USA news & politics

[Saintjay]

There had been a failure to have honest conversations about it but that implies the right are, they aren't. In fact the right lie constantly about immigration and are far further from any honest conversation on it than the left are...

People simply don't care about facts, there isn't an honest conversation to be had with a populist who plays on people's fears. Numerous studies show people react to an emotional fear response far far more strongly than they do to a reasoned attempt to disprove that fear. There's the bullshit asymmetry principle, it takes vastly more effort to convince people something is bullshit than to convince them the bullshit is true. Look at Stockport and how rapidly completely unsubstituted lies led to violence. You think the Stockport lot for one second wouldn't have done what they did if someone tried to calmly reason with them? No chance. People who tap into the immigration fears are tapping into that response, and there is next to no way a reasoned response counters that. The only thing that counters it is people already feeling secure enough for the claims to not trigger a fear response. If people are already insecure (as it's definitely the case now due to financial hardship and other things), once that fear response is triggered, any attempt to reason is gone until that fear response subsides.

Which is why I don't understand the Labour purge of the left from the party. I'd hope Starmer would have an honest and open dialogue with them but I think he knows being to the right of center is more the vote winner, and people got what they voted for.

 

[dirty harry]

There had been a failure to have honest conversations about it but that implies the right are, they aren't. In fact the right lie constantly about immigration and are far further from any honest conversation on it than the left are...

People simply don't care about facts, there isn't an honest conversation to be had with a populist who plays on people's fears. Numerous studies show people react to an emotional fear response far far more strongly than they do to a reasoned attempt to disprove that fear. There's the bullshit asymmetry principle, it takes vastly more effort to convince people something is bullshit than to convince them the bullshit is true. Look at Stockport and how rapidly completely unsubstituted lies led to violence. You think the Stockport lot for one second wouldn't have done what they did if someone tried to calmly reason with them? No chance. People who tap into the immigration fears are tapping into that response, and there is next to no way a reasoned response counters that. The only thing that counters it is people already feeling secure enough for the claims to not trigger a fear response. If people are already insecure (as it's definitely the case now due to financial hardship and other things), once that fear response is triggered, any attempt to reason is gone until that fear response subsides.

This is exactly my point, if a leading left leaning politician just had an honest conversation of sensible immigration policies, the right would panic. This is where I potentially show my niaivity, but just somebody willing to stand their ground, not back down, not pander to a base, and stand in a left leaning position of strength, would really change things.

Right now, I can't think of a British left leaning politician who has an uncompromising stance on immigration, or other issues, except Corbyn.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Those Obama examples are perfect examples of what im saying though, Obama was incredibly popular, and left office still incredibly popular, the right wing push to criticise him stupidly didnt work, the same way the Democrats doing it to Trump isnt working.

The Afghan withdrawal is hilarious, the Biden presidency, determining that Trump was to blame, but then absolutely confirms the timing of the withdrawal was a Biden decision based off his generals recommendations lol. The timing of the withdrawal was the issue hahaha. Infact didnt PBS put out a statement from the Biden administration saying they learned to evacuate people earlier next time hahahah come on dude, you must have read this stuff! But let's say Trump was fully to blame, he set the withdrawal in motion, and he somehow made the generals convince Biden to arm the Taliban, at least, at least get key personelle out of the country safely. It all adds to the incompetency perception worldwide of Biden.

And while there, your not co.paring Biden and Trump surely? Every tabloid journo and host have released books about them uncovering his cognitive decline now, despite running interference on his behalf, Trump is old, but **** me if theres one thing you can compliment him on is that he's getting through a hell of a lot of work, its mostly vitriolic, but he's going through 6 or 7 key battles globally and domestically in one go, does the guy even sleep?!

Im not sure what right your talking about, they are 100% unified about the women issue, infact I wouldnt be surprised if they all had a memo on terminology. But her, happy to see some evidence of it.

Your conflating politicking with behaviours, infact the only real petty behaviour from a Republican i can remember was Mullin a few years ago, and that made him look strong lol. I can't remember who it was, but was tweeting insults at him and told him he knew where to find him, so Mullins told him to get up and get ready hahahaha. Americans love that stuff. What they dont love is watching fake Indian representitive do live streams pretending they drink beer and scratch their nuts just like them, or the booing and refusal to clap for a 13 year old cancer suffering child. Christ I keep forgetting how many of these incidents there are hahaha

Im not defending Republicans BTW, but the optics on their behaviour as opposed to Democrats behaviours is night and day it seems.

