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World XV revisited

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChiefsFan @ Nov 26 2009, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
All Blacks are (one of) the best team(s) in the world, though they really only have a few players who would deserved to be said as the best in their position. The All Blacks have strength across the board, with no weaknesses, which is where they typically win over teams, they can change their tactics.[/b]
I was talking in terms of world rankings. They are ranked the highest team in the world.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 26 2009, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Nov 26 2009, 04:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How is Brussouw out of position? He plays 6 for the Cheetahs and South Africa.[/b]
Well, you have 2 open side flankers. 6 and 7 in South Africa are different from 6 and 7 anywhere else.


1.Tony Woodcock
2.kevin Mealamu
3.Carly Hayman
4.Brad Thorn
5.Ali Williams
6.Jerome Kaino
7.Richie McCaw
8.Rodney So'oialo
9.Peri Weepu
10.Daniel Carter
11.Sitivini Sivivatu
12.Ma'a Nonu
13.Conrad Smith
14.Joe Rokocoko
15.Mils Muliaina

16.Andrew Hore
17.John Afoa
18.Adam Thompson
19.Jimmy Cowan
20.Luke McAlister
21.Richard Kahui
22.Cory Jane

While I realise this may not be the world XV, it is closer to the token 1 or 2 All Blacks that seem to be put into peoples squads. Of the best 22 players in people actually believe that only 1 of those are in the All Blacks?!
Not taking away anything from the other teams, and many positions I agree with, but be a bit more realistic.
[/b][/quote]

you really take the cake. You really telling me a team that can't beat the Springboks and hasn't set the world alight this autumn has a right to have a lot of players in the world XV?

Let's look logically:

front row - Woodcock makes a strong case; the others are nothing special.
2nd row - at least Botha, Matfield and O'Connell are far ahead.
back row - McCaw is in everyone's team. no one else is anything special.
9 - Cowan is average.
10 - Carter is on everyone's list.
centres - Nonu is good but not quite good enough. Conrad Smith is world class but for O'Driscoll who is out of this world.
wings - Sivivatu has had a shaky year, excellent in patches and poor in others. no one else sticks their hand up.
fullback - Muliaini is awesome.

So, 3 players is about fair from my XV.

Don't really see what the issue is.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Nov 26 2009, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 26 2009, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Nov 26 2009, 04:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How is Brussouw out of position? He plays 6 for the Cheetahs and South Africa.[/b]
Well, you have 2 open side flankers. 6 and 7 in South Africa are different from 6 and 7 anywhere else.


1.Tony Woodcock
2.kevin Mealamu
3.Carly Hayman
4.Brad Thorn
5.Ali Williams
6.Jerome Kaino
7.Richie McCaw
8.Rodney So'oialo
9.Peri Weepu
10.Daniel Carter
11.Sitivini Sivivatu
12.Ma'a Nonu
13.Conrad Smith
14.Joe Rokocoko
15.Mils Muliaina

16.Andrew Hore
17.John Afoa
18.Adam Thompson
19.Jimmy Cowan
20.Luke McAlister
21.Richard Kahui
22.Cory Jane

While I realise this may not be the world XV, it is closer to the token 1 or 2 All Blacks that seem to be put into peoples squads. Of the best 22 players in people actually believe that only 1 of those are in the All Blacks?!
Not taking away anything from the other teams, and many positions I agree with, but be a bit more realistic.
[/b][/quote]

you really take the cake. You really telling me a team that can't beat the Springboks and hasn't set the world alight this autumn has a right to have a lot of players in the world XV?

Let's look logically:

front row - Woodcock makes a strong case; the others are nothing special.
2nd row - at least Botha, Matfield and O'Connell are far ahead.
back row - McCaw is in everyone's team. no one else is anything special.
9 - Cowan is average.
10 - Carter is on everyone's list.
centres - Nonu is good but not quite good enough. Conrad Smith is world class but for O'Driscoll who is out of this world.
wings - Sivivatu has had a shaky year, excellent in patches and poor in others. no one else sticks their hand up.
fullback - Muliaini is awesome.

So, 3 players is about fair from my XV.

Don't really see what the issue is.
[/b][/quote]
No, I understand that there are better players in many other decisions, however remarks such as "can't beat South Africa" seem pointless, as New Zealand has consistantly been the top Tri Nations team excpet this year, and yet the list of players on these lists still remain with few New Zealanders.

Noidsay, Munster Man, Kicklikeaprop, KZNSharksFan all put Brussow ahead of McCaw, the only player that is consistanly on anyones list is Carter, and for some odd reason Mils Muliaina on the wing. I'd rate Nonu on a good day above Roberts, as Nonu was Super 14's highest try scorer and the AB's most dangerous player this year, however I may be alone in arguing that. And Sivivatu on the wing instead of Mils makes more sence with Mils at Fullback. Also Cory Jane has been NZ's best wing this year it seems, and yet people still rate Sivivatu over him. I just don't understand peoples logic. Woodcock I'd rate higher then Jenkins (could be bias), but he hasn't had a great year, so I can understand leaving him out.

