WRU pour cold water on ELVs

[sanzar]

Yeah no kidding... I mean there were some great matches throughout the tournament, but the final really put a dampner on the whole thing! It was just such a terrible game to watch that it was almost painful. I can't think of anyone who'd even mention last years final in the same breath as Australia V England match of the previous world cup.

 

[Steve-o]

<div class='quotemain'> Agrh, the French aren't bigger than the game, are they're standing in the way while the IRB is trying to progress the game like they have for the last 100 years.

FACT: the ELV's will be implemented globally by August this year (i'll provide a source later). This is TRIAL so don't get your knickers in a twist.

The IRB will ***** slap the French out of any IRB endorsed competition if they persist with their actions of the protest against the ELV's (worst case scenario of course) [/b]

As far as I know the FFR have not released any recommendation regarding the ELVs. So refrain your French bashing until they release their position.
[/b][/quote]
My apologies to the FFR, I misunderstood what Prestwick was saying. The FFR have in fact said they'll trial the ELV's, no problem. I thought they had gone back on their word and jumped on the same train as Wales.

And I agree, the RWC 07 final was boring. I watched with some family who don't watch rugby often and they were bored to tears.

Are people using this game as a catalist for change?

The ELV's don't magically fix teams or scrappy games, ask the Lions.

 

[Prestwick]

Yeah, the WRU are the only NH Union as far as I know to actually go public on this. The RFU and the FFR will most likely be swayed by what their clubs think about the ELVs.

 

[DonBilly]

Yeah, the WRU are the only NH Union as far as I know to actually go public on this. The RFU and the FFR will most likely be swayed by what their clubs think about the ELVs. [/b]

There's a Rugby talk show in France called Les Spécialistes Rugby. Two weeks ago both Jean-Pierre Villepreux (one of the contributors to the ELVs) and Serge Blanco (LNR President) were both participating. The ELVs are discussed every week to make them clearer to the Rugby fans. At one point in time Pierre Villepreux explained that the ELVs would be adopted and used in France next season. The comment immediately made by Serge Blanco was that it was not sure. He didn't looked like expressing his own position but rather reporting that there's no consensus on this.

 

[Prestwick]

Probably a similar situation in England. Nobody probably has even thought about the ELVs right now and probably won't until at least later next season.



EDIT: The only major figures in the North other than Wales to have come out against the ELVs to my knowledge has been Ian Mcgeechan who joins New Zealand Coach Graham Henry in the "No" camp.

EDIT EDIT: Also, it isn't a dead cert that the ELVs will be rolled out world wide next season. The issue comes up for vote at an iRB council meeting in Dublin on the 1st of May. The yes camp need 75% of the council votes to get it through. However, if the Home Nations & Canada go against the proposals, that will be enough to sink the deal. Thus, so far, Wales need the support of England & Ireland as well as Scotland and Canada to prevent the ELVs from entering the NH next year.

The RFU is rumoured to be privatly briefing against the ELVs but, as usual, is dithering. France it seems are the same.

 

[DonBilly]

Probably a similar situation in England. Nobody probably has even thought about the ELVs right now and probably won't until at least later next season.



EDIT: The only major figures in the North other than Wales to have come out against the ELVs to my knowledge has been Ian Mcgeechan who joins New Zealand Coach Graham Henry in the "No" camp.

EDIT EDIT: Also, it isn't a dead cert that the ELVs will be rolled out world wide next season. The issue comes up for vote at an iRB council meeting in Dublin on the 1st of May. The yes camp need 75% of the council votes to get it through. However, if the Home Nations & Canada go against the proposals, that will be enough to sink the deal. Thus, so far, Wales need the support of England & Ireland as well as Scotland and Canada to prevent the ELVs from entering the NH next year.

The RFU is rumoured to be privatly briefing against the ELVs but, as usual, is dithering. France it seems are the same.
[/b]

In France I've heard no rumour so far. The FFR people are very busy in the political tractation to designate the sucessor of Lapasset.

 

[Prestwick]

I do get a horrible feeling that at the meeting in question on the 1st of May, the RFU and FFR will say "ELVs? Eh? What are they?!"

 

[sanzar]

Really? Well that's a positive sign...
I really don't understand some of the antipathy towards the ELVs up North and in particular this idea that it's some "Australian conspiracy" - it's simply not true (after all it wasn't us that came up with them!). Sure some of the ELVs look to have no place in the game, but a few of them at least are worth serious discussion and for any country to come out and say NO to the very idea of even trialing them just seems silly.

 

[DonBilly]

Really? Well that's a positive sign...
I really don't understand some of the antipathy towards the ELVs up North and in particular this idea that it's some "Australian conspiracy" - it's simply not true (after all it wasn't us that came up with them!). Sure some of the ELVs look to have no place in the game, but a few of them at least are worth serious discussion and for any country to come out and say NO to the very idea of even trialing them just seems silly. [/b]

Let's wait until 1st of May, that's pretty soon anyway, and we'll see what are the arguments in favour and against. I won't be surprised that a subset of the ELVs are adopted. Maybe it will be asked to extend the interim period and some of the NH Unions will test by themselves in some of their competition these rules.