They aren't though, the war on Christmas is a prime example of how easily this propaganda was believed by a group despite being so easily disproven. I didn't cite those examples for their impact but more for how clearly ridiculous they were, yet how massively widespread they were. Hell Trump's entire mantra is "make America great again", the implication obviously being that it isn't great. Fate and evidence says it clearly was, but right wing propaganda convinced people the USA was failing. It also successfully convinced these same people that it was great again when he was in office, despite facts again indicating it hadn't significantly changed economically (and got WAY worse diplomatically). Round 2, again it somehow convinced people that in the 4 years Biden was in office it stopped being great, and now the propaganda machine is trying to convince them it's great again after just a few months.

We already covered this, the Biden administration pushed the date back because the Trump date was unworkable, but agreed it couldn't be pushed back any further as it would actually require essentially ripping up the entire plan and starting again. It was a terrible plan, it was never not going to be terrible because the USA fundamentally failed at building Afghanistan up after the invasion, it remained a failed state the entire time. The point is, the Afghan failure was every bit as much a Trump failure as a Biden one as the majority of the withdrawal had already been done before Biden even took office. I don't understand why you keep refusing to acknowledge the fact the withdrawal was already mostly complete before Biden took office, yet are repeatedly laying the bland at his feet... Yes the generals advised the date be pushed back, which is what happened, but everyone by that point has accepted any outcome was going to be bad, with the only alternative being undoing it all and committing to say in Afghanistan indefinitely until it became a stable nation. It was the Trump administration who negotiated with the Taliban and agreed the terms of the withdrawal.

Trump isn't doing "work" as such, he's enacting the playbook from project 2025. It was laid out before he took office. I've known people who are driven by hatred, they can go on and on and on in their pursuit of vengeance. That doesn't indicate cognitive health, in fact it strongly indicates the opposite. Someone on drugs can appear to go on for days with loads of energy but **** me you wouldn't want to rely on their judgment. Don't conflate Trumps energy on his vengeance tour with a strong work ethic or competence.

The right are 100% convinced about the woman thing yes, until they are actually pressed on it. It's an accusation they throw out far more than is thrown back. The times it is thrown back, they have not been able to offer a definition that actually works, there are always exceptions where it doesn't apply. These exceptions are either ignored as not important or denied to exist at all. That's an very well for a semantic argument but becomes difficult when you're taking about how you treat people by law. You can't have these exceptions you ignore in law. Again, just because they are convinced they are right and are unified in that belief, it doesn't make it so. However they simply give the perception they are and claim it's "common sense", the issue is common sense leaves no room for nuance. The Algerian boxer the right wing called a man us a perfect example. By every right wing definition of a woman, she's a woman, yet they have collectively decided she isn't purely because she looks masculine. See how, in reality, they actually aren't sure what a woman is?

So Republicans shooting pictures of their political opponents or implying that should happen isn't as childish or as bad...?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

This is exactly my point, if a leading left leaning politician just had an honest conversation of sensible immigration policies, the right would panic. This is where I potentially show my niaivity, but just somebody willing to stand their ground, not back down, not pander to a base, and stand in a left leaning position of strength, would really change things.

Right now, I can't think of a British left leaning politician who has an uncompromising stance on immigration, or other issues, except Corbyn.

See Brexit for a perfect example of that and how badly it failed. Liberal Democrats were pretty unashamedly pro-EU and what came with it, it lost to the brexiteers who painted images of the country being swamped by Turks, our culture being destroyed and parliament being subservient to the French and Germans.

 

[dirty harry]

They aren't though, the war on Christmas is a prime example of how easily this propaganda was believed by a group despite being so easily disproven. I didn't cite those examples for their impact but more for how clearly ridiculous they were, yet how massively widespread they were. Hell Trump's entire mantra is "make America great again", the implication obviously being that it isn't great. Fate and evidence says it clearly was, but right wing propaganda convinced people the USA was failing. It also successfully convinced these same people that it was great again when he was in office, despite facts again indicating it hadn't significantly changed economically (and got WAY worse diplomatically). Round 2, again it somehow convinced people that in the 4 years Biden was in office it stopped being great, and now the propaganda machine is trying to convince them it's great again after just a few months.

