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dirty harry said:
For the 100th time, thats a claim ive never made, why you persist with that narrative i dont know, its not an honest representation of whats been discussed.

Trump and Obama have huge swathes in common, Trumps campaign I guarantee took plenty from Obama. I am truly shocked that this wouldnt be blatantly obvious, both outsiders, similar messaging of change, use of social media, and using online grassroots movements, populist messaging, charismatic leaders, both threatened to disrupt the establishment and norms...
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The first thing you said was

I dont think it changes, hes shown the Republicans how to win. Essentially be Barrack obama, unapologetically Barrack O Bama for 2010, implement his policies,
laugh at the bullshit lobbed at you...

With regards to what you just said it's just totally different. Now you're saying they're similar because they're both outsiders and used social media? I mean come on. I'll grant you charismatic and populist but then we're just back at pretty generic things really.

You already granted their messaging and overall character is totally different. But sure, I've never doubted that even on some policy level there are some similarities (though I'd argue you'd see these kind of similarities amongst any politician really) but I just don't get the line of reasoning on this. They're clearly different people that believe in different things. Trump doesn't need to be Obama to win and his supporters largely don't want that either I'd imagine.
 
Welsh Exile said:
The first thing you said was

I dont think it changes, hes shown the Republicans how to win. Essentially be Barrack obama, unapologetically Barrack O Bama for 2010, implement his policies,
laugh at the bullshit lobbed at you...

With regards to what you just said it's just totally different. Now you're saying they're similar because they're both outsiders and used social media? I mean come on. I'll grant you charismatic and populist but then we're just back at pretty generic things really.

You already granted their messaging and overall character is totally different. But sure, I've never doubted that even on some policy level there are some similarities (though I'd argue you'd see these kind of similarities amongst any politician really) but I just don't get the line of reasoning on this. They're clearly different people that believe in different things. Trump doesn't need to be Obama to win and his supporters largely don't want that either I'd imagine.
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Obama an outsider? The guy was a state senator for 7 years and a federal senator for 3. On the young side yes but definitely not an outsider.

At least young by modern politician standards, in my opinion the optimum age really for a national leader.
 
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Welsh Exile said:
The first thing you said was

I dont think it changes, hes shown the Republicans how to win. Essentially be Barrack obama, unapologetically Barrack O Bama for 2010, implement his policies,
laugh at the bullshit lobbed at you...

With regards to what you just said it's just totally different. Now you're saying they're similar because they're both outsiders and used social media? I mean come on. I'll grant you charismatic and populist but then we're just back at pretty generic things really.

You already granted their messaging and overall character is totally different. But sure, I've never doubted that even on some policy level there are some similarities (though I'd argue you'd see these kind of similarities amongst any politician really) but I just don't get the line of reasoning on this. They're clearly different people that believe in different things. Trump doesn't need to be Obama to win and his supporters largely don't want that either I'd imagine.
Click to expand...

So your stance that they are totally different, and not similar st all no longer stands then?

If your 2 kids are naughty, and get a lump of coal for christmas, whether that coal is wrapped in newspaper, or 5 grands worth of peruvian chestnut paper matters not a jot, its still a lump of coal.

If one man speaks about unity while deporting 1000 people per day for 8 years, and another spits about criminals while deporting 660 per day, what really is the difference to an illegal Mexican afraid to go to work?

Now we agree, that despite rhetoric, on the border they are 90% similar, why dont we package the border up, agree and move on to other issues where there are genuine diffeeences, and suprising similarities?
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
Obama an outsider? The guy was a state senator for 7 years and a federal senator for 3. On the young side yes but definitely not an outsider.

At least young by modern politician standards, in my opinion the optimum age really for a national leader.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Wo when he said 'washington is broken, it needs fresh views' and 'this campaign is not aboutbme, its about you' that wasnt him making the claim he will fix things, drain the swamp and theyre not coming after me, theyre coming for you, im just in their way...

Oh wait, where have i? Oh ****, Trump might actually have plagerised Obama lol
 
dirty harry said:
So your stance that they are totally different, and not similar st all no longer stands then?

If your 2 kids are naughty, and get a lump of coal for christmas, whether that coal is wrapped in newspaper, or 5 grands worth of peruvian chestnut paper matters not a jot, its still a lump of coal.

If one man speaks about unity while deporting 1000 people per day for 8 years, and another spits about criminals while deporting 660 per day, what really is the difference to an illegal Mexican afraid to go to work?

Now we agree, that despite rhetoric, on the border they are 90% similar, why dont we package the border up, agree and move on to other issues where there are genuine diffeeences, and suprising similarities?
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You can move onto whatever you want. I don’t know where this 90% figure comes from as it was an actual Obama immigration policy that Trump tried to end but I wouldn’t put a figure on it.