I wonder how nevertheless this can be tested. Let's imagine that for example the ML provinces decide to test these new Laws, what is done then at the HEC level? That's unlikely that the English, French and Italian accept that these new laws apply to the HEC if they are not used in their domestic leagues... In this case the ML teams will have to switch back and forth to the ELVs? That would be weird.

 

[Prestwick]

I wonder how nevertheless this can be tested. Let's imagine that for example the ML provinces decide to test these new Laws, what is done then at the HEC level? That's unlikely that the English, French and Italian accept that these new laws apply to the HEC if they are not used in their domestic leagues... In this case the ML teams will have to switch back and forth to the ELVs? That would be weird.
[/b]

Which wouldn't work and would probably sway the likes of Italy and France to vote against the measures. The ELVs will have to be implemented Europe wide or not at all, trying it out in the ML or the Top 14 only would simply not work and I think the clubs (especially in France) would cry foul.



If that were the case, prepare for the French Clubs to prepare to spring into action. If the iRB try to force the ELVs and the Clubs explicitly say that they don't want the said rules, expect the Clubs to boycott them. That would be my expectation of the typical French attitude to enforced change: mass revolt and civil disobedience with no end in sight.

 

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotemain'>
I wonder how nevertheless this can be tested. Let's imagine that for example the ML provinces decide to test these new Laws, what is done then at the HEC level? That's unlikely that the English, French and Italian accept that these new laws apply to the HEC if they are not used in their domestic leagues... In this case the ML teams will have to switch back and forth to the ELVs? That would be weird.
[/b]

Which wouldn't work and would probably sway the likes of Italy and France to vote against the measures. The ELVs will have to be implemented Europe wide or not at all, trying it out in the ML or the Top 14 only would simply not work and I think the clubs (especially in France) would cry foul.

If that were the case, prepare for the French Clubs to prepare to spring into action. If the iRB try to force the ELVs and the Clubs explicitly say that they don't want the said rules, expect the Clubs to boycott them. That would be my expectation of the typical French attitude to enforced change: mass revolt and civil disobedience with no end in sight.

[/b][/quote]

At the moment there's no sign that they are against or in favour of the ELVs. I agree with you that these ELVs should be implemented Europe wide if they are agreed upon.

I wonder who's going to participate to the 1st of May meeting. Will the professional clubs be represented or not? The IRB quite often doesn't recognize any legality to the clubs and this was a point of long arguments with both French and English clubs.

 

[Prestwick]

Which is why the iRB were shocked, shocked when the French Clubs had the temerity to ignore them over the HEC fiasco.

 

[oli_taylor]

2 things....

firstly... aren't the ELV's being tried out on the university rugby scene over here.

Secondly... the collapsing maul rule is ridiculous... imagine the increase in injuries to neck and back due to a maul collapsing on them...a boy on the opposing side to my school's under 13s broke his neck when a maul collapsed on him in September

 

[Fushitsusha]

2 things....

firstly... aren't the ELV's being tried out on the university rugby scene over here.

Secondly... the collapsing maul rule is ridiculous... imagine the increase in injuries to neck and back due to a maul collapsing on them...a boy on the opposing side to my school's under 13s broke his neck when a maul collapsed on him in September
[/b]

Actually, the collapsing of the maul rule was not adopted by the Super 14 and wouldn't be picked up if the ELV's go worldwide.

<div class='quotemain'>....the RW07 was considered the best...... [/b]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The 2007 RWC Final was just about the worst game of Rugby I have ever seen. In fact, that's not quite the truth. I have never actually seen the last 25 minutes, because it was so boring, I fell asleep watching it. :zzz: Two sides totally devoid of flair, ideas and/or imagination trying their very best not to f***-up.

If it hadn't been the final, it would have been utterly forgettable.

When I woke up 10 minutes from the end, nothing had changed, so I turned off the TV and went outside to clean the gutters, a much more fulfilling and rewarding way to spend my time than watching two teams of hapless clowns trying to bore each other to death.
[/b][/quote]

Thank christ for teams like Argentina, Fiji and Tonga... otherwise the whole tournament would've been a waste...

 

[I cant think of a username]

ELVs are terrible. I've watched alot of the Super 14 games and the rule about not taking the ball back into your own 22 turns the match into a complete kick fest its awful. The free kicks instead of penalties are by far and away the worst thing about the ELVs. IMO there is nothing about rugby that needs to be changed it's the perfect team sport.



Oh and as a Munster fan I'm definitely not happy about the collapsing maul rule!!

 

[Thingimubob]

I'm glad the WRU have stepped up and opposed the ELVs being implemented, more because that they should at least give the NH Leagues a chance to trial them first. I don;t believe in the whole 'Aussie Conspiracy' Theory. But, that John O'Niell bloke does seem like a prick for coming out with the 'The ELV's have to be implemented world wide by the Autumn Internationals'. If that did happen, then how're the NH teams supposed to see if they're any good before they play the big tests againts the touring SH teams, because international tours are no time to trial new rules. I liek soem of the ELV's, like handing in teh Ruck as long as you're on you're feet, and teh 5m behind teh scrum rule, but the collapsing maul and most penalties downgraded to free kicks are just daft. As soembody said, they're be a lot more injuries, and I can see that loads of players will see that they can break the rules, and get away with it without punishment.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'>
2 things....

firstly... aren't the ELV's being tried out on the university rugby scene over here.