We already covered this, the Biden administration pushed the date back because the Trump date was unworkable, but agreed it couldn't be pushed back any further as it would actually require essentially ripping up the entire plan and starting again. It was a terrible plan, it was never not going to be terrible because the USA fundamentally failed at building Afghanistan up after the invasion, it remained a failed state the entire time. The point is, the Afghan failure was every bit as much a Trump failure as a Biden one as the majority of the withdrawal had already been done before Biden even took office. I don't understand why you keep refusing to acknowledge the fact the withdrawal was already mostly complete before Biden took office, yet are repeatedly laying the bland at his feet... Yes the generals advised the date be pushed back, which is what happened, but everyone by that point has accepted any outcome was going to be bad, with the only alternative being undoing it all and committing to say in Afghanistan indefinitely until it became a stable nation. It was the Trump administration who negotiated with the Taliban and agreed the terms of the withdrawal.

Trump isn't doing "work" as such, he's enacting the playbook from project 2025. It was laid out before he took office. I've known people who are driven by hatred, they can go on and on and on in their pursuit of vengeance. That doesn't indicate cognitive health, in fact it strongly indicates the opposite. Someone on drugs can appear to go on for days with loads of energy but **** me you wouldn't want to rely on their judgment. Don't conflate Trumps energy on his vengeance tour with a strong work ethic or competence.

The right are 100% convinced about the woman thing yes, until they are actually pressed on it. It's an accusation they throw out far more than is thrown back. The times it is thrown back, they have not been able to offer a definition that actually works, there are always exceptions where it doesn't apply. These exceptions are either ignored as not important or denied to exist at all. That's an very well for a semantic argument but becomes difficult when you're taking about how you treat people by law. You can't have these exceptions you ignore in law. Again, just because they are convinced they are right and are unified in that belief, it doesn't make it so. However they simply give the perception they are and claim it's "common sense", the issue is common sense leaves no room for nuance. The Algerian boxer the right wing called a man us a perfect example. By every right wing definition of a woman, she's a woman, yet they have collectively decided she isn't purely because she looks masculine. See how, in reality, they actually aren't sure what a woman is?

So Republicans shooting pictures of their political opponents or implying that should happen isn't as childish or as bad...?

The Christmas thing does prove my point though, Obama was incredibly popular on leaving office, meaning the stupid lies about him didnt work, Obama would have won had he run again against Trump. Had the birther conspiracy, or your Christmas argument were efrective, he would have had a low approval rating.

1. The Biden administration acknowledged the timeliness was theirs, and that they learned to evacuate people before an extraction hahaha. Thats their words. The timing and withdrawal leaving equipment and key personelle behind wasnt Trumps, had Trump won 2020, I suspect he would have drawn it out longer, and cocked it up a different way, but he's on record refusing to agree with leaving all the equipment behind that was proposed by generals.

I can't keep hearing about Project 2025 lol, its a prime example of propoganda you were saying convinces. He isnt aligned with it, LA times recently reported his policies were in line with about 30% of the goals listed, things like hard-line im.igration, Tarriffs, withdrawing from the Paris accord and other things he has wanted and did in term 1. Im not sure the drug abusing evil vengeful dictator is a realistic claim, but drug use i could get on board with, it would answer as to how he is able to perform as well as he has.

Your going to have to send me evidence of Repiblicans struggling to define what a woman is, ive only ever seen them pulling a JK Rowling while grilling Democrats.

Im also not sure of the republican shooting pictures of democrats, can you post a link?

 

[AlRums]

Texas Dems leave state to block vote on redrawn House map backed by Trump

Texas Democrats left the state Sunday in an attempt to prevent the state House from holding a vote Monday on new congressional maps that Republicans hope will net them several additional U.S. House…

nypost.com

 

[Which Tyler]

You'll find the core thing at the centre of all right wing populist movements right now is immigration. It dominates everything. The argument that there are too many foreigners and they are too blame for everything is the oldest appeal to fear in the book and has been used by populists since the dawn of time. They may pad it out a bit with other bits a pieces but you will find that right at the core every single time. Why? Because it works every single time there is economic hardship. It's no genius plan, it's no fault if the left, it's no issue other than one side appealing to and playing in some of the most base level fears humans hold and the others trying to fight against that nature. It really is as simple as that.

