World Rugby confirms officials made errors in Ireland's shock Rugby World Cup defeat to Japan

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yes Angus Gardner has made mistakes, but he isn't going to improve by being criticised publicly and dropped for games during a tournament.

The world cup is not the stage to learn and he was judged to be inadequate in two games, he deserves the criticism and to be dropped.

I also don't understand how it is different from a player having a bad game, they're both professionals who performed inadequately and shouldn't get away with that without facing some form of scrutiny. I think rugby's "respect the ref" ethos goes far beyond what is good for the game, a ref should be the authority, and be respected, within the 80 minutes and we shouldn't get to the point where players shout and gesture aggressively towards a ref like soccer. But attitudes like your one are a sizeable factor as to why we have absolutely **** referees at the very top of our game, refs are more or less comfortable knowing as long as they don't **** up to massive extents they'll avoid criticism and that's not much of an incentive to improve. Hold someone culpable for their Inadequacies and they'll either sink or swim, either are better for the game than having poor refs resting on their laurels.

Edit: Managed to quote the wrong person somehow, obviously meant in reply to you, @Reiser99

 

[General Melchett]

Yes Angus Gardner has made mistakes, but he isn't going to improve by being criticised publicly and dropped for games during a tournament. Refs are different to players and it's not the same as a player having a bad game.

If nobody calls out his mistakes then how do we know that he will receive constructive criticism in private and thus improve his performance? I'm generally not a fan of coaches criticising refs either but if Schmidt hadn't said anything then I'm not convinced Gardner would have received any criticism which means he may not actually learn and improve. Also this is the RWC, not a training academy for refs. Mistakes like this should be few and far between at this level. I can't ever recall a TMO or touch judge intervening without prompting at this level and telling a ref that an offside decision he made on field was wrong.

 

[Reiser99]

Hmm again some good points I generally agree with. I don't think refs should be above criticism and I guess as you say if standards aren't improving then WR's post game review system isn't working. However it's also impossible for a ref to make no mistakes. I feel there needs to be a balance and no public criticism is wrong, but Schmidt highlighting specific mistakes is also wrong as I still feel it could lead to more coaches and players doing it and as I said that's a slippery slope. I agree there needs to be an improvement, but not if it means that refs are afraid to make calls.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Imagine if Eddie said this

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I agree Japan should have won they were the better team on the day it still doesn't take away the fact that if this was a knock out game a teams tournament would be over due to 3 out of 4 offside penalties being bullshit. 3 out of 4, and to suggest that this happens in every game but the coaches keep quite is, I'm sorry, absolutely retarded.

The nature of the game is there will always be far more than 3 decisions that are wrong, so you put those three in that context and you realise they are not worth comaining about. Yes they can change a game, but so can all those other decisions that weren't mentioned. And I'm not saying referees shoildnt be encoiraged to improve, I just thought this was in poor taste.

Also, the word retarded in a derogatory sense is considered an offence by many. Please refrain.

Also, I'm shocked to discover coaches can influence which ref they get. That's borderline corruption

 

[General Melchett]

Also, I'm shocked to discover coaches can influence which ref they get. That's borderline corruption

Almost as corrupt as the home nation benefiting from favourable turnarounds against all of their key pool competitors, questionable officiating against Ireland (offside penalties) & Samoa (scrum feed) (Scotland still to come) and not having to play any games in the Kobe 'slippery when wet/hot' sauna.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

If nobody calls out his mistakes then how do we know that he will receive constructive criticism in private and thus improve his performance? I'm generally not a fan of coaches criticising refs either but if Schmidt hadn't said anything then I'm not convinced Gardner would have received any criticism which means he may not actually learn and improve. Also this is the RWC, not a training academy for refs. Mistakes like this should be few and far between at this level. I can't ever recall a TMO or touch judge intervening without prompting at this level and telling a ref that an offside decision he made on field was wrong.

Refs games get reviewed, and that determines where they sit in the pecking order. A coach saying something shouldn't influence this, because it will never be fair and unbiased and some coaches will have more sway than others.

Almost as corrupt as the home nation benefiting from favourable turnarounds against all of their key pool competitors, questionable officiating against Ireland (offside penalties) & Samoa (scrum feed) (Scotland still to come) and not having to play any games in the Kobe 'slippery when wet/hot' sauna.

Whether or not what you say is true, Does it change the point that coaches shouldn't have a say in which refs they get, generally speaking?

Speaking of favourable turnarounds, all the tier one teams have it over anyone else, because they have squad depth so can afford to play second string teams. So the tournament is designed to favour them.

 

[bushytop]

Poite still ok to ref Oz tho

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The world cup is not the stage to learn and he was judged to be inadequate in two games, he deserves the criticism and to be dropped.

I also don't understand how it is different from a player having a bad game, they're both professionals who performed inadequately and shouldn't get away with that without facing some form of scrutiny. I think rugby's "respect the ref" ethos goes far beyond what is good for the game, a ref should be the authority, and be respected, within the 80 minutes and we shouldn't get to the point where players shout and gesture aggressively towards a ref like soccer. But attitudes like your one are a sizeable factor as to why we have absolutely **** referees at the very top of our game, refs are more or less comfortable knowing as long as they don't **** up to massive extents they'll avoid criticism and that's not much of an incentive to improve. Hold someone culpable for their Inadequacies and they'll either sink or swim, either are better for the game than having poor refs resting on their laurels.

Edit: Managed to quote the wrong person somehow, obviously meant in reply to you, @Reiser99

lol. Yeah that confused the hell out of me when I saw that. I thought I didn't write those words.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Michael Cheika wants to know your location

 

[bushytop]

Michael Cheika wants to know your location

Michael Cheika wants to know the rules of Rugby.

