instant sense of anticipation and excitement and the crowd noise increases.

Lack of star power my arse. To name a few:

Shane Williams, George North, Simon Zebo, Wesley Fofana, Christian Wade, Quade Cooper, Willie Le Roux, SBW.

Certainly many more.

 

[TheSaffycen]

That every winger gets done was my point. I responded to a comment on the subject of susceptible defence, 48 hours after the kiwi winger got done with a simple step.

Lomu is incomparable to anyone today. The closest to him as regards talent and public anticipation with ball in hand in the last 25 yrs was Campese.

There is a lack of star power in the modern game. A player when they get possession there is an instant sense of anticipation and excitement and the crowd noise increases. The game is devoid of a superstar. There are two or three in the NRL.

Not going to lie when I have been at games everytime Manu gets the ball people start standing up. He is a guy when you have no idea when he has the ball if he will be stopped or run over 4 guys.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Lack of star power my arse. To name a few:

Shane Williams, George North, Simon Zebo, Wesley Fofana, Christian Wade, Quade Cooper, Willie Le Roux, SBW.

Certainly many more.

SBW?

Ewwww yuck.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/10652088/Mains-Sonny-Bill-Williams-is-a-mercenary

Laurie Maines agrees with Hansen.

 

[SimonG]

Lack of star power my arse. To name a few:

Shane Williams, George North, Simon Zebo, Wesley Fofana, Christian Wade, Quade Cooper, Willie Le Roux, SBW.

Certainly many more.

Gavin Gavin Gavin...stars as in...superstar.

The names listed you could add another 200 of similar ilk, in other words using your criteria almost every professional is a "star".

There are currently no players in Union that could be labelled a superstar. One who gets the crowd on their feet in anticipation of what they are going to do next. They receive the ball and nstantly the commentator's voice rises...just listen to the Lomu clips. The voice is different, excited, and the crowd noise increases. The last one we had was a young O'Driscoll. That Lions 2001 series he made about 8 clean breaks of the Aussie defence in the first test alone with sumptuous side steps, dummies etc. Last for England was Jason Robinson. Burgess has got me excited do I'm hoping he gets the platform to be the next one for them.

Sonny Bill, while clearly an immense talent, is back and forth between codes. He doesn't do enough for me to warrant the highest label. Carter is a star in so many ways, but he ain't a player who will leave you on the edge of your seat. He's class no question...but there isn't the wow factor.

Quade Cooper is far too hit and miss to be anywhere near superstar status. It's Carlos Spencer all over again.

I think the biggest problem is Union doesn't lend itself to stars in that it's becoming more restrictive with its bulked up brutish players and low risk forward dominated strategy. The French used to have a team full of mavericks when they played with freedom. Such a player wouldn't be utilised in the way they would have been in the past.

 

[ak47]

Its ISRAEL FOLAU. The greatest of them all

http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/5767-The-Israel-Folau-Thread/page5

 

[Kapa O Pango]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/CurrieCup/Laurie-Mains-chats-to-Sport24-20141022

Laurie Mains: "Jeff Wilson, Andrew Mehrtens and Bunce were a few of the more gifted players that I coached, but they didn't have the physical prowess that Lomu possessed. Because he was so big, strong and fast, and boasted an excellent side-step, he was almost impossible to tackle one-on-one. To make him special, which he was, as a team we had to devise all sorts of moves that ended up with Jonah getting the ball in space. He was a player of tremendous power, but I don't think that anybody pretended he was great on defence. The All Blacks have a better winger now in Julian Savea. Savea is the more complete footballer. While he possesses pace and power, he is much stronger on defence than Lomu ever was and goes looking for work. However, one of the great rugby tragedies is that when Jonah should have been hitting his peak, he was struck down with a kidney disease. Who knows how good he may have been?"

 

[Flyingdolphins]

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail...on-during-the-blues-rugby-news-photo/55787736

Yeah Lomu is good so is Savea too bad they can't fly. Rokocoko asked me once at the blues training Rups how do you do your thing can you teach me, I said bro just pretend you're flying and the try line has chineese take aways and buffet mann or and some grog possibly a bit of weed to mann lol......

 

[tituslechmakus]

Gavin Gavin Gavin...stars as in...superstar.

The names listed you could add another 200 of similar ilk, in other words using your criteria almost every professional is a "star".

There are currently no players in Union that could be labelled a superstar. One who gets the crowd on their feet in anticipation of what they are going to do next. They receive the ball and nstantly the commentator's voice rises...just listen to the Lomu clips. The voice is different, excited, and the crowd noise increases. The last one we had was a young O'Driscoll. That Lions 2001 series he made about 8 clean breaks of the Aussie defence in the first test alone with sumptuous side steps, dummies etc. Last for England was Jason Robinson. Burgess has got me excited do I'm hoping he gets the platform to be the next one for them.

Sonny Bill, while clearly an immense talent, is back and forth between codes. He doesn't do enough for me to warrant the highest label. Carter is a star in so many ways, but he ain't a player who will leave you on the edge of your seat. He's class no question...but there isn't the wow factor.

Quade Cooper is far too hit and miss to be anywhere near superstar status. It's Carlos Spencer all over again.

I think the biggest problem is Union doesn't lend itself to stars in that it's becoming more restrictive with its bulked up brutish players and low risk forward dominated strategy. The French used to have a team full of mavericks when they played with freedom. Such a player wouldn't be utilised in the way they would have been in the past.

Come on, isn't Dan Carter good enough to be in those superstars you mentionned ? He's for me the best fly half ever in rugby history, shortly followed by Wilkinson ! What about Richie Mc Caw ? And Bryan Habana ?

Certainly there are less superstars now than before, I must admit, but why ? Surely because the general level in world rugby has increased, leaving players who were way over others 10 or 20 years ago, less numerous than previously.

 

[big ginger 8]

Come on, isn't Dan Carter good enough to be in those superstars you mentionned ? He's for me the best fly half ever in rugby history, shortly followed by Wilkinson ! What about Richie Mc Caw ? And Bryan Habana ?

Certainly there are less superstars now than before, I must admit, but why ? Surely because the general level in world rugby has increased, leaving players who were way over others 10 or 20 years ago, less numerous than previously.

Don't engage him.