Fear of another tribe goes back to hunter-gatherer times.
Actually, scratch that. Given how Gorillas, Chinps and Bonobos react to other families, it almost certainly predates humanity.
Given how baboons (and possibly other monkeys, I don't know enough about) react to other tribes, it may even pre-date apes

 

[Saintjay]

This is exactly my point, if a leading left leaning politician just had an honest conversation of sensible immigration policies, the right would panic. This is where I potentially show my niaivity, but just somebody willing to stand their ground, not back down, not pander to a base, and stand in a left leaning position of strength, would really change things.

Right now, I can't think of a British left leaning politician who has an uncompromising stance on immigration, or other issues, except Corbyn.

Denmark often has a left leaning government yet has implemented some of the hardest immigration policies in Europe.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The Christmas thing does prove my point though, Obama was incredibly popular on leaving office, meaning the stupid lies about him didnt work, Obama would have won had he run again against Trump. Had the birther conspiracy, or your Christmas argument were efrective, he would have had a low approval rating.

1. The Biden administration acknowledged the timeliness was theirs, and that they learned to evacuate people before an extraction hahaha. Thats their words. The timing and withdrawal leaving equipment and key personelle behind wasnt Trumps, had Trump won 2020, I suspect he would have drawn it out longer, and cocked it up a different way, but he's on record refusing to agree with leaving all the equipment behind that was proposed by generals.

I can't keep hearing about Project 2025 lol, its a prime example of propoganda you were saying convinces. He isnt aligned with it, LA times recently reported his policies were in line with about 30% of the goals listed, things like hard-line im.igration, Tarriffs, withdrawing from the Paris accord and other things he has wanted and did in term 1. Im not sure the drug abusing evil vengeful dictator is a realistic claim, but drug use i could get on board with, it would answer as to how he is able to perform as well as he has.

Your going to have to send me evidence of Repiblicans struggling to define what a woman is, ive only ever seen them pulling a JK Rowling while grilling Democrats.

Im also not sure of the republican shooting pictures of democrats, can you post a link?

You're missing the point, the lies DID work, they just didn't work well enough. Look at how many people to this day still believe the birther crap Obama was able to weather it but it's a pattern of behaviour from the right that you appear to be denying. This didn't suddenly stop, these brazen lies continued. The difference is, their impact is even higher now. This has absolutely nothing to do with anything the left do or don't do and is about a decades long effort to fine tune extreme propaganda by the far right. What is the constant theme? That Obama was somehow "foreign", that his goal was to undermine the nation, that his religious beliefs were wrong, it was all about tapping into people's fear and seeing what level of nonsense they could convince people was true. To say these attitudes were some reaction to the actions of the left is nonsense, this stuff was a concerted lying campaign, the very same thing you claim Democrats have done against Trump. Difference is the Democrats put their money where their mouth is, Trump would have gone to court if it wasn't for his enablers blocking it. Obama was never going to court because they knew their claims were baseless.

It's also important to remember Clinton beat Trump by 3 millions votes. It was not the reactionary wipeout it is portrayed as, it was a quirk of geography that gave Trump the first win.

No, it's not an example of prime propaganda because Project 2025 actually exists and the architects of it are in positions of influence... So Trump is "only" 30% in line after 6 months with a policy designed to completely dismantle US democracy, and that's good...? I'm not claiming Trump is using drugs, I'm claiming someone appearing to have a lot of energy is not evidence of a functioning mind. To invoke Godwins law, Hitler would reportedly go for days with next to no sleep, constantly ranting and raving and appearing to have tons of energy at the end of WW2. That didn't override the fact that mentally he was in pieces and all he could focus on was hatred. Trump tweeting crap at 2AM is definitely not the sign of a hard worker or someone who is mentally there, it's the sign of an obsessed narcissist hell bent on a vengeance tour. It shouldn't need to be said but that is very much not a good trait for anyone in power.

