A Political Thread pt. 2

[Tomma235]

He was only expressing an opinion? or threatening political violence in order to effect a political outcome at an election?

Who are these free speach warriors you speak of, drop a name and lets discuss the detail.

When Connolly was arrested for exhorting people to kill people in one of the most horrific ways possible there were people from all over the right including Musk, Vance and Robinson complaining that free speech was under attack in the UK. Today, silence.

 

[Tomma235]

Threats can be criminal depending on the circumstances.

Given Nigel believes he is the most attacked politician etc etc. I'm sure he'll want the book thrown at the guy.

Sorry but no. If you truly believe in free speech as Musk for example says he does then you can say anything you like.

This is the core problem with free speech, it can only be binary otherwise someone is arbitrarily deciding what someone else can say

 

[dirty harry]

When Connolly was arrested for exhorting people to kill people in one of the most horrific ways possible there were people from all over the right including Musk, Vance and Robinson complaining that free speech was under attack in the UK. Today, silence.

Is there an argument that 'for all i care' was qualifying enough to make the rest of the statement not a call to action? Im not defending Lucy, she was rightfully criminalised in my view, but had this guy said 'get shot in the head for all i care' would that have changed hisnstatement?


Ok, lets take Musk and see what he said...

 

[Tomma235]

Is there an argument that 'for all i care' was qualifying enough to make the rest of the statement not a call to action? Im not defending Lucy, she was rightfully criminalised in my view, but had this guy said 'get shot in the head for all i care' would that have changed hisnstatement?


Ok, lets take Musk and see what he said...

No it was a call to action with a deliberate attempt to build in deniability "look I said for all i care". What if today's guy had added a smiley?

And today Musk has said absolutely nothing which is my point.

 

[Saintjay]

Sorry but no. If you truly believe in free speech as Musk for example says he does then you can say anything you like.

This is the core problem with free speech, it can only be binary otherwise someone is arbitrarily deciding what someone else can say

Because people are idiots.

Even the 1st Amendment has certain restrictions.

You can say what you like, it doesn't mean your immune from the law and consequences.

So you could argue neither the UK or USA has true free speech to say what ever the **** you like.

 

[Tomma235]

Because people are idiots.

Even the 1st Amendment has certain restrictions.

You can say what you like, it doesn't mean your immune from the law and consequences.

So you could argue neither the UK or USA has true free speech to say what ever the **** you like.

And that's the problem. So what we have now is the situation that basically boils down to free speech is only the stuff I believe in.

I'll be honest it's a difficult one. I'd like free speech but it comes at a high price. The next best option is we trust people to legislate in which case both today's guy and Connolly were not expressing free speech.

 

[dirty harry]

No it was a call to action with a deliberate attempt to build in deniability "look I said for all i care". What if today's guy had added a smiley?

And today Musk has said absolutely nothing which is my point.

Thats my question, would this perp saying 'get shot in the head for all i care' make a difference than saying 'im going to shoot you in the head if you win'?

 

[dirty harry]

And that's the problem. So what we have now is the situation that basically boils down to free speech is only the stuff I believe in.

I'll be honest it's a difficult one. I'd like free speech but it comes at a high price. The next best option is we trust people to legislate in which case both today's guy and Connolly were not expressing free speech.

When have you seen these arguments otherwise, you minimised this case because you dislike Farage, you want to agree with the Lucy sentence because shes someone you disagree with...

Free speech isnt a binary at all, even free speech absolutists dont believe in calls to violence etc

 

[Tomma235]

When have you seen these arguments otherwise, you minimised this case because you dislike Farage, you want to agree with the Lucy sentence because shes someone you disagree with...

Free speech isnt a binary at all, even free speech absolutists dont believe in calls to violence etc

Free speech is completely binary otherwise who decides what is unacceptable? Once you have people deciding what is acceptable, it will be subject to their views.

I'm an incredibly tolerant person when it comes to free speech but there are things I would find unpalatable, hence as I say there's a high price. Saying you would shoot someone in the head or telling people to push bins into hotels don't meet my red lines on free speech. I actually think both today's guy and Connolly are stupid for saying things that are deemed illegal and Connolly doubly so for pleading guilty. I do find the hypocrisy irritating though and it currently seems to come from the right.

 

[dirty harry]

Free speech is completely binary otherwise who decides what is unacceptable? Once you have people deciding what is acceptable, it will be subject to their views.

