England 2025/26

[Ragey Erasmus]

I mean, I would be down to try Martin at 6 again
I will be interested to see what Sarries do with their locks, I wonder if Itoje might play more at 6 again would potentially give him greater longevity.

But we do have big boys about
Batley (Bristol) 19st 9
Dunn (BRistol) 19st 11
Tuima (Exeter) 20st 2
Clark (Gloucester) 19st 11
E.Williams (Quins) 19st 5
CCS (Quins) 18st 12
L.Chessum (Tigers) 19st 2
O.Chessum (Tigers) 18st 11
Martin (Tigers) 19st 13
Coles (Saints) 19st
Prowse (Saints) 19st 5
Munga (Saints) 18st 12
Hogg (Sale) 18st 12
Bamber (Sale) 19st 11
Isiewke (Sarries) 18st 11
Tizard (Sarries) 18st 12
Sodeke (Sarries) 19st 11
Sylvester (Sarries) 19st 11

Don't get me wrong, these are not all International level but most have played lock or back row. If anything the last few Eng U20's have shown we are producing some big boys

Martin is one that always surprises me. I don't know why but when I see him on TV he doesn't seem particularly large.

Then again Lawes always seemed skinny but hit like a freight train. Unfortunately he developed his carrying later in his career.

 

[Geordie]

Martin is one that always surprises me. I don't know why but when I see him on TV he doesn't seem particularly large.

Then again Lawes always seemed skinny but hit like a freight train. Unfortunately he developed his carrying later in his career.

Yeah ive heard Tigers fans say hes absolutely enormous when you stand next to him.

 

[Geordie]

I mean, I would be down to try Martin at 6 again
I will be interested to see what Sarries do with their locks, I wonder if Itoje might play more at 6 again would potentially give him greater longevity.

But we do have big boys about
Batley (Bristol) 19st 9
Dunn (BRistol) 19st 11
Tuima (Exeter) 20st 2
Clark (Gloucester) 19st 11
E.Williams (Quins) 19st 5
CCS (Quins) 18st 12
L.Chessum (Tigers) 19st 2
O.Chessum (Tigers) 18st 11
Martin (Tigers) 19st 13
Coles (Saints) 19st
Prowse (Saints) 19st 5
Munga (Saints) 18st 12
Hogg (Sale) 18st 12
Bamber (Sale) 19st 11
Isiewke (Sarries) 18st 11
Tizard (Sarries) 18st 12
Sodeke (Sarries) 19st 11
Sylvester (Sarries) 19st 11

Don't get me wrong, these are not all International level but most have played lock or back row. If anything the last few Eng U20's have shown we are producing some big boys

Ill stand corrected that we cant produce big units...we clearly do. Theres some big numbers there.

How many of those possess the power to influence a game like George Martin can, or Billy Vunipola did etc? Or am i being unfair?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Martin is one that always surprises me. I don't know why but when I see him on TV he doesn't seem particularly large.

Then again Lawes always seemed skinny but hit like a freight train. Unfortunately he developed his carrying later in his career.

Martin shoulder are huge in person

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ill stand corrected that we cant produce big units...we clearly do. Theres some big numbers there.

How many of those possess the power to influence a game like George Martin can, or Billy Vunipola did etc? Or am i being unfair?

How many get given a chance I guess

It wasn’t really until SA game Martin made people take notice of him fully

Also another interesting comparison would be the amount of games the big lads play a season in SA v England

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I mean, I would be down to try Martin at 6 again
I will be interested to see what Sarries do with their locks, I wonder if Itoje might play more at 6 again would potentially give him greater longevity.

But we do have big boys about
Batley (Bristol) 19st 9
Dunn (BRistol) 19st 11
Tuima (Exeter) 20st 2
Clark (Gloucester) 19st 11
E.Williams (Quins) 19st 5
CCS (Quins) 18st 12
L.Chessum (Tigers) 19st 2
O.Chessum (Tigers) 18st 11
Martin (Tigers) 19st 13
Coles (Saints) 19st
Prowse (Saints) 19st 5
Munga (Saints) 18st 12
Hogg (Sale) 18st 12
Bamber (Sale) 19st 11
Isiewke (Sarries) 18st 11
Tizard (Sarries) 18st 12
Sodeke (Sarries) 19st 11
Sylvester (Sarries) 19st 11

Don't get me wrong, these are not all International level but most have played lock or back row. If anything the last few Eng U20's have shown we are producing some big boys

Against these Ilone is given as 115 (18 st 2) by Tigers. Height’s somewhere around 1.89. That’s plenty big and powerful enough for an athletic 8.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Against these Ilone is given as 115 (18 st 2) by Tigers. Height’s somewhere around 1.89. That’s plenty big and powerful enough for an athletic 8.

And with his frame he could prob get heavier if he wanted

But he doesn’t need too

 

[Geordie]

Against these Ilone is given as 115 (18 st 2) by Tigers. Height’s somewhere around 1.89. That’s plenty big and powerful enough for an athletic 8.

Its about the same as Gregory Aldritt....who wasnt a bad number 8, and they probably have a similar game type

 

[Geordie]

And with his frame he could prob get heavier if he wanted

But he doesn’t need too

Is he back training or still injured?

 

[Geordie]

Completely out there off the cuff....What do you think of a back row such as...

6 Illione
7 Earl (Pollock off the bench)
8 Barbaery (if the move goes well)

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

And with his frame he could prob get heavier if he wanted

But he doesn’t need too

Yep.

He’s a naturally big framed guy, whereas both Curry and Earl have clearly at various times bulked right up - Earl’s physique and game seem to have coped well but I don’t think that’s always been the case for Curry.

We keep saying that so and so should get bigger or lose weight or get quicker etc but obviously we have little insight into their personal physiology. Lawes was another - he just couldn’t retain additional weight.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yep.

He’s a naturally big framed guy, whereas both Curry and Earl have clearly at various times bulked right up - Earl’s physique and game seem to have coped well but I don’t think that’s always been the case for Curry.

We keep saying that so and so should get bigger or lose weight or get quicker etc but obviously we have little insight into their personal physiology. Lawes was another - he just couldn’t retain additional weight.

Whilst there may sometimes be room for improvement, I do feel people tend to have natural weights and aptitudes. Good coaching should really lean into this rather than fighting against it. If you have someone who doesn't put on muscle but has an engine that can run at full throttle for an entire game, don't tell them to bulk up and run at brick walls.

If you need a player to do that, look for a player naturally suited for that. I can't think of many players where England coaching has tried to substantially change them compared to their clubs and it has worked out.

The one that always sticks in my mind was Lancaster deciding we needed a much lighter, more athletic pack. Rather than selecting players like that, he got the likes of Dan Cole to shed weight and work on his work rate. End result? Massive loss of power for negligible increase in mobility. We went through an era where we couldn't win scrums or the breakdown if our lives depended on it.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Is he back training or still

He’s in preseason training atm