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why did the north hemisphere teams play so badly?

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lexave333

Guest
france, england, wales or ireland play too slowly. they are deficient in physical and tactical domain but i don't know why and you do you know?
 
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Marco Polo

Guest
Partially to do with the timing of the tournament it being pre season for the NH, however that is having a relatively minor effect in the grand scheme of thisng. I disagree that they are nescessarily physically that far behind the SH team and have caught up quite substantially in that regard in the last 10 years or so since professionalism. The main problem is that on average the skill levels, particularily the forwards are light years behind those of the best SH teams.
 
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BOKean

Guest
the northern hemisphere loose forwards are sooo slow... and they arent the biggest guys around either!

i think this is a key contributing factor

france on the other hand has a bit of speed - nyanga/chabal etc..
but the england forwards are as slow as molasses on a hot summers day!
 
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Prestwick

Guest
Actually, to be fair, considering that their Union is run by abject imbeciles, that they've scared off anyone who wants to inject money into the sport and have more or less wrecked any support outside of Edinburgh (and possibly inside of Edinburgh) and considering that they sent a 2nd XV to face New Zealand.....Scotland have done pretty damn well this World Cup. They haven't had any scares to mention of so far and even though they didn't have a remote chance of scoring against the All Blacks, they were tenatious and robust in defence and caused them some problems which in turn caused some mistakes and allot of frustration.

But, while Scotland haven't actually done that badly at all and are cruising quietly but happily to a Quater Final place (and possibly a Semi Final place too if they get the right opponent), the rest of the Northern Hemisphere have been shambolic.

You could blame it on allot of things but to be honest you simply can't explain it. Be it England who have had the worst preparation or Ireland and Italy who have had the best to France and Wales who sit in between the two, the performances of the other five NH nations have been absolutely diabolical in their starts this World Cup.
 
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stormmaster1

Guest
France have had one poor performance, and that i think was against an opponent that has beat them most of the time in recent years and they got the mindset wrong. Ireland have had a settled team for too long and seem to have stopped making progress. Couple that with some of their core players not performing, possible team bonding issues (probably nonsence but who knows) and it's a great recipe not to play well. Wales, Scotland and Italy have performed about as well as i expected given their recent form. The other aspect is also that some of the poor performances were due to the opposition.
 
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36crazyfist

Guest
i've got a few reasons:

1. you've got 3 previous winners of world cups, competing in the tri-nations, which makes for a lot better practice, than playing in the six nations.

2. the best players from these teams compete yearly in the super 14, this help with new talent. honestly the heineken cup cannot compete against the super 14.

3. the SH teams are a lot more used to scoring tries, because of the bonus system in the super 14, and domestic leagues. in certain pools we know see how important bonus points is.

4.
...they are deficient in physical...[/b]
i must agree. if you look at SH teams, they have a lot more backs around and over the 100kg mark. the NH do have big guys, but not as many. imagine a sivivatu/tuqiri/pietersen (99kg/100kg/95kg) vs shane williams/dominici/webster (81kg/83kg/89). ok, there are big guys, lamont brother, sackey etc. but overall, SH players in general are bigger.

5. there is also the factor, that NH are only starting now, and SH are more than half way through the season. think this can be an disadvantage for both. SH are just lucky that they have no real injuries or losses. think the boks lost big with pierre spies pulling out.

but still, after considering all of this, if you want to be labelled a professional player, you must play 100% all times, consistently...
 
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SaintsFan_Webby

Guest
3. the SH teams are a lot more used to scoring tries, because of the bonus system in the super 14, and domestic leagues. in certain pools we know see how important bonus points is.[/b]



Hate to burst your bubble, but the bonus point system has been used for a number of years in all the top flight NH domestic competitions. Including the apparently inferior Heineken Cup.



A lot of the NH sides are going through a bad patch, while the SH sides have all hit a good level. Things change. Look at the sport during the last World Cup - South Africa were reeling, New Zealand had visible frailties and people were saying Australia didn't have enough flair to win anything. On the other hand, teams like England and France were playing brilliantly.



In general, the SH are playing the best at the moment, but this won't last forever.
 
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shtove

Guest
The best of the HEC is better than the best of the S14, in my view. This year Leicester, Stade Francais and Wasps were clinical and powerful - very impressive - while the SA derby was a bit of a shambles.

And Australia give the lie to the point about bigger backs.

I guess it's down to the margins gained at the breakdown - Shaun Edwards wrote last week about how the SH teams in 03 didn't give enough attention to this area, but that reffing style in the S14 has changed since then and the players are drilled to try several times at every breakdown because they won't be penalised.

None of which explains Ireland 14 Georgia 10.
 
