Wales V Argentina

[Welsh Exile]

Naturally, I had Faletau on my back row but would stick Plumtree at 6 now.

Smith
Lake
Griffin
Jenkins
Davies
Plumtree
Morgan
Wainwright

Williams
Evans
Rogers
Hawkins
Llewellyn
LRZ
Murray

Coghlan, Thomas, Coleman, Freddie Thomas, Morse, Hardy, Edwards, Hennessy

 

[OllyM97]

Argentina by 20 points. Wales will compete for 60 then get blown away in the last 20.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Argentina by 20 points. Wales will compete for 60 then get blown away in the last 20.

You're probably right but maybe it's because I've already had a bottle of vodka, but I'm feeling quietly optimistic we can keep it within a score.

 

[General Melchett]

Massively rooting for Wales here. ARG could lose big ranking points if they pick up the L. Don't let us down Stevie T.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Massively rooting for Wales here. ARG could lose big ranking points if they pick up the L. Don't let us down Stevie T.

For us everything is going to plan. We've successfully completed phase 1 of the plan which is to make ourselves a third tier rugby nation. Second phase is to get drawn into the group of death in the WC by which point everyone has written us off which then leads to the glorious 3rd phase of the plan, win the WC.

 

[General Melchett]

For us everything is going to plan. We've successfully completed phase 1 of the plan which is to make ourselves a third tier rugby nation. Second phase is to get drawn into the group of death in the WC by which point everyone has written us off which then leads to the glorious 3rd phase of the plan, win the WC.

It's the stuff movies are made of. Jason Statham to play Tandy and AWJ playing himself as he delivers a pre final spine tingling speech.

 

[Welsh Exile]

It's the stuff movies are made of. Jason Statham to play Tandy and AWJ playing himself as he delivers a pre final spine tingling speech.

Kin hell, Statham as Tandy has actually done me. Well played.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm torn, Wales being bad is very funny, but so is Argentina consistently losing to NH sides but beating SH ones

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'm torn, Wales being bad is very funny, but so is Argentina consistently losing to NH sides but beating SH ones

I'm obviously biased but it would be very funny if Argentina couldn't beat us considering where we're at.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Head says something like Argentina 32 Wales 16.

Heart says Argenina 24 Wales 22

BUT, I had a dream last night that we won by 20 points and AWJ and Tips came off the bench to win so I’m going to go with my cock and go for the Wales win.

 

[dullonien]

I'm quietly optimistic too. Perhaps it's the hope of a new coach bounce, but I also think there's a strong 23 in there.

I think a lot will depend on the start. Confidence could grow/vanish depending on how the first quarter goes.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Even though Argentina are better than us at present we still match up to them very well. They probably are 20 plus points better than us but I don't think they'll win by that much.

I've jinxed it now haven't I.

 

[General Melchett]

Even though Argentina are better than us at present we still match up to them very well. They probably are 20 plus points better than us but I don't think they'll win by that much.

I've jinxed it now haven't I.

Tandy had a big impact on Scotland's D in no time at all. I have a feeling he's one of those coaches who can get a bounce quickly. Fingers crossed.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Tandy had a big impact on Scotland's D in no time at all. I have a feeling he's one of those coaches who can get a bounce quickly. Fingers crossed.

The question will be whether he can make the jump up to head coach. I’m interested to see what kind of identity he wants to imprint on this squad.

 

[General Melchett]

The question will be whether he can make the jump up to head coach. I'm interested to see what kind of identity he wants to imprint on this squad.

They'll run through brick walls for him. I would.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I’ll never look at either of them the same ever again.

 

[dullonien]

The question will be whether he can make the jump up to head coach. I'm interested to see what kind of identity he wants to imprint on this squad.

He had immediate success with the Ospreys too. His issue there was sustaining it, but you'd expect he's learn't a lot from Townsend in that regard, because although Scotland have struggled to genuinely compete for titles, they have always evolved their play to stay current.

Historically, I would be really worried about our scrum in this game, given our options at tighthead, but Arg don't currently rely on outmuscling the opposition, so we may just about get by.

 

[Welsh Exile]

He had immediate success with the Ospreys too. His issue there was sustaining it, but you'd expect he's learn't a lot from Townsend in that regard, because although Scotland have struggled to genuinely compete for ***les, they have always evolved their play to stay current.

Historically, I would be really worried about our scrum in this game, given our options at tighthead, but Arg don't currently rely on outmuscling the opposition, so we may just about get by.