I think “they both deported people” lacks a lot of nuance. Who was he deporting? For how long? For what reasons? Is the intent the same? Was there any shift in policy? These and many other important questions would need to be answered before you even consider whether they are 90% aligned on immigration.
 
Welsh Exile said:
You can move onto whatever you want. I don't know where this 90% figure comes from as it was an actual Obama immigration policy that Trump tried to end but I wouldn't put a figure on it.

I think "they both deported people" lacks a lot of nuance. Who was he deporting? For how long? For what reasons? Is the intent the same? Was there any shift in policy? These and many other important questions would need to be answered before you even consider whether they are 90% aligned on immigration.
Click to expand...

We have literally been through all of that above, you just ignore whats inconvenient!

Illegal criminals were deported at a rate higher under Obama then Trump, deportations were permenant under both, the intent was to use the border as a political tool for both, there was masdive upshift in ICE power, billions spent on a new fence and tech on the border, and uptake in detention centres under both.

So at very least, you have to agree that on border policy they are aligned in the vast majority, whether thats somewhere between 70% and 99%, i think its safe to say that bordr policy hase been conclusive proven.
 
dirty harry said:
We have literally been through all of that above, you just ignore whats inconvenient!

Illegal criminals were deported at a rate higher under Obama then Trump, deportations were permenant under both, the intent was to use the border as a political tool for both, there was masdive upshift in ICE power, billions spent on a new fence and tech on the border, and uptake in detention centres under both.

So at very least, you have to agree that on border policy they are aligned in the vast majority, whether thats somewhere between 70% and 99%, i think its safe to say that bordr policy hase been conclusive proven.
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Have you got any links for this? Have you read the 2 links I posted? They seem to suggest they targeted different people.
 
AlRums said:
www.huffpost.com

Trump Pardons Convicted Crypto CEO

U.S. authorities said in 2023 that Binance had failed to report suspicious transactions with organizations including Hamas and al Qaeda and with websites dedicated to selling child sexual abuse materials.
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com
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And the trend of Trump pardoning the utterly corrupt continues...

There needs to be a real look as presidential pardons at some point. It's ridiculous they even exist.
 
Saintjay said:
Didn't Biden pardon members of his family for things they might have done or yet to be caught for.

I get the principal of stopping malicious prosecutions, but the whole pardon thing seems bonkers.
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Yes, which was also ridiculous but there is ample evidence the Trump administration would have intentionally targeted them as they are doing with others now, whose cases are falling apart because there is no merit to them.

It's also kinda different protecting your own family (still wrong but most people want to protect their family) and protecting people who are simply political loyalists and on "your side" in a culture war.
 
Saintjay said:
Didn't Biden pardon members of his family for things they might have done or yet to be caught for.

I get the principal of stopping malicious prosecutions, but the whole pardon thing seems bonkers.
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yeah, thats was dodgy, the idea of a pre-emptive pardon dont feel right and even more people youre connected with

but also, i just watched a presser where he was asked about pardoning this guy and he says "i dont really know about it, i think people were saying what he was convicted of wasnt even a crime so i pardoned him"

hes either doing so many he cant keep them straight in his head, or hes not giving them much thought, neither seem right, and is there actually a chance that people are being convicted of things that aren't crimes? ...not charged being manufactured or trumped up
 
Kiwiwomble said:
yeah, thats was dodgy, the idea of a pre-emptive pardon dont feel right and even more people youre connected with

but also, i just watched a presser where he was asked about pardoning this guy and he says "i dont really know about it, i think people were saying what he was convicted of wasnt even a crime so i pardoned him"

hes either doing so many he cant keep them straight in his head, or hes not giving them much thought, neither seem right, and is there actually a chance that people are being convicted of things that aren't crimes? ...not charged being manufactured or trumped up
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I read this article today about Johnson never apparently "knew" about anything.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

'Mike Johnson Doesn't Know S**t': Scathing Supercut Exposes His Biggest Tell

"The Daily Show" reveals how the House speaker ducks questions.
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

And it struck me that strumpets been using the exact same tactic for the last few weeks.
 
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Which Tyler said:
View attachment 24905
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Pam Bondi and Karoline Levitt are practically Orwellian with their attitude, lies and hypocrisy.

Meanwhile Trump called off trade talks with Canada because they dared to have an advert showing Reagan saying he was against tariffs. Would be interesting to see where modern Republicans would claim they sat if choosing between Reagan and Trump...

Are they the party of Reagan or the party of Trump?
 
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