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Mr.cyclopede

Guest
As the both different system, the English/French based on clubs, and the Irish/Scottish/wales made of franchises, are present in thr NH, no explanations to look for on this side.

Now if we have a look on the calendar of matches in a year for a NH player compared to a SH one, this one is more than double loaded. Many people here indicate that it have a non-negligeable influence.
 
3

36crazyfist

Guest
...while the SA derby was a bit of a shambles... [/b]

agreed, but still you can't judge a league on the basis of one final?

ok, rugby is a team sport, not individual, but individuals can make one hell of a difference...

2006

* IRB International Player of the Year: Richie McCaw (New Zealand)
* IRB International Team of the Year: New Zealand
* IRB International Coach of the Year: Graham Henry (New Zealand)
* IRB International U19 Player of the Year: Josh Holmes (Australia)
* IRB International U21 Player of the Year: Lionel Beauxis (France)
* IRB International Sevens Team of the Year: Fiji
* IRB International Sevens Player of the Year: Uale Mai (Samoa)

2005

* IRB International Player of the Year: Daniel Carter (New Zealand)
* IRB International Team of the Year: New Zealand
* IRB International Coach of the Year: Graham Henry (New Zealand)
* IRB International U19 Player of the Year: Isaia Toeava (New Zealand)
* IRB International U21 Player of the Year: Tatafu Polota-Nau (Australia)
* IRB International Sevens Team of the Year: Fiji
* IRB International Sevens Player of the Year: Orene Ai’i (New Zealand)

2004

* IRB International Player of the Year: Schalk Burger (South Africa)
* IRB International Team of the Year, in association with Sodexho: South Africa
* IRB International Coach of the Year: Jake White (South Africa)
* IRB International U19 Player of the Year: Jeremy Thrush (New Zealand)
* IRB International U21 Player of the Year in association with Waterford Crystal: Jerome Kaino (New Zealand)
* IRB International Sevens Team of the Year: New Zealand
* IRB International Sevens Player of the Year: Simon Amor (England)[/b]

since 2003 after england won, only 2 out of a possible 21 awards went to the NH.

Now if we have a look on the calendar of matches in a year for a NH player compared to a SH one, this one is more than double loaded. Many people here indicate that it have a non-negligeable influence.[/b]

don't really get coverage, only the big matches in the later parts of the heineken cup.

seeing how most disagree on why, at least we agree something is wrong. SH finished top in all the pools, so at the moment it's not looking good for NH...
 
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super12

Guest
I think france, england, wales or ireland play too slowly because they are not cheating during this world cup.

For exemple all Argentina's team or Mc Caw are cheater on the ruck
 
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HOMERJ

Guest
The NH teams have fallen further behind if you ask me, the ball handling skills of the forwards of the SH sides is far above what the NH have on offer (apart from France) Forwards win games and the backs dictate by how much! what point was Irelands top class backline with forwars who have the reaction skills of a 70 year old!
 
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Maccaweeny

Guest
It's all to do with the Earth's gravitational axis, the psycho-sexual makeup of men in the southern hemisphere is influenced by undetectable magnetic forces from the moon, making them more prone to gay activities in general, like tacking muscly black men wearing tiny shorts.

'nuff said :D
 
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shazbooger

Guest
It's all to do with the Earth's gravitational axis, the psycho-sexual makeup of men in the southern hemisphere is influenced by undetectable magnetic forces from the moon, making them more prone to gay activities in general, like tacking muscly black men wearing tiny shorts. [/b]
Gets my vote

your opinion that is, not the tiny shorts bit
 
K

KZNSharksFan

Guest
The best of the HEC is better than the best of the S14, in my view. This year Leicester, Stade Francais and Wasps were clinical and powerful - very impressive - while the SA derby was a bit of a shambles.

[/b]

The Bulls and Sharks were extremely clinical and powerful this year <_< . What aspects of the final did you think were a shambles?
 
J

jawmalawm24

Guest
NH teams kick the ball away way too much or they drop kick it. Thats why their running game sux and they should have a go rather than have a fear of holding the ball and kicking it to the opposition.
 
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Brodizzle

Guest
<div class='quotemain'>
The best of the HEC is better than the best of the S14, in my view. This year Leicester, Stade Francais and Wasps were clinical and powerful - very impressive - while the SA derby was a bit of a shambles.

[/b]

The Bulls and Sharks were extremely clinical and powerful this year <_< . What aspects of the final did you think were a shambles?
[/b][/quote]
I don't think he understands that when two powerful SA teams play against each other it is savagely very South African eg. a pretty huge arm wrestle, not much open play...I would assume anyway...
 
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