I'm still worried about the scrum but probably more worried about the lineout. I'm positive that we'll **** up at least 3 lineouts on Argentinas 5m line. But hey, Beard will start so at least our maul defence will be good, right?………..right?

 

[Welsh Exile]

@dirty harry what would your match day 23 be?

 

[OllyM97]

Argentina being 1/5 to beat Wales in Cardiff is absolutely bonkers when you think about it. Even under Pivac Wales would have still probably have been favourites in a game like this. The only slither of hope Wales have got here is that Argentina can at times be ordinary in the Autumn and they still have the odd game where they don't turn up.

 

[IT157]

Beard in the team. Wales by 10.

Beard out of the team = record defeat.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Argentina being 1/5 to beat Wales in Cardiff is absolutely bonkers when you think about it. Even under Pivac Wales would have still probably have been favourites in a game like this. The only slither of hope Wales have got here is that Argentina can at times be ordinary in the Autumn and they still have the odd game where they don't turn up.

What’s the odds on a Wales win?

 

[OllyM97]

What's the odds on a Wales win?

Wales are 7/2 to win.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Wales are 7/2 to win.

Easy money.

 

[dullonien]

I think my 23 would be:

01 Nicky Smith
02 Dewi Lake
03 Archie Griffin
04 Dafydd Jenkins
05 Rhys Davies (it'll be Beard though, and he has been playing well in France who generally demand physicality from their locks, so maybe he'll be improved)
06 Taine Plumtree
07 Jack Morgan
08 Aaron Wainwright

09 Tomos Williams
10 Dan Edwards
11 Blair Murray
12 Ben Thomas
13 Max Llewellyn
14 LRZ
15 Tom Rogers

16 Brodie Coghlan
17 Rhys Carre
18 Kieron Assiratti
19 James Fender
20 Alex Mann
21 Morgan Morse
22 Ruben Morgan-Williams
23 Jacob Beetham

I usually dislike a 6-2 bench, but this might be the right time to go for it. And with Beetham able to cover 10 through 15 (although Thomas would probably act as 10 cover realistically) then we could do so without potentially shooting ourselves in the foot unlike when Gats tried it. Beetham could be a really valuable player for us going forwards, so although he has plenty of work-ons I think he's worth testing this Autumn.

I wouldn't be against Hawkins at 12, but Thomas is in better form. It's been difficult to judge Hawkins in a poor Scarlets side, but he's not set the world alight since returning to Wales. I do like what he offers though.

There's a few options at 6. I personally like Plumtree, he's a good balance of athleticism, power, dog + he's a good lineout option. Wouldn't be against Mann starting, or Cracknell, or Morse even.

I'd prefer to see Murray on the wing, where he'll be less exposed earially than at fullback. Rogers is consistently strong earially, so it makes sense to me to have him at fullback.

 

[dirty harry]

@dirty harry what would your match day 23 be?

Im trying not to think about it tbh...

Our problem in our decline from leading NH light in 2019 and world no.1 to now is a lack of quality playing staff, specifically up front and ball carriers.

We have too many passengers in this squad, its difficult to make standards sky high with clubmen hanging around, Asserati, Coughlan, Mann, Southworth, Beetham, Evans, Hardy etc then theres the players whonare a shadow of their former selves, Adams, Falatau, Beard...

I personally would have gone with:

Smith
Lake
Griffin
Fender
Beard
Plumtree
Morgan
Wainright
RMW
Edwards
Hawkins
Llewellyn
Dyer
Rogers
LRZ

Carre
Belcher
Asserati
Jenkins
Morse
Tomos
Thomas
Murray

Our starting lineup gives us plenty of grunt, with some combos at club level, with the option of letting all hell break loose off the bench, Carre, Tomos, Morse and Jenkins upping the tempo, with Thomas and Murray brining the flair on front foot.

Risky i know, key issues being 10 if Edwards goes down (Hawkins to cover), dropping Jenkins and Tomos, and not having a regular FB, but the games ive seen Argentina struggle, they have really been hurt by momentum, theyve had periods of being on top, but in the cases of SA, England and NZ when the pressure camenon theybwilted at times.