I'm an incredibly tolerant person when it comes to free speech but there are things I would find unpalatable, hence as I say there's a high price. Saying you would shoot someone in the head or telling people to push bins into hotels don't meet my red lines on free speech. I actually think both today's guy and Connolly are stupid for saying things that are deemed illegal and Connolly doubly so for pleading guilty. I do find the hypocrisy irritating though and it currently seems to come from the right.

I couldnt disagree more, both sides are absolutely as bad as each other.

Both cases here i agree are stupid, but one attempt to subvert democracy by making a specific threat of death on a politican should range in a much higher category obviously.

 

[Tomma235]

I couldnt disagree more, both sides are absolutely as bad as each other.

Both cases here i agree are stupid, but one attempt to subvert democracy by making a specific threat of death on a politican should range in a much higher category obviously.

It's either free speech or we don't have free speech. Both of these incidents have fallen foul of the law so then it becomes an issue of do you believe in the rule of law or only the laws you agree with. And who decides which is the higher category : threatening to kill one person or exhorting people to burn hundreds alive?

 

[dirty harry]

It's either free speech or we don't have free speech. Both of these incidents have fallen foul of the law so then it becomes an issue of do you believe in the rule of law or only the laws you agree with. And who decides which is the higher category : threatening to kill one person or exhorting people to burn hundreds alive?

Again your maximising Lucys comments, highlighting your bias.

I think everyone wants free speech, people juat refuse to agree on the threshold, there are some that want 10 year prison sentences for things like mysoginy, homophobia etc, there are some that want criminalisation for racism, flag or bible burning, and then there are some who want the death penalty for blasphemy.

Most of these people need to be ignored, most governments, including the only country with anything resembling free speech want to restric speech as much as possible.

Wheres your threshold? Are you pro children being arrested for stating things like police officers look like their lesbian nanna?

 

[Tomma235]

Again your maximising Lucys comments, highlighting your bias.

I think everyone wants free speech, people juat refuse to agree on the threshold, there are some that want 10 year prison sentences for things like mysoginy, homophobia etc, there are some that want criminalisation for racism, flag or bible burning, and then there are some who want the death penalty for blasphemy.

Most of these people need to be ignored, most governments, including the only country with anything resembling free speech want to restric speech as much as possible.

Wheres your threshold? Are you pro children being arrested for stating things like police officers look like their lesbian nanna?

And you do exactly the same by pretending the guy is a threat to democracy. Again purely demonstrating my point that it can only be binary. As soon as you allow people to decide it stops being free.

I think children disrespecting authority should be dealt with by the parents or police should be given leeway to deal with it themselves.

Flag burning? If a piece of cloth means that much to you then you really need to look at your life. Bible burning, crack on. Spoken or written racism, misogyny etc not my issue but if you get personal about it eg going up to someone and racially abusing them, expect consequences and don't come crying to the state which leads into where the line is: acting and no longer expressing. If you treat someone differently because you don't like their sexuality or race or religion then you've crossed out of free speech.

 

[BathBod]

You have to feel sorry for the right. Their minds are currently blown by the fact the current suspect is white and not a Somalian pirate straight off a dinghy.

Please substantiate this claim with facts and not your wet dream.
Or withdraw it.

 

[Tomma235]

Please substantiate this claim with facts and not your wet dream.
Or withdraw it.

From the BBC website: "The suspect, who is a white British national, is now in police custody," the statement from Devon and Cornwall police said."

 

[dirty harry]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-official-says-hamas-obstructing-aid-gaza-2026-07-13/

Interesting that now the UN are complaining of the same things Isreal were for a long time...

 

[Tomma235]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-official-says-hamas-obstructing-aid-gaza-2026-07-13/

Interesting that now the UN are complaining of the same things Isreal were for a long time...

I wonder if it's been happening for years the same way the Israelis have been obstructing aid getting in. The report doesn't say.

 

[dirty harry]

I wonder if it's been happening for years the same way the Israelis have been obstructing aid getting in. The report doesn't say.

Wait, why do you feel the need to criticise Isreal of something you want them to have committed?

Why not just comment on the article, and how Hamas are now blocking aid from other organisations?

 

[Tomma235]

Wait, why do you feel the need to criticise Isreal of something you want them to have committed?

Why not just comment on the article, and how Hamas are now blocking aid from other organisations?

Simple question, why so defensive? And it's not something I want them to have committed. It's not disputed.

 

[BathBod]

From the BBC website: "The suspect, who is a white British national, is now in police custody," the statement from Devon and Cornwall police said."

