Spring Tour: South Africa - England - 1st Test (09/06/2012, 16:00 GMT)

[Amobokoboko]

Only saw the second half. Good rugby from SA. That try by JdV was quiet impressive. England made a fist and tried to come back.
Looking forward to next week's game.

 

[Peat]

I feel this was England's best chance to win a game against us, don't see them winning any now (except against the awful baa baa teams)

This. It grates on me that we had the chance to ambush the Bok and threw it away in trying to arm-wrestle them. We won't win barring a Bok injury crisis, sudden development of a passing game, or a big slice of luck.

10-12-13 is hard to call on - It's worked well enough to us to win most of our games with it and it gave the South Africans a good game. Can we really change it just because we didn't beat a fantastic team away from home? Don't get me wrong, there's lots we need to add to our midfield game, but we're not going to find better defenders than Barritt. Allen is a more creative ballplaying 12 but against the boks we need Barritt really. It would seem to be a bit reactionary to change what has generally been effective. What we need to change in my opinion is the way our wingers work off 13 - for the moment, Tuilagi.

On Wade, you have a point Peat, but so far every player we've thrown into the deepend with debuts has done well, and having an experienced back 3 coping well under the highball didn't help us win the game. Surely we need to try something different somewhere, and Wade is good infield as well as on his wing

Yeah, but those players we chucked in without an obvious weakness. Wade's different. I want to see him go well in the midweeks first. Also, there's no use to a winger who's good in-field when only the scrum-half and forwards might give him the ball there.

Right.

*deep calming breath*

It is my considered opinion that all of Lancaster's good work so far has been achieved in spite of the midfield axis' attacking game, not because of it. Most of our wins have been rather narrow and mildly lucky, mildly lucky and entirely down to the scrum, or rather good but sod all to do with the midfield's attack (France). It has not been effective. It is a huge problem area and it needs addressing as a matter of urgency. I understand they are excellent in defence and that is not something to throw away lightly, but we will never defend our way to victory against the top sides. We must find a balance. And it is absolutely the place to start trying something different. Not the back-three.

That does not mean chucking away all of the unit, but it means at least some changes. Which, incidentally, includes either Tuilagi passing so there's a point in the back three working off him, or Tuilagi being dropped/moved. And, while I feel guilty about being so hard on a young lad, it has to start with Farrell being dropped until he learns his trade. Right now all we have is a mildly upgraded version of Johnson's midfield. It is not good enough. Not by a long shot.

*and breathe*

There. Not one swear word. Right now I feel optimistic about Lancaster, but if he continues using that midfield unit it will disappear like snow in hell. It is the single biggest problem in the England team by some distance in my opinion.

Oh, and South Africa were not excellent. Good, ruthless - NZ were excellent.

 

[Sker]

Your fullback had quite a boot on him, I'm looking forward to next week's game, it's at that huge 90,000 capacity stadium right?

 

[Draggs]

Pleasantly surprised with Bananas. Wasn't going to score but took the ball over the gainline and worked hard.
What is the point of playing Morné if he can't kick?
Francois was pretty good, he just needs to stop stepping inside, he isn't as agile as he thinks. Hougaard nearly cost the Boks, going for the free kick over a penalty straight in front. It is crucial that Meyer tries out a few other scrum halves this year, over the course of the incoming tours, Four Nations, and outbound tours.

@Sker, nope, second test is at Ellis Park, with the third test in Port Elizabeth.

 

[peanuts40]

Only changes for next week should be Lambie and Daniel in for M.Steyn and Spies.

Hougaard didn't have a great game, but at the moment I wouldn't feel confident at all starting Pienaar or Vermaak.

 

[Sker]

Hougaard didn't have a good game? Have you been reading SARugby.com or am I the only one who thought Hougaard was absolutely everywhere, his defense was great.

 

[Darwin]

Right, watched this game in a sleep deprived state after quite a few beers, so probably didn't take in as much from the match as I normally would. South Africa thoroughly deserved the win, and probably should have won by more if they have been more clinical. A few random thoughts:

- I was impressed with Johnson for England - he was very good at the breakdown, and was a handy option in the lineout. He didn't really offer a lot with ball in hand though, which is one area that he will look to improve next week. Robshaw was good too, but Morgan looked a bit ponderous at times.
- Youngs was pretty average - will he even be in the 22 next week?
- Barritt and Farrell defended well, but don't really offer anything on attack (though we knew that well before this game). Tuilagi had plenty of runs, but was well contained by Steyn and de Villiers.
- Brown was ok, but Foden needs to be back at fullback next week.
- The South African scrum was more impressive than I predicted, while Etzebeth and Kruger both made strong debuts.
- Alberts had an outstanding game, which I certainly didn't expect after talking him down before the match! It will be interesting to see whether he can maintain that form next weekend. Coetzee and Spies both played well too.
- Steyn and de Villiers were good in the midfield - de Villiers showed some great pace at times.
- Habana was very sharp, he seems to have a new lease of life at the moment. Kirchner was average (at best). It will be interesting if he is persisted with next week.

 

[coonor]

It's a tricky situation but I don't think changing the 10-12-13 axis is going to be that beneficial. For example if Flood-Farrell-Joseph step into the role to me it looks far to physically weak. England need to stop SA on the gain line and force them backwards, I just think playing Flood and Farrell together is going to put even more pressure on the England back row to cover across, thus further leaving the fringes exposed. England need to however bring more runners into the game. As mentioned before the wingers need to give more options and provide support.