I fully dont expect Tandys selection to be as risky (or stupid) as mine

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think my 23 would be:

01 Nicky Smith
02 Dewi Lake
03 Archie Griffin
04 Dafydd Jenkins
05 Rhys Davies (it'll be Beard though, and he has been playing well in France who generally demand physicality from their locks, so maybe he'll be improved)
06 Taine Plumtree
07 Jack Morgan
08 Aaron Wainwright

09 Tomos Williams
10 Dan Edwards
11 Blair Murray
12 Ben Thomas
13 Max Llewellyn
14 LRZ
15 Tom Rogers

16 Brodie Coghlan
17 Rhys Carre
18 Kieron Assiratti
19 James Fender
20 Alex Mann
21 Morgan Morse
22 Ruben Morgan-Williams
23 Jacob Beetham

I usually dislike a 6-2 bench, but this might be the right time to go for it. And with Beetham able to cover 10 through 15 (although Thomas would probably act as 10 cover realistically) then we could do so without potentially shooting ourselves in the foot unlike when Gats tried it. Beetham could be a really valuable player for us going forwards, so although he has plenty of work-ons I think he's worth testing this Autumn.

I wouldn't be against Hawkins at 12, but Thomas is in better form. It's been difficult to judge Hawkins in a poor Scarlets side, but he's not set the world alight since returning to Wales. I do like what he offers though.

There's a few options at 6. I personally like Plumtree, he's a good balance of athleticism, power, dog + he's a good lineout option. Wouldn't be against Mann starting, or Cracknell, or Morse even.

I'd prefer to see Murray on the wing, where he'll be less exposed earially than at fullback. Rogers is consistently strong earially, so it makes sense to me to have him at fullback.

Monepellier are 11th and have already lost 5 games this season.

I like your team but personally wouldn’t play Thomas but I’m happy enough for him to start to prove me wrong. I’d want to see a big performance from him though.

I think Wainwright has to start at 8 but if he moved him to 6 and started Morse Tandy would go up in my estimation. He’d go up even more if Beard doesn’t start. I’d extend his contract by 5 years if Beard wasn’t in the match day 23.

 

[dirty harry]

Monepellier are 11th and have already lost 5 games this season.

I like your team but personally wouldn't play Thomas but I'm happy enough for him to start to prove me wrong. I'd want to see a big performance from him though.

I think Wainwright has to start at 8 but if he moved him to 6 and started Morse Tandy would go up in my estimation. He'd go up even more if Beard doesn't start. I'd extend his contract by 5 years if Beard wasn't in the match day 23.

Id agree on Thomas, hes shown nothing to say hed be able to play int rugby, i would caveat this though last week he put in his best performance in a Cardiff shirt, and looked composed and mature. He wasnt like a headless chicken, he looked phyical ball in hand in the tight, more relaxed on defence, and only went wide and tried things when they were on.

I actually agree with Rogers at FB, Murray is a box of cats in broken play, but you dont get those chances at int rugby, for every sniff of a break hell have to field 7 challenged high balls.

Morse isnt ready, give him another season at club, make him come into the fold banging on the door.

And this is my key issue, of this squad which have had to really work, perform at club level and force thwir way in? Edwards and Carre are the only real names i can think of, maybe Plumtree and Llewellyn? Top teams have younger boys fighting to oust incumbents, we seem to be picking by default, because of lack of options

 

[Welsh Exile]

Price’s team is a just as bad as Jamie Roberts’ team

15 B Murray; 14 L Rees-Zammit, 13 M Llewellyn, 12 B Thomas, 11 J Adams; 10 D Edwards, 9 T Williams; 8 A Wainwright, 7 J Morgan (Captain), 6 T Plumtree, 5 A Beard, 4 D Jenkins, 3 K Assiratti, 2 D Lake, 1 N Smith

Reps: L Belcher, G Thomas , C Coleman, M Morse, F Thomas, R Morgan-Williams, C Sheedy, J Hawkins

 

[wombles]

There are certain factors that go in Wales favour this weekend. A new coaching team, new head coach, new philosophy and different squad selections tend to create a more positive environment in its initial phases. This will certainly pick up the Welsh players levels. Ally this to the fact there will not be as much for Argentina to analyse in how Wales are preparing to play, then these unknowns will level the playing field.

However Wales are not the team they were, and when you look at the squad there are not enough International quality players currently in or coming through that would raise expectations too highly. There is no sign of a golden generation such as Gatland inherited post the 2007 WC. I certainly believe Wales can be more competitive going forward (and a strong Wales is good for the game). But I think breaking into the top 6 in the world or into the top 3 of the 6 Nations or running deep into the WC are beyond them for quite some time at least when you look at the other teams.

This Sunday? on form Argentina are simply too strong (however how much form plays when the ball is kicked is up for debate). But they now have a backline that is right up there and compliments their forward grunt.

The hope of the Welsh nation and boost of the above should mean we see a much more competitive Wales team Sunday who should push and test the Pumas. But I wonder if around the hour mark Argentina's strength and quality will come to the fore.

It will be a fascinating test match!