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England vs Argentina - 05/07/25

People need to remember that Roebuck is WAY more than just a high ball winger. Hes a hell of a rounded winger, and Steward brings a huge hard carrying 17 stone guy to the back line aswell. Get him smashing the midfield, quick ball from that very impressive back row...

Its hopefully a lot more to offer than just high ball kick chase....if they get it right.
 
People need to remember that Roebuck is WAY more than just a high ball winger. Hes a hell of a rounded winger, and Steward brings a huge hard carrying 17 stone guy to the back line aswell. Get him smashing the midfield, quick ball from that very impressive back row...

Its hopefully a lot more to offer than just high ball kick chase....if they get it right.
Stewards carrying isn't his problem it's his 1-1 defence and his inability to deal with footwork.
Much to like in his game and certainly knows where the try line is
 
People need to remember that Roebuck is WAY more than just a high ball winger. Hes a hell of a rounded winger, and Steward brings a huge hard carrying 17 stone guy to the back line aswell. Get him smashing the midfield, quick ball from that very impressive back row...

Its hopefully a lot more to offer than just high ball kick chase....if they get it right.
You're far too optimistic for an England under Steve Borthwick thread.
 
Stewards carrying isn't his problem it's his 1-1 defence and his inability to deal with footwork.
Much to like in his game and certainly knows where the try line is
I dont disagree with that, and Steward wouldnt be my choice of 15...but we need to try and get some positives. Offensively he can be a huge asset if used right.

Its up to the defensive coach to put a plan in to limit his exposure to fancy footwork
 
People need to remember that Roebuck is WAY more than just a high ball winger. Hes a hell of a rounded winger, and Steward brings a huge hard carrying 17 stone guy to the back line aswell. Get him smashing the midfield, quick ball from that very impressive back row...

Its hopefully a lot more to offer than just high ball kick chase....if they get it right.
Don't be coming around here with your positive vibes

Borthwick's England is where hope goes to die.
 
It's been three years, has SB ever done that?
The team is evolving, and i dont think Stewards carrying was as good in heavy contact as it is now.

Im not a fan of the set up really HOWEVER its a set up that actually could allow both high ball tactics AND also working on a FB crashing the midfield, quick recovery and using Ford, Atkinson to distribute from there.

IF they get it right...and Blackett could be a key player here....then it could work very well.
 
The team is evolving, and i dont think Stewards carrying was as good in heavy contact as it is now.

Im not a fan of the set up really HOWEVER its a set up that actually could allow both high ball tactics AND also working on a FB crashing the midfield, quick recovery and using Ford, Atkinson to distribute from there.

IF they get it right...and Blackett could be a key player here....then it could work very well.
Bernie Sanders Delusion GIF by Team Coco
 
On the selection - and admitting a club bias is bound to play a part here.

Dan - Borthwick sees something in him, but it's not like there's a long list of clearly better hookers being ignored.
Ewels - gets a lot of grief here. He's never going to be a good international player, but I don't recall any absolute howlers from him - red cards aside (and that's a hell of an aside) I don't see who is available and ahead of him. In a side distinctly lacking experience at international level, I can see his 30 caps going a long way in his favour.
Spencer - Has failed at international level, but between him, JvP and Quirke... I'd have him ahead of Quirke on form, and ahead of JvP if this was a club game. But he's a starter or nothing. If he's in the 23, then he's in the starting XV, so if he's ahead of Quirke, then he's ahead of JvP by default.
Slade - a worse selection than Ewels, but with the same justifications. He's not going to panic at the intensity of international rugby, though with some of the howlers he has had for England I'm not sure that's saying much. I think I would actually be more nervous (but also more excited) about the idea of 2 uncapped players, than of 1 uncapped + Slade in the midfield.
Muir - he's one of a ranch of promising wingers. He's the oldest, but then he also took to 15s later in life. He's not one for 6 years time, but if he takes to it, could easily be one for 2 years time. All of the ranch of wingers in this group have their downsides, some it's handling, or positioning, defence or aerial skills; Muir's is longevity. I wouldn't say that any of OHC, Murley, Roebuck, Radwan, Muir, Eliott, PBB, Hendy, Ibitoye... He's probably got the 2 most well-rounded on the pitch.
Steward - next cab off the rank. Whilst I think we have better alternatives who also fit in better to play the same gameplan as Furbank, there's no denying that Steward is the next choice after the Wing Commander.


Tactically - Borthwick is yet to excite me, or show me that he was the right man for the job 2 years ago. Whilst he did enough in the RWC23 to get to this point, I don't think I'd be renewing his contract from here if I were the RFU. But all of that is a "I wouldn't start from here" - which isn't terribly useful.
ETA: Just having a quick look, and even with the good results in this year's 6N, he's up to 53% win ratio, sitting between Andy Robinson and Brian Ashton in the table
 
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Dan - Borthwick sees something in him, but it's not like there's a long list of clearly better hookers being ignored.
Langdon's out there holding tackle bags and has been in better form than Dan, George and LCD this season


I think part of my frustration is the 6:2: bench with three backrowers on there,
Don't think we play the kind of game that requires that (our starting backrowers are all butchers dogs, if we'd had two locks and a backrower it'd make more sense as our setpiece struggles later on, but we've no 2nd row ballast coming on), would've much preferred 5:3, lose Dombrandt and have either Atikinson or Carpenter in there so we can look at succession at 10/15 (obv my bias is to put Carpenter in there, Roebuck has been emergency cover at centre for Sale a couple of times so could cover if Slade had to move to 10)
 
Langdon's out there holding tackle bags and has been in better form than Dan, George and LCD this season
So... a long list of 1...
I agree with you, but Borthwick has clearly got Dan as his 3rd choice hooker. I'd pick Langdon myself, but I wouldn't put him clearly ahead (whilst acknowledging my ignorance of front row play)

I'm not going to put any defence whatsoever up for having a bench with 6 forwards, none of whom are comfortable to play lock at club level; not even my half-hearted, "Well, the other guy isn't TOO much better than the selected" above
 
So... a long list of 1...
Only one's that relevant as he's there and should be in the shirt
but I wouldn't put him clearly ahead
Disagree on this entirely though, Dan's defence is really poor and his setpiece is, at best, average - but with the possibility of throwing some real clangers

I'd say there's quite a few players who've been a lot better than Dan this season, though

That's horrendous. I'm going to have to support Arg.

But I don't just want to be a Moaning Minnie (although why not play to your strengths?) so I could absolutely get behind something along these lines.

View attachment 23971
That is a nice shirt tbf, and definitely feels like more of an "Alternate" shirt, with the one they've just announced definitely feeling more like a training shirt
 

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