I don't have a suitable example to hand but I've never seen a Republican be able to define a woman in a way that stood up to scrutiny. Again, them all claiming they have no problem defining a woman doesn't make it true, it just makes them confidence in their ignorance. I could flip it, show me a Republican correctly defining a woman that doesn't leave exceptions that aren't covered by the definition.

Republican with an ad shooting Democrats.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/super-bowl-advert-gop-democrats-b2013694.html

 

[AlRums]

How Trump Caved And Went Home With 'Nothing' In Talks With Schumer

The dramatic collapse in talks over the weekend doesn't bode well for the tougher job lawmakers are facing of funding the government next month.

www.huffpost.com

 

[dirty harry]

You're missing the point, the lies DID work, they just didn't work well enough. Look at how many people to this day still believe the birther crap Obama was able to weather it but it's a pattern of behaviour from the right that you appear to be denying. This didn't suddenly stop, these brazen lies continued. The difference is, their impact is even higher now. This has absolutely nothing to do with anything the left do or don't do and is about a decades long effort to fine tune extreme propaganda by the far right. What is the constant theme? That Obama was somehow "foreign", that his goal was to undermine the nation, that his religious beliefs were wrong, it was all about tapping into people's fear and seeing what level of nonsense they could convince people was true. To say these attitudes were some reaction to the actions of the left is nonsense, this stuff was a concerted lying campaign, the very same thing you claim Democrats have done against Trump. Difference is the Democrats put their money where their mouth is, Trump would have gone to court if it wasn't for his enablers blocking it. Obama was never going to court because they knew their claims were baseless.

It's also important to remember Clinton beat Trump by 3 millions votes. It was not the reactionary wipeout it is portrayed as, it was a quirk of geography that gave Trump the first win.

No, it's not an example of prime propaganda because Project 2025 actually exists and the architects of it are in positions of influence... So Trump is "only" 30% in line after 6 months with a policy designed to completely dismantle US democracy, and that's good...? I'm not claiming Trump is using drugs, I'm claiming someone appearing to have a lot of energy is not evidence of a functioning mind. To invoke Godwins law, Hitler would reportedly go for days with next to no sleep, constantly ranting and raving and appearing to have tons of energy at the end of WW2. That didn't override the fact that mentally he was in pieces and all he could focus on was hatred. Trump tweeting crap at 2AM is definitely not the sign of a hard worker or someone who is mentally there, it's the sign of an obsessed narcissist hell bent on a vengeance tour. It shouldn't need to be said but that is very much not a good trait for anyone in power.

I don't have a suitable example to hand but I've never seen a Republican be able to define a woman in a way that stood up to scrutiny. Again, them all claiming they have no problem defining a woman doesn't make it true, it just makes them confidence in their ignorance. I could flip it, show me a Republican correctly defining a woman that doesn't leave exceptions that aren't covered by the definition.

Republican with an ad shooting Democrats.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/super-bowl-advert-gop-democrats-b2013694.html

But the definition of 'worked' is having the desired effect, if the Republicans lies didnt work enough, they didnt have the outcomenthey wanted, and by default were a failure and didnt work. Obama leaving office superbly popular is absolute proof that Republicans failed. A tiny minority actually believed the birther stories then, maybe 12 to 50 believe them now lol.

What the left are doing now is playing into Republican hands, by fighting losing causes and failing to do what Republicans failed to do with Obama, their lies and mistruths are just as unsuccessful as Republicans were 15 years ago.

Hahaha the 30% is designed to dismantle US democracy? Enforcing immigration law, re negotiating foreign deals, and energy independence? These are the Trump already stated positions before Project 2025 was released, he has been consistent on these issues, and Americans voted for them. Just so you are aware, Obama policies are probably similarly aligned, Project 2025 would have celebrated his immigration policy as being beyond their wildest dreams hahaha.

If you can't find single example of a Republican struggling to define what a women is, but there are tons of examples of Democrats struggling, then whether you believe Republicans struggle is irrelevant isnt it?

Come on, that is the most hysterical take ive heard from you, that that cartoonish advert is a Republican 'shooting' Democrats hahahaha this again is a great example of the Republicans winning the battles that count. The Dems have given up humour for pearl clutching, and its not a winning strategy.

