England 2025/26

[Ragey Erasmus]

I mean, I would be down to try Martin at 6 again
I will be interested to see what Sarries do with their locks, I wonder if Itoje might play more at 6 again would potentially give him greater longevity.

But we do have big boys about
Batley (Bristol) 19st 9
Dunn (BRistol) 19st 11
Tuima (Exeter) 20st 2
Clark (Gloucester) 19st 11
E.Williams (Quins) 19st 5
CCS (Quins) 18st 12
L.Chessum (Tigers) 19st 2
O.Chessum (Tigers) 18st 11
Martin (Tigers) 19st 13
Coles (Saints) 19st
Prowse (Saints) 19st 5
Munga (Saints) 18st 12
Hogg (Sale) 18st 12
Bamber (Sale) 19st 11
Isiewke (Sarries) 18st 11
Tizard (Sarries) 18st 12
Sodeke (Sarries) 19st 11
Sylvester (Sarries) 19st 11

Don't get me wrong, these are not all International level but most have played lock or back row. If anything the last few Eng U20's have shown we are producing some big boys

Martin is one that always surprises me. I don't know why but when I see him on TV he doesn't seem particularly large.

Then again Lawes always seemed skinny but hit like a freight train. Unfortunately he developed his carrying later in his career.

 

[Geordie]

Martin is one that always surprises me. I don't know why but when I see him on TV he doesn't seem particularly large.

Then again Lawes always seemed skinny but hit like a freight train. Unfortunately he developed his carrying later in his career.

Yeah ive heard Tigers fans say hes absolutely enormous when you stand next to him.

 

[Geordie]

I mean, I would be down to try Martin at 6 again
I will be interested to see what Sarries do with their locks, I wonder if Itoje might play more at 6 again would potentially give him greater longevity.

But we do have big boys about
Batley (Bristol) 19st 9
Dunn (BRistol) 19st 11
Tuima (Exeter) 20st 2
Clark (Gloucester) 19st 11
E.Williams (Quins) 19st 5
CCS (Quins) 18st 12
L.Chessum (Tigers) 19st 2
O.Chessum (Tigers) 18st 11
Martin (Tigers) 19st 13
Coles (Saints) 19st
Prowse (Saints) 19st 5
Munga (Saints) 18st 12
Hogg (Sale) 18st 12
Bamber (Sale) 19st 11
Isiewke (Sarries) 18st 11
Tizard (Sarries) 18st 12
Sodeke (Sarries) 19st 11
Sylvester (Sarries) 19st 11

Don't get me wrong, these are not all International level but most have played lock or back row. If anything the last few Eng U20's have shown we are producing some big boys

Ill stand corrected that we cant produce big units...we clearly do. Theres some big numbers there.

How many of those possess the power to influence a game like George Martin can, or Billy Vunipola did etc? Or am i being unfair?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Martin is one that always surprises me. I don't know why but when I see him on TV he doesn't seem particularly large.

Then again Lawes always seemed skinny but hit like a freight train. Unfortunately he developed his carrying later in his career.

Martin shoulder are huge in person

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ill stand corrected that we cant produce big units...we clearly do. Theres some big numbers there.

How many of those possess the power to influence a game like George Martin can, or Billy Vunipola did etc? Or am i being unfair?

How many get given a chance I guess

It wasn’t really until SA game Martin made people take notice of him fully

Also another interesting comparison would be the amount of games the big lads play a season in SA v England

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I mean, I would be down to try Martin at 6 again
I will be interested to see what Sarries do with their locks, I wonder if Itoje might play more at 6 again would potentially give him greater longevity.

But we do have big boys about
Batley (Bristol) 19st 9
Dunn (BRistol) 19st 11
Tuima (Exeter) 20st 2
Clark (Gloucester) 19st 11
E.Williams (Quins) 19st 5
CCS (Quins) 18st 12
L.Chessum (Tigers) 19st 2
O.Chessum (Tigers) 18st 11
Martin (Tigers) 19st 13
Coles (Saints) 19st
Prowse (Saints) 19st 5
Munga (Saints) 18st 12
Hogg (Sale) 18st 12
Bamber (Sale) 19st 11
Isiewke (Sarries) 18st 11
Tizard (Sarries) 18st 12
Sodeke (Sarries) 19st 11
Sylvester (Sarries) 19st 11

Don't get me wrong, these are not all International level but most have played lock or back row. If anything the last few Eng U20's have shown we are producing some big boys

Against these Ilone is given as 115 (18 st 2) by Tigers. Height’s somewhere around 1.89. That’s plenty big and powerful enough for an athletic 8.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Against these Ilone is given as 115 (18 st 2) by Tigers. Height’s somewhere around 1.89. That’s plenty big and powerful enough for an athletic 8.