 

[General Melchett]

Whether or not what you say is true, Does it change the point that coaches shouldn't have a say in which refs they get, generally speaking?

Speaking of favourable turnarounds, all the tier one teams have it over anyone else, because they have squad depth so can afford to play second string teams. So the tournament is designed to favour them.

Coaches don't have a say in which refs they get. Schmidt can have a dig at Gardner's performance in an interview as much as he likes but when all is said and done World Rugby can still choose to ignore him and appoint who they like.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Michael Cheika wants to know the laws of Rugby.

FTFY

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Coaches don't have a say in which refs they get. Schmidt can have a dig at Gardner's performance in an interview as much as he likes but when all is said and done World Rugby can still choose to ignore him and appoint who they like.

Ahh, well I hope you are correct, but another poster said otherwise.

The nature of the game is there will always be far more than 3 decisions that are wrong, so you put those three in that context and you realise they are not worth comaining about. Yes they can change a game, but so can all those other decisions that weren't mentioned. And I'm not saying referees shoildnt be encoiraged to improve, I just thought this was in poor taste.

Also, the word retarded in a derogatory sense is considered an offence by many. Please refrain.

Also, I'm shocked to discover coaches can influence which ref they get. That's borderline corruption

@profitius what is it you dislike?

 

[Jockstap]

The nature of the game is there will always be far more than 3 decisions that are wrong, so you put those three in that context and you realise they are not worth comaining about. Yes they can change a game, but so can all those other decisions that weren't mentioned. And I'm not saying referees shoildnt be encoiraged to improve, I just thought this was in poor taste.

Also, the word retarded in a derogatory sense is considered an offence by many. Please refrain.

Also, I'm shocked to discover coaches can influence which ref they get. That's borderline corruption

I only really come and go on this forum during match days so can some of the regulars let me know if this guy is a known troll?

 

[die_mole]

Do people On this forum really think international referees don't have an extensive review and debriefing process?

Each game has multiple teams of reviewers and very rarely do they have a consensus about a referees performance.

World rugby shares the reviews of every games with the coaches as a way keeping a good relationship between teams and referees. Every game teams get told that referees made mistakes. Every game the referee gets told what mistakes they made and have film study over their last performance.

And that is just for American rugby championship matches (friends with a referee in that comp). I'd imagine the level of review the referees go through at World Cup is much more intense.

Joe Schmidt decided to leak the parts of the report that made angus look bad to the media. Everyone watching it knew angus made mistakes in that game, Schmidt releasing that information changes absolutely nothing but the way world rugby looks at him.

 

[bushytop]

I only really come and go on this forum during match days so can some of the regulars let me know if this guy is a known troll?

No @Umaga's Witness is just opinionated... like all the greats . That will some times rub up against the opinions of others though.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I have to hold my hand up that I didn't pick up on Gardner's errors in realtime, although we dont know if the report also identified errors he might of made that went against Japan in the first 20mins.

I'd say I'm a little disappointed Schmidt and dont think it speaks to him handling the pressure particularly well, as it is out of character for him. I also dont think publicly criticising referees is a way to improve refereeing standards. More a way paralysing them with fear and making them consider alternative careers.

I also don't think it will help Ireland to get favourable refereeing treatment compared to the Japan game. There are 101 things happening on a rugby field every minute that Ireland could be legitimately pinged for if a referee wanted to make a point or show some solidarity. But I would hope no referee would be that petty.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Do people On this forum really think international referees don't have an extensive review and debriefing process?

Each game has multiple teams of reviewers and very rarely do they have a consensus about a referees performance.

World rugby shares the reviews of every games with the coaches as a way keeping a good relationship between teams and referees. Every game teams get told that referees made mistakes. Every game the referee gets told what mistakes they made and have film study over their last performance.

And that is just for American rugby championship matches (friends with a referee in that comp). I'd imagine the level of review the referees go through at World Cup is much more intense.

Joe Schmidt decided to leak the parts of the report that made angus look bad to the media. Everyone watching it knew angus made mistakes in that game, Schmidt releasing that information changes absolutely nothing but the way world rugby looks at him.

It absolutely decreases the chance of Gardner reffing Ireland again in this tournament. It's easy not to appoint him now and they hardly want the headlines.

I have to hold my hand up that I didn't pick up on Gardner's errors in realtime, although we dont know if the report also identified errors he might of made that went against Japan in the first 20mins.

I'd say I'm a little disappointed Schmidt and dont think it speaks to him handling the pressure particularly well, as it is out of character for him. I also dont think publicly criticising referees is a way to improve refereeing standards. More a way paralysing them with fear and making them consider alternative careers.

I also don't think it will help Ireland to get favourable refereeing treatment compared to the Japan game. There are 101 things happening on a rugby field every minute that Ireland could be legitimately pinged for if a referee wanted to make a point or show some solidarity. But I would hope no referee would be that petty.

Schmidt has criticised refs before, he's actually "leaked" world rugby's report on ref mistakes before too, although I can't remember the the exact circumstances.

He didn't do this to make excuses like.

 

[big ginger 8]

It absolutely decreases the chance of Gardner reffing Ireland again in this tournament. It's easy not to appoint him now and they hardly want the headlines.


Schmidt has criticised refs before, he's actually "leaked" world rugby's report on ref mistakes before too, although I can't remember the the exact circumstances.

He didn't do this to make excuses like.

The match that didn't happen in November 2013.