Do you remember the 'Let's go Brandon' meme? Worked great for the Republicans

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

But the definition of 'worked' is having the desired effect, if the Republicans lies didnt work enough, they didnt have the outcomenthey wanted, and by default were a failure and didnt work. Obama leaving office superbly popular is absolute proof that Republicans failed. A tiny minority actually believed the birther stories then, maybe 12 to 50 believe them now lol.

What the left are doing now is playing into Republican hands, by fighting losing causes and failing to do what Republicans failed to do with Obama, their lies and mistruths are just as unsuccessful as Republicans were 15 years ago.

Hahaha the 30% is designed to dismantle US democracy? Enforcing immigration law, re negotiating foreign deals, and energy independence? These are the Trump already stated positions before Project 2025 was released, he has been consistent on these issues, and Americans voted for them. Just so you are aware, Obama policies are probably similarly aligned, Project 2025 would have celebrated his immigration policy as being beyond their wildest dreams hahaha.

If you can't find single example of a Republican struggling to define what a women is, but there are tons of examples of Democrats struggling, then whether you believe Republicans struggle is irrelevant isnt it?

Come on, that is the most hysterical take ive heard from you, that that cartoonish advert is a Republican 'shooting' Democrats hahahaha this again is a great example of the Republicans winning the battles that count. The Dems have given up humour for pearl clutching, and its not a winning strategy.

Do you remember the 'Let's go Brandon' meme? Worked great for the Republicans

You're again proving how disingenuous you are... Yes it worked because the aim of a lie is to make people believe it, and millions believed it do it worked. Claiming it failed because he got a second term is ridiculous. The propaganda levelled against Obama was often extended to Clinton by extension after and look how that went. The propaganda was also particularly nefarious, by the end it was accusing them of being pedos running a sex ring. Also how about the "but but her emails?" Propaganda? It worked.

Except when it came to the legal issues, they weren't lies. I told you, Democrats were winning to go to court over their claims, Republicans weren't. That should tell you all you need to know about the relative merits. You are repeatedly ignoring this key distinction.

I can find examples, what I can't find so easily are Republicans being challenged live in their definition..I notice you also couldn't present a case of a republican defining a woman that didn't leave holes where it didn't apply. Seeing as republicans have no issues defining a woman, this should be easy. You also may have noticed how they are so sure about it when the conversation is a trans woman thing into woman's toilets but are far less sure about a trans man going into men's toilets, particularly when they actually passably look like a man.

And here's where you move the goalposts, I show you a case of a candidate shooting there opponents, EXACTLY what you asked for and you make excuses for it. We were talking about tasteless campaigning but you think a campaign showing shooting your opponents is fine. You know one of the people in the advert was the partner of an actual victim of an attempted assassination who was shot in the head you ****?

If you think that's humour then you are a sick *******.

As for Republicans having humour, give me a ******* break. Trump is in truth social foaming at the mouth every time someone makes fun of him and gets his press secretary to attack them, see south park most recently as an example.

 

[dirty harry]

You're again proving how disingenuous you are... Yes it worked because the aim of a lie is to make people believe it, and millions believed it do it worked. Claiming it failed because he got a second term is ridiculous. The propaganda levelled against Obama was often extended to Clinton by extension after and look how that went. The propaganda was also particularly nefarious, by the end it was accusing them of being pedos running a sex ring. Also how about the "but but her emails?" Propaganda? It worked.

Except when it came to the legal issues, they weren't lies. I told you, Democrats were winning to go to court over their claims, Republicans weren't. That should tell you all you need to know about the relative merits. You are repeatedly ignoring this key distinction.

I can find examples, what I can't find so easily are Republicans being challenged live in their definition..I notice you also couldn't present a case of a republican defining a woman that didn't leave holes where it didn't apply. Seeing as republicans have no issues defining a woman, this should be easy. You also may have noticed how they are so sure about it when the conversation is a trans woman thing into woman's toilets but are far less sure about a trans man going into men's toilets, particularly when they actually passably look like a man.