 

[Peat]

It's a tricky situation but I don't think changing the 10-12-13 axis is going to be that beneficial. For example if Flood-Farrell-Joseph step into the role to me it looks far to physically weak. England need to stop SA on the gain line and force them backwards, I just think playing Flood and Farrell together is going to put even more pressure on the England back row to cover across, thus further leaving the fringes exposed. England need to however bring more runners into the game. As mentioned before the wingers need to give more options and provide support.

Not only would playing Flood-Farrell at 10-12 weaken our defence, it would also accomplish the staggering task of weakening our attack further as well. At least Barritt offers go forwards.

My desired improvement would be a new fly-half, any new fly-half, and then maybe a new centre, particularly if Barritt's face is too mashed up to play. I'd be happy with either of Allen-Tuilagi or Tuilagi-Joseph. But I'd also be happy with Flood-Barritt-Tuilagi if it came to it.

The only one of my proposed partnerships that could be seen as weakening the defensive line is FH-Allen-Tuilagi. Even then, it's fairly strong.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I keep forgetting that Allen is touring - if Barritt is out I'd definitely get him in there at 12.

 

[eot345]

The problem with SA is that they're soo bloody physicall england dern't try a back line with any more than one non meat head creative player e.g flood and josph and wade in the same team would be considered too light weight and weak. thought marler did ok-ish im sure roundtree will work his magic through the week. PDJ was exposed and overpowered. only bringing 1 international standard hooker on tour was a mistake by england. I feel we need the physicallity of Haskell in the team (mabe the bench). England always relys on physically edging the opposition we cant do this against SA at the moment and so i fear england will struggle in the next test

 

[Draggs]

Hougaard didn't have a good game? Have you been reading SARugby.com or am I the only one who thought Hougaard was absolutely everywhere, his defense was great.

He was indeed, but that quick tap was unforgivable. Could have really put the English away.
I think we will see Patrick at fullback next week. Shame in one sense. Bloody Joe Pietersen had to have a drop in form
Never thought Jannie had that much pace, for his break. Meyer had his wish, a win, now they must continue to build.

 

[Peat]

The problem with SA is that they're soo bloody physicall england dern't try a back line with any more than one non meat head creative player e.g flood and josph and wade in the same team would be considered too light weight and weak. thought marler did ok-ish im sure roundtree will work his magic through the week. PDJ was exposed and overpowered. only bringing 1 international standard hooker on tour was a mistake by england. I feel we need the physicallity of Haskell in the team (mabe the bench). England always relys on physically edging the opposition we cant do this against SA at the moment and so i fear england will struggle in the next test

a) What other international standard hooker do we have?
b) You do realise Joseph has a better defensive record than Tuilagi this season, right? Joseph's not a soft option.

 

[racingmetrofan]

The problem with SA is that they're soo bloody physicall england dern't try a back line with any more than one non meat head creative player e.g flood and josph and wade in the same team would be considered too light weight and weak. thought marler did ok-ish im sure roundtree will work his magic through the week. PDJ was exposed and overpowered. only bringing 1 international standard hooker on tour was a mistake by england. I feel we need the physicallity of Haskell in the team (mabe the bench). England always relys on physically edging the opposition we cant do this against SA at the moment and so i fear england will struggle in the next test

We don't have another international standard hooker.

 

[Teh Mite]

Joe Grey, Mike Heywood and Tom Youngs should put pay to that soon enough. None are equal to Hartley (yet) mind you.

 

[kusta]

Would love to see Lambie at 10, I think the partnership between him and Frans Steyn would be palpable! And at the rate that Morne steyn is inconsistent with his kicking, putting Lambie there wouldn't be such a gamble! Anyway don't think we will see that, but I can't wait to see it wen Frans Steyn plays 4 the Sharks and have whitehead at 13, that's gonna be one helluva backline! Probably best in SA.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Will Barritt be playing the rest of the series??? That eye looked pretty bad when he went off... Bob Skinstad mentioned that it looked like an Eye-socket fracture because it swelled up in a matter of seconds...

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[coonor]

If I were Meyer I'd be trying to attacking the scrum further aswell. The Beast certainly had a significant upper hand on Cole and it would have been interesting to see how many penalties they would have won if the ball was kept in a bit longer.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I thought SA played rather poorly in that we were butchering opportunities with silly mistakes. The intensity made up for it but I felt we should have put this game away.

Glad to see the defensive improvements that were made over the RWC are still there.

Spies, kirschner and M Steyn should make way IMO. We got one-upped at the breakdown and I feel Brussow coming in with Coetzee moving to 8 and Spies getting the boot will go a long way to helping us out. Steyn scoring a try is probably the worst hing we could have had as he will in all likelyhood retain his place even though Lambie is incomparably more ale to direct traffic and doesn't give away anything at kicking for the posts compared to the current M Steyn and then there is F Steyn as another kicking option. Kirschner and Olivier who came off the bench are solid enough Superrugby players but not test players, please can see some test quality players come into the mix now that the water has been tested?

Hougaard brings a lot to the table but two things bug me about him; he takes his sweet time to clear a ball and with England bossing us at the breakdown he can't afford to do so and the other being he takes way too long to kick and he hasn't reached the accuracy of an on-form FdP in that department so i feel he needs to adapt his game to his stregths which are very Will Genia-ish.

I absolutely loved seeing the Free State pair of Oosthuizen and Strauss come off the bench!

Alberts had a massive game. I was concerned about his form for the Sharks but have to admit he hasn't had a bad game for the Boks yet on the side of the scrum.

Looking forward to see which team takes the most out of this match and who will make the most headway in the 'arms-race' over the week.

 

[coonor]

Hougaard is definitely going to struggle when the new "use it" law is implemented!