By the way, my previous list was more out of sarcasm then my actual opinion.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Nov 26 2009, 03:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
based on this year and heavily influenced by AIs

1. Jenkins
2. du Plessis
3. Castrogiovanni
4. Botha
5. Matfield
6. McCaw
7. Brussow
8. Harinordoquy
9. du Preez
10. Carter
11. Williams
12. Giteau
13. O'Driscoll
14. Clerc
15. Muliaina

Picked 2 fetchers because Brussow and McCaw are the standout flankers in world rugby atm, plus McCaw does the job of a blindside as well. Hill and Back weren't so bad together!!! Honourable mention for Dusautoir.

Lee Byrne misses out through injury.[/b]

Agreed, except my wingers would be Habana and then anyone between Sivivatu, Bowe, Heymans and, this is a bit left field but, Cory Jane has really impressed me.
Botha has had a somewhat dissapointing AI for his standards and might loose out to the young French lock whose name I keep forgetting for form ATM.

Bench:

Barcella
Smit
Frenchie
Elsom
Dupuy
Roberts (Giteau to move inside)
Kearney
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormer2010 @ Nov 27 2009, 01:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Nov 26 2009, 03:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
based on this year and heavily influenced by AIs

1. Jenkins
2. du Plessis
3. Castrogiovanni
4. Botha
5. Matfield
6. McCaw
7. Brussow
8. Harinordoquy
9. du Preez
10. Carter
11. Williams
12. Giteau
13. O'Driscoll
14. Clerc
15. Muliaina

Picked 2 fetchers because Brussow and McCaw are the standout flankers in world rugby atm, plus McCaw does the job of a blindside as well. Hill and Back weren't so bad together!!! Honourable mention for Dusautoir.

Lee Byrne misses out through injury.[/b]

Agreed, except my wingers would be Habana and then anyone between Sivivatu, Bowe, Heymans and, this is a bit left field but, Cory Jane has really impressed me.
Botha has had a somewhat dissapointing AI for his standards and might loose out to the young French lock whose name I keep forgetting for form ATM.

Bench:

Barcella
Smit
Frenchie
Elsom
Dupuy
Roberts (Giteau to move inside)
Kearney
[/b][/quote]
Thank you you beautiful human being.
 
1. Benn Robinson
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. ???
4. Brad Thorn
5. Victor Matfield
6. Thierry Dusatoir
7. Richie McCaw
8. Imanol Harinordoquy
9. Will Genia
10. Dan Carter
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Sitiveni Sivivatu
15. Rob Kearney
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Nov 26 2009, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 26 2009, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Nov 26 2009, 04:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How is Brussouw out of position? He plays 6 for the Cheetahs and South Africa.[/b]
Well, you have 2 open side flankers. 6 and 7 in South Africa are different from 6 and 7 anywhere else.


1.Tony Woodcock
2.kevin Mealamu
3.Carly Hayman
4.Brad Thorn
5.Ali Williams
6.Jerome Kaino
7.Richie McCaw
8.Rodney So'oialo
9.Peri Weepu
10.Daniel Carter
11.Sitivini Sivivatu
12.Ma'a Nonu
13.Conrad Smith
14.Joe Rokocoko
15.Mils Muliaina

16.Andrew Hore
17.John Afoa
18.Adam Thompson
19.Jimmy Cowan
20.Luke McAlister
21.Richard Kahui
22.Cory Jane

While I realise this may not be the world XV, it is closer to the token 1 or 2 All Blacks that seem to be put into peoples squads. Of the best 22 players in people actually believe that only 1 of those are in the All Blacks?!
Not taking away anything from the other teams, and many positions I agree with, but be a bit more realistic.
[/b][/quote]

you really take the cake. You really telling me a team that can't beat the Springboks and hasn't set the world alight this autumn has a right to have a lot of players in the world XV?

Let's look logically:

front row - Woodcock makes a strong case; the others are nothing special.
2nd row - at least Botha, Matfield and O'Connell are far ahead.
back row - McCaw is in everyone's team. no one else is anything special.
9 - Cowan is average.
10 - Carter is on everyone's list.
centres - Nonu is good but not quite good enough. Conrad Smith is world class but for O'Driscoll who is out of this world.
wings - Sivivatu has had a shaky year, excellent in patches and poor in others. no one else sticks their hand up.
fullback - Muliaini is awesome.

So, 3 players is about fair from my XV.

Don't really see what the issue is.
[/b][/quote]

O'Connell is a myth. If Brad Thorne was Irish he would not be able to leave his house for fear of being mobbed to death by rabid fans. FACT.