Secondly... the collapsing maul rule is ridiculous... imagine the increase in injuries to neck and back due to a maul collapsing on them...a boy on the opposing side to my school's under 13s broke his neck when a maul collapsed on him in September
[/b]

Actually, the collapsing of the maul rule was not adopted by the Super 14 and wouldn't be picked up if the ELV's go worldwide.

<div class='quotemain'>....the RW07 was considered the best...... [/b]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The 2007 RWC Final was just about the worst game of Rugby I have ever seen. In fact, that's not quite the truth. I have never actually seen the last 25 minutes, because it was so boring, I fell asleep watching it. :zzz: Two sides totally devoid of flair, ideas and/or imagination trying their very best not to f***-up.

If it hadn't been the final, it would have been utterly forgettable.

When I woke up 10 minutes from the end, nothing had changed, so I turned off the TV and went outside to clean the gutters, a much more fulfilling and rewarding way to spend my time than watching two teams of hapless clowns trying to bore each other to death.
[/b][/quote]

Thank christ for teams like Argentina, Fiji and Tonga... otherwise the whole tournament would've been a waste...
[/b][/quote]
Yeh, because teams like France and England, pulling two of the biggest RWC upsets ever, deserve no acknowledgement? I don't see how people think that just because some laws, the games pace will increase during a game such as a WC final. The free kick instead of a penalty rule is a load of nonsense, why should a team get only a free kick if the opposition has done something illegal (according to the rules)?
If you can't punish them with a three point kick then there would be no point in penalising them as the team to win the free kick would be running at the offending team anyway! And it's definately unfair when a team that are defending for their lives on their tryline are awarded a <strike>penalty</strike> free kick, instead of being allowed to clear their lines and have a good shot at regaining possession with a long punt to touch.

 

[Fushitsusha]

Oh and as a Munster fan I'm definitely not happy about the collapsing maul rule!!
[/b]

As I stated above, that rule has not been picked up.

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
2 things....

firstly... aren't the ELV's being tried out on the university rugby scene over here.

Secondly... the collapsing maul rule is ridiculous... imagine the increase in injuries to neck and back due to a maul collapsing on them...a boy on the opposing side to my school's under 13s broke his neck when a maul collapsed on him in September
[/b]

Actually, the collapsing of the maul rule was not adopted by the Super 14 and wouldn't be picked up if the ELV's go worldwide.

<div class='quotemain'>....the RW07 was considered the best...... [/b]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The 2007 RWC Final was just about the worst game of Rugby I have ever seen. In fact, that's not quite the truth. I have never actually seen the last 25 minutes, because it was so boring, I fell asleep watching it. :zzz: Two sides totally devoid of flair, ideas and/or imagination trying their very best not to f***-up.

If it hadn't been the final, it would have been utterly forgettable.

When I woke up 10 minutes from the end, nothing had changed, so I turned off the TV and went outside to clean the gutters, a much more fulfilling and rewarding way to spend my time than watching two teams of hapless clowns trying to bore each other to death.
[/b][/quote]

Thank christ for teams like Argentina, Fiji and Tonga... otherwise the whole tournament would've been a waste...
[/b][/quote]
Yeh, because teams like France and England, pulling two of the biggest RWC upsets ever, deserve no acknowledgement?
[/b][/quote]

France did alright to beat New Zealand, but you have to admit the rest of the tournament for them was fairly dissapointing.

Also, if the ELV's had've been in play during the World Cup it wouldn't have effected the results. England could've still used the free kicks to exploit the weak Australia scrum.

The new laws really haven't changed the game much at all - only just sped it up a little, and added a bit more contest of possession.

Yes, early on in the Super 14 there was a period where the teams were the teams were getting used to the rules and there were some pointless kick-a-thons, and aimless throwing around of the ball, but now that the rules have settled in the gameplay is second to none.

In regards to the breakdown - there are still plenty of full arm penalties being awarded for offsides, constant infringements and cynical play. Teams will still get a shot at goal, and players will still get sent off if a team continues to infringe. However, it makes sure that games just don't turn into a penalty shoot out. Teams NEED to score tries if they want to win.

 

[Sir Speedy]

but now that the rules have settled in the gameplay is second to none.
[/b]

Actually, that's just opinion. I'd much rather watch the Heineken Cup over the Super 14 anyday.

Teams NEED to score tries if they want to win.
[/b]

Why? :huh:

 

[Fushitsusha]

<div class='quotemain'>
but now that the rules have settled in the gameplay is second to none.
[/b]

Actually, that's just opinion. I'd much rather watch the Heineken Cup over the Super 14 anyday.

Teams NEED to score tries if they want to win.
[/b]

Why? :huh:
[/b][/quote]

Well, they don't need to but there's certainly seems to have been less shots at goal for penalties.

Anyways, I think a lot of people have overreacted at the effect the ELVs have had on the game.