And here's where you move the goalposts, I show you a case of a candidate shooting there opponents, EXACTLY what you asked for and you make excuses for it. We were talking about tasteless campaigning but you think a campaign showing shooting your opponents is fine. You know one of the people in the advert was an actual victim of an attempted assassination you ****?

If you think that's humour then you are sick.

Mate come on, your not honestly saying, Obama being a wrecking ball, winning w terms and LEAVING OFFICE incredibly popular, is proof that Republicans lies worked in stopping him... winning 2 terms and leaving office incredibly popular hahahaha those lies failed to beat Obama then, the same way Democrat lies haflve failed to beat Trump now. Also, I dont remember anyone using the Birther conspiracy against Clinton, she had her own life time of problems to deal with lol.

I dont thinknyou can find an example of a Republican struggling to define a woman, or added to that struggling to answer a gender question. 1. They dont get asked it because its such an easy answer, 2. They're all aligned in what a woman is.

Take a breathe, there isnt need for insults or calling me sick, but show me who got shot in the advert?

Is your stance really that this advert is violent? Hahahahaha

You're not serious, this cartoon style western ad is your hill? Seriously?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Mate come on, your not honestly saying, Obama being a wrecking ball, winning w terms and LEAVING OFFICE incredibly popular, is proof that Republicans lies worked in stopping him... winning 2 terms and leaving office incredibly popular hahahaha those lies failed to beat Obama then, the same way Democrat lies haflve failed to beat Trump now. Also, I dont remember anyone using the Birther conspiracy against Clinton, she had her own life time of problems to deal with lol.

I dont thinknyou can find an example of a Republican struggling to define a woman, or added to that struggling to answer a gender question. 1. They dont get asked it because its such an easy answer, 2. They're all aligned in what a woman is.

Take a breathe, there isnt need for insults or calling me sick, but show me who got shot in the advert?

Is your stance really that this advert is violent? Hahahahaha

You're not serious, this cartoon style western ad is your hill? Seriously?

You're fixated on Obama and view the only successful outcome is him losing. Obama didn't lose but during his time the tea party took over the Republican party, which lays the ground for Maga to take over. Considering your claim to live nuance, the fact you can't look beyond insane listing as proof of success is interesting.

And you can't provide an example of a Republican defining a woman that doesn't leave room for exceptions. Again, Republicans thinking they can define a woman is not the same as actually being able to. There are first earthers who can get confidently answer the question about the shape of the earth, that doesn't make them right, or are you confusing confidence with competence?

Again one of the people in the advert was the partner of a politician who was shot in the head in a failed assassination attempt, and you see no problem with that? Only one of us had chosen the wrong hill to die on.

Also ignored the fact that Trump is the most thin skinned politician ever when trying to claim Republicans still do humour... You want to claim Trump can actually take a joke? Republicans dish it out but they can't take it. Having a sense of humour relies on being able to do both.

 

[dirty harry]

You're fixated on Obama and view the only successful outcome is him losing. Obama didn't lose but during his time the tea party took over the Republican party, which lays the ground for Maga to take over. Considering your claim to live nuance, the fact you can't look beyond insane listing as proof of success is interesting.

And you can't provide an example of a Republican defining a woman that doesn't leave room for exceptions. Again, Republicans thinking they can define a woman is not the same as actually being able to. There are first earthers who can get confidently answer the question about the shape of the earth, that doesn't make them right, or are you confusing confidence with competence?

Again one of the people in the advert was the partner of a politician who was shot in the head in a failed assassination attempt, and you see no problem with that? Only one of us had chosen the wrong hill to die on.

Also ignored the fact that Trump is the most thin skinned politician ever when trying to claim Republicans still do humour... You want to claim Trump can actually take a joke? Republicans dish it out but they can't take it. Having a sense of humour relies on being able to do both.

The Tea party power grab was a result of Republicans failings though, and Obamas extended presidential powers. Had the Republican lies been successful and they won the presidency things wouldnt have gone the same way. This is more evidence that lieing about someone doesnt work, the same way Trump has great power, because the Dems strategy of lieing about every little thing, like project 2025 has been an abject failure.

Or are you claiming the Republican strategy was to lose both presidential elections against Obama?

I havnt made the assertion Republicans struggle defining what a woman is, you have. Why do I need to go find evidence of something that is not my assertion? If you feel Republicans cant define a woman, please provide an example or concede the point.