And with his frame he could prob get heavier if he wanted

But he doesn’t need too

 

[Geordie]

Against these Ilone is given as 115 (18 st 2) by Tigers. Height’s somewhere around 1.89. That’s plenty big and powerful enough for an athletic 8.

Its about the same as Gregory Aldritt....who wasnt a bad number 8, and they probably have a similar game type

 

[Geordie]

And with his frame he could prob get heavier if he wanted

But he doesn’t need too

Is he back training or still injured?

 

[Geordie]

Completely out there off the cuff....What do you think of a back row such as...

6 Illione
7 Earl (Pollock off the bench)
8 Barbaery (if the move goes well)

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

And with his frame he could prob get heavier if he wanted

But he doesn’t need too

Yep.

He’s a naturally big framed guy, whereas both Curry and Earl have clearly at various times bulked right up - Earl’s physique and game seem to have coped well but I don’t think that’s always been the case for Curry.

We keep saying that so and so should get bigger or lose weight or get quicker etc but obviously we have little insight into their personal physiology. Lawes was another - he just couldn’t retain additional weight.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yep.

He’s a naturally big framed guy, whereas both Curry and Earl have clearly at various times bulked right up - Earl’s physique and game seem to have coped well but I don’t think that’s always been the case for Curry.

We keep saying that so and so should get bigger or lose weight or get quicker etc but obviously we have little insight into their personal physiology. Lawes was another - he just couldn’t retain additional weight.

Whilst there may sometimes be room for improvement, I do feel people tend to have natural weights and aptitudes. Good coaching should really lean into this rather than fighting against it. If you have someone who doesn't put on muscle but has an engine that can run at full throttle for an entire game, don't tell them to bulk up and run at brick walls.

If you need a player to do that, look for a player naturally suited for that. I can't think of many players where England coaching has tried to substantially change them compared to their clubs and it has worked out.

The one that always sticks in my mind was Lancaster deciding we needed a much lighter, more athletic pack. Rather than selecting players like that, he got the likes of Dan Cole to shed weight and work on his work rate. End result? Massive loss of power for negligible increase in mobility. We went through an era where we couldn't win scrums or the breakdown if our lives depended on it.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Is he back training or still

He’s in preseason training atm

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The issue I have with people saying Martin to 6 is all we are doing is shuffling the pack round.

Why move Chessum who’s done really well there for Martin? Is Chessum a better scrummager or quicker off the scrum?

I’d argue Cole’s is the fastest of the three, does he go to 6? Which out of the three are better scrummagers and have those at lock.


In my mind 6 looks good, 8 there is no choice and Earl has played well. 7 is the issue, pollock would need experience there, pepper and curry both look underwhelming and haven’t offered that jackle threat.

Where is undersmash one of our top players.

 

[Geordie]

The issue I have with people saying Martin to 6 is all we are doing is shuffling the pack round.

Why move Chessum who’s done really well there for Martin? Is Chessum a better scrummager or quicker off the scrum?

I’d argue Cole’s is the fastest of the three, does he go to 6? Which out of the three are better scrummagers and have those at lock.


In my mind 6 looks good, 8 there is no choice and Earl has played well. 7 is the issue, pollock would need experience there, pepper and curry both look underwhelming and haven’t offered that jackle threat.

Where is undersmash one of our top players.

For the moment the 4/5/6 anchor is:
4 Martin (Please stay fit! )
5 Coles
6 Chessum

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

There are arguments against it, but Itoje will presumably come straight back in. I’d assume he’ll be paired with Martin with Chessum at 6 and Coles to bench.

At some point I think Pollock will take 7, although not sure whether he’ll be unleashed this side of the RWC. Earl’s done well at 8 and I assume he’s got the gig through to the RWC and yet I’d still prefer a bigger guy like Ilone or CCS although he now has a fair bit of ground to make up.

 

[Geordie]

There are arguments against it, but Itoje will presumably come straight back in. I’d assume he’ll be paired with Martin with Chessum at 6 and Coles to bench.

At some point I think Pollock will take 7, although not sure whether he’ll be unleashed this side of the RWC. Earl’s done well at 8 and I assume he’s got the gig through to the RWC and yet I’d still prefer a bigger guy like Ilone or CCS although he now has a fair bit of ground to make up.

Im not sure Itoje should come straight back in now. Martin is your powerhouse. Coles and Chessum are bigger athletic options. Coles 35 tackles v Argentina is insane and proves hes now reached the level of being a good international lock. Itoje is top class but having 4 optiions now means we dont have to flog Itoje and can use him right.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Im not sure Itoje should come straight back in now.

Agreed. But I’ll be amazed if he doesn’t.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He's had the summer off, that's the not flogging him part tbh
He was in excellent form for Saracens in the run in, if he's anywhere near even 80% of his best form he's an easy starter

 

[Ddanno]

I'm always baffled at suggestions to drop Itoje, he's been our best player in terms of consistency for years