You don't read the questions - you make up answers and quote BBC
Where is your proof that British Working Class have their minds blown by a declaration of someone assisting the police with their enquiries whilst under arrest.

Please try again

 

[Tomma235]

You don't read the questions - you make up answers and quote BBC
Where is your proof that British Working Class have their minds blown by a declaration of someone assisting the police with their enquiries whilst under arrest.

Please try again

Ha ha ha. You accuse me of not reading the question. Where did I mention the British working class you numpty. You asked me to substantiate my claim that a white person had been arrested, I did.

I really hope you're good at rugby.

 

[dirty harry]

Simple question, why so defensive? And it's not something I want them to have committed. It's not disputed.

Im not defencive, i pasted a link to an article about the UN complaining that Hamas is blocking aid, as they have been doing forever, and i found it interesting to see them do it now to UN aid agencies.

The UN on numerous occasions accused Isreal of blocking aid, and rejected the reason that it was too dangerous to send aid workers in because of Hamas.

Why would you start accusing Isreal in a story about the UN being attacked by Hamas?

 

[Tomma235]

Im not defencive, i pasted a link to an article about the UN complaining that Hamas is blocking aid, as they have been doing forever, and i found it interesting to see them do it now to UN aid agencies.

The UN on numerous occasions accused Isreal of blocking aid, and rejected the reason that it was too dangerous to send aid workers in because of Hamas.

Why would you start accusing Isreal in a story about the UN being attacked by Hamas?

I didn't accuse them of anything. I asked a simple question that is related to the story. Hamas are currently disrupting aid, Israel have disrupted aid repeatedly over the last two years. I think you might need a lie down, you've been over taxing yourself.

 

[dirty harry]

I didn't accuse them of anything. I asked a simple question that is related to the story. Hamas are currently disrupting aid, Israel have disrupted aid repeatedly over the last two years. I think you might need a lie down, you've been over taxing yourself.

You can tell yourself that, but your ricer to the sea T short is clearly visible from here hahaha

 

[BathBod]

Threats can be criminal depending on the circumstances.

Given Nigel believes he is the most attacked politician etc etc. I'm sure he'll want the book thrown at the guy.

Why would only Nigel want the book thrown at the guy. Most decent minded citizens of this country would probably coincide with Nigel don't you think?

 

[BathBod]

Ha ha ha. You accuse me of not reading the question. Where did I mention the British working class you numpty. You asked me to substantiate my claim that a white person had been arrested, I did.

I really hope you're good at rugby.

Lets try again

" Their minds are currently blown by the fact the current suspect is white and not a Somalian pirate straight off a dinghy"

"Their" ??? Whose minds? - the minds of most decent folks are you implying? If not then specify this group you aspire to identify. Why is this group, (once you've worked out and explained who they are) so worried by the cultural/racial roots of the detained suspect being questioned?


You make these broad brush declarations with the vigor of some sort of expert comenetator - all I'm requesting is more detail to your assetions to kind of allow us plebs to understand your superior insight on these matters.

CSE Grade 5 English was it?

 

[Saintjay]

Why would only Nigel want the book thrown at the guy. Most decent minded citizens of this country would probably coincide with Nigel don't you think?

I don't recall his and others decent mindedness advocating for Lucy Connolly to be sent to court.

 

[BathBod]

I don't recall his and others decent mindedness advocating for Lucy Connolly to be sent to court.

Your memory is impeccable. The only ones advocating for the prosecution of Connolly were Starmer and Hermer

 

[Tomma235]

Lets try again

" Their minds are currently blown by the fact the current suspect is white and not a Somalian pirate straight off a dinghy"

"Their" ??? Whose minds? - the minds of most decent folks are you implying? If not then specify this group you aspire to identify. Why is this group, (once you've worked out and explained who they are) so worried by the cultural/racial roots of the detained suspect being questioned?


You make these broad brush declarations with the vigor of some sort of expert comenetator - all I'm requesting is more detail to your assetions to kind of allow us plebs to understand your superior insight on these matters.

CSE Grade 5 English was it?

I did specify, you have just decided to selectively quote this time rather than deliberately misquote so I guess we're making progress. If I brought it down to words of one syllable I wouldn't reach your level of misunderstanding. As you've shown in the other thread you're illiterate.

 

[Tomma235]

Your memory is impeccable. The only ones advocating for the prosecution of Connolly were Starmer and Hermer

Connolly pleaded guilty. Perhaps we should remember that.