Wait, I didnt see Melania in the advert? She is the partner of a politician shot in the head in a failed assassination attempt, would i find it appropriate for this advert to feature AOC chasing Trump out of her town? Yes, its a cartoon skit, in which noone was hurt, noone was shot. Infact I think ive seen more violence in a child's cartoon.

Did you protest the movie Rango by any chance?

Trump is incredibly thin skinned, as are a number of Republicand and Democrats, but the perception is that MAGA country is far tougher than Dem country. Its a great marketing ploy from the Republicans, that has an element of truth, blown up to look like the norm. Look at comedy, it hasn't become left vs right, because in that scenario left wins hands down, but its been redefined as left vs non left. Democrats have knelt to too many radicals, and allowed their complaining and crying to represent them. Chappelle and Rogan are perfect examples, of lifelong Democrats and lefty luvvies who have been shunned, and deemed problematic, and now are defecto Republicans.l hahahaha

 

[McTallshort]

You're fixated on Obama and view the only successful outcome is him losing. Obama didn't lose but during his time the tea party took over the Republican party, which lays the ground for Maga to take over. Considering your claim to live nuance, the fact you can't look beyond insane listing as proof of success is interesting.

And you can't provide an example of a Republican defining a woman that doesn't leave room for exceptions. Again, Republicans thinking they can define a woman is not the same as actually being able to. There are first earthers who can get confidently answer the question about the shape of the earth, that doesn't make them right, or are you confusing confidence with competence?

Again one of the people in the advert was the partner of a politician who was shot in the head in a failed assassination attempt, and you see no problem with that? Only one of us had chosen the wrong hill to die on.

Also ignored the fact that Trump is the most thin skinned politician ever when trying to claim Republicans still do humour... You want to claim Trump can actually take a joke? Republicans dish it out but they can't take it. Having a sense of humour relies on being able to do both.

Let's be honest the reason the Tea party became a thing was because people didn't like the fact their president was....black

 

[dirty harry]

Let's be honest the reason the Tea party became a thing was because people didn't like the fact their president was....black

Ooooffff... I mean, I cant argue there wasnt an element of that, but it must be tiny, Obama was so popular its hard to imagine racists would vote for him.

Its the same way the argument that MAGA voters were racist in 2015... millions of them must have voted for Obama.

Infact I remember reading, and embarrassingly believing in, an idea that Republicans were done for a generation, because their base were old and white, and as they die off they cant replace them with new voters. Politico I think. It made the case that racists were dying out, and Republicans were all racist.

This was during republican primaries I think, when we were all laughing at Trump for trying to run, silly goose he was.

 

[McTallshort]

Ooooffff... I mean, I cant argue there wasnt an element of that, but it must be tiny, Obama was so popular its hard to imagine racists would vote for him.

Its the same way the argument that MAGA voters were racist in 2015... millions of them must have voted for Obama.

Infact I remember reading, and embarrassingly believing in, an idea that Republicans were done for a generation, because their base were old and white, and as they die off they cant replace them with new voters. Politico I think. It made the case that racists were dying out, and Republicans were all racist.

This was during republican primaries I think, when we were all laughing at Trump for trying to run, silly goose he was.

Were is MAGAs heartland? Same place of the Jim Crow laws, the lost cause myth and where there's lots of white marbelled statues of Confederate "heros"

 

[General Melchett]

Let's be honest the reason the Tea party became a thing was because people didn't like the fact their president was....black

I also think many don't want a woman President (including many conservative/MAGA women). A tall white Christian/Catholic male with hair and bright zirconium crowns is what they want.

The Tory membership voting in Liz Truss over Sunak also says a lot about people here too. Yes the Tories deserved to be booted out but I'm sure many didn't accept Sunak because of his skin colour.

 

[Saintjay]

I also think many don't want a woman President (including many conservative/MAGA women). A tall white Christian/Catholic male with hair and bright zirconium crowns is what they want.

Sounds like who the Labour party prefer as well.

Podcast the other day saying the likes of Rayner / Philips are too female and working class to be considered leaders by senior Labour members. Bigger nail in the coffin if you are linked to a Union.