I don't rate Bakkies thaat highly either, i think hes world class, but im not sure how he would fare without Matfield. But thats just my opinion
 
Yeah, the thing I like about Thorne is that he is like an old truck that keeps performing day in and out, and never seems to have shown signs of aging, only gets a bit more grunt. I can see Thorne making it to the world cup. It is funny how I have compared Thorne to an old truck, where as I compared him to a fine wine earlier...same message. Anyway I don't believe O'Connel isn't one of the greatest locks in the world, and one of Irelands best players, but I do believe both Ali Williams and Thorne and even Chris jack if he comes back have the right to be considered and highly rated, though I can see why people like Bakkies, Victor and O'Connel. I believe the reason Bakkies is so highly rated is not due to his personal attributes, but the fact he compliments Matfield so well. They are in my opinion the best locking combination that I have seen.

I do love how because people say FACT after a statment it automatically becomes true lol.








NickDNZ is the greatest person alive FACT.
 
True what he says about O'Connell - We all saw hum get done over for the full 67* minutes earlier this year by an 'Over-rated' 20 year old. With less then 40 pro games under his belt.

His Lions captaincy was about as effective as Borthwick is for England also.
 
I just had one of the best bacon in my life, now that is a fact.

There was loads of Burnt Crunchy Bits.

It was like heaven died and got fried in my mouth.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 27 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I do love how because people say FACT after a statment it automatically becomes true lol.[/b]

I love how people can try to dispute a FACT with an opinion.
 
Anyone who has not picked Gethin Jenkins at 1 truly does not truly know anything about forwards play. The bloke destroys at scrum time and is round the park like a beast. It amazes me when someone can pick Woodcock or even Ben Robinson over him.
 
My two pennies worth (and also to give this thread a bump)

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Martin Castrogiovanni
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Victor Matfield
6. Rocky Elsom
7. Richie McCaw
8. Sergio Parisse
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Dan Carter
11. Sitiveni Sivivatu
12. Ma'a Nonu
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Vincent Clerc
15. Rob Kearney


16. Fabien Barcella
17. Adam Jones
18. Brad Thorn
19. Heinrich Brussow
20. Matt Giteau
21. Jaques Fourie
22. Mils Muliaina
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChiefsFan @ Nov 26 2009, 01:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Do you think we'll see any SH guys putting Elsom at 6? I doubt it.

1 Barcella
2 Hore
3 Hayman

4 Botha
5 Matfield

6 ???
7 McCaw
8 Parrise

9 du Preez
10 Carter

11 Sivivatu
12 Giteau
13 O'Driscoll
14 Habana
15 Muliaina

- I didn't pick Castro, because although he's played well, after the NZ/Italy game I'm not convinced his scrummaging is perfectly legal.
- Sivivatu is one of the busiest wingers in the world, and can easily create something from nothing.
- I'm not sure about the Center pairing, as both players are fairly small (as with the rest of the backline), which could be worrying, so maybe Mortlock in there somewhere.

Honorable Mentions - Woodcock, du Plessis, Thorn, Brussow, Jones, Roberts[/b]

Okay, so nobody at 6 then? Typical SH arrogance. Just because Elsom has an outstanding season at Leinster after not exactly setting the world alight in S14 that means the NH leagues are easier and he's not a great no.6. Tell that to Robbie Deans who obviously saw something in him to make him the Wallabies captain.
 
Had fun yesterday seeing Mattfield getting owned in the lineout by a myth. Hmmmm...and then said myth nicked everything in the breakdown.

And Teh Mite - yeah he got bettered by Lawes, but I think it was O'Connell's first start of the season.

My largely biased World XV.

1. Barcella
2. DuPlessis
3. Castrogiovani
4. Botha
5. O'Connell
6. Dousatoir
7. McCaw
8. Harinordoquy/Spies/Heaslip...

9. Du Preez
10. Dan Carter

11. Habana
12. Giteau (the match(s) where he played largely at 12 during the tri-nations were by far his best)
13. Gavin Henson
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Mils Keaney (A Compromise)
 
Team of the AI's:

1. Robinson
2. Flannery
3. Castrogiovani
4. Millo Chluski
5. O'Connell
6. Harinpodquy
7. Pocock
8. Fernandez Lobbe
9. Genia
10. Carter
11. Sivivatu
12. Mermoz
13. O'Driscoll
14. Jane
15. Kearney

16. Servat
17. Barcella
18. Thorn
19. Heaslip
20. Du Preez
21. Sexton
22. Muliaina
 
1. Jenkins
2.DuPlessis
3.Smith
4. Botha
5.Matfield
6. Elsom
7. McCaw
8.Spies
9. Du Preez
10.M. Steyn
11.Habana
12.Giteau
13.Henson
14. S. Wiliams
15. F. Steyn
 
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Bismarck Du Plessis
3. Martin Castrogiovanni

4. Bakkies Botha
5. Victor Matfield

6. Heinrich Brussow
7. Richie McCaw
8. Pierre Spies

9. Fourie Du Preez
10. Dan Carter

12. Matt Giteau
13. Brian O'Driscoll

11. Bryan Habana
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Lee Byrne
 

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