First All Black training squad for 2013

[Larksea]

Blues: Frank Halai, Steven Luatua, Keven Mealamu, Charles Piutau, Rene Ranger, Francis Saili, Piri Weepu and Ali Williams.

Chiefs: Ben Afeaki, Sam Cane, Aaron Cruden, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Liam Messam and Brodie Retallick.

Hurricanes: Beauden Barrett, Dane Coles, Ben Franks, TJ Perenara, Julian Savea, Brad Shields, Conrad Smith, Jeff Toomaga-Allen and Victor Vito.

Crusaders: Dominic Bird, Daniel Carter, Wyatt Crockett, Israel Dagg, Owen Franks, Kieran Read, Luke Romano, Tom Taylor and Samuel Whitelock.

Highlanders: Hosea Gear, Andrew Hore, Ma'a Nonu, Aaron Smith, Ben Smith and Tony Woodcock.

Hate to say I told you so but I notice one Tom Taylor's name on the list Obviously doesn't mean he will make the full squad but at least that he is in contention and seen as an option. Fairly interesting squad, lots of new names, down side is the lack of interesting selections at hooker.

chiefs a bit hard done by with only 6 where the Canes have 8 and the landers have 6 figure that one out. Only explanation is the number of chiefs regulars currently injured. and also maybe Renee's rotation selection policy which only really allows a small group to perform every week.

By Position:

Props:
Ben Afeaki, Jeff Toomaga-Allen, Wyatt Crockett, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Tony Woodcock

Hooker:
Keven Mealamu, Andrew Hore, Dane Coles

lock:
Ali Williams, Brodie Retallick, Dominic Bird, Luke Romano, Samuel Whitelock

loosies:
Steven Luatua, Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Brad Shields, Victor Vito, Kieran Read

9:
Piri Weepu, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith

10:
Aaron Cruden, Beauden Barrett, Daniel Carter

midfield:
Rene Ranger, Francis Saili, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu

outside backs:
Charles Piutau, Frank Halai, Julian Savea, Israel Dagg, Hosea Gear

Utility backs:
Ben Smith, Tom Taylor

 

[donmcdazzle]

Tom Taylor is only there because Tamati Ellison is going to Japan.

Ali Williams.. how badly does he have to play before he is dropped? I'm sure he has incriminating photographs of every coach in NZ as he constantly gets picked depsite being horrible. I get that he has experience, doesn't counter act the part about him not being able to play rugby very well though.

 

[nickdnz]

I thought Taylor would be selected - he was selected as cover during the EOYT last year. My point is more that he shouldn't be selected, on the basis he adds no value to the team other than decent goal kicking which Cruden, Carter, Weepu and Barrett are all more than capable of.

To be fair to Ali Williams, I actually think this has been his best season since 2008. I wouldn't be suprised if Hansen was Ali Williams' uncle or something, but some of his selections in the past have been remarkably sh*t, but this isn't one of the worst ones. That said - he's not an option for the future by any means and we already have players like Dominic Bird who has played extremely well. Also - if you're going for experience for one more season I'd say Brad Thorn has been in even better form in a losing Highlanders pack.

Some selections still seem to be entirely developmental. Big fan of Jeffery Toomaga-Allen but he's not ready to be an All Black prop. Frank Halai is the closest I thought Hansen would be to picking a bolter, but I can't see him making the final squad either.

 

[Larksea]

"Tom Taylor is only there because Tamati Ellison is going to Japan."

could be true but Francis Saili looks more like an Ellison replacement, even so just missing the important bit which is " and he is seen as the next best option"

I think Ali Williams has been playing quite well my only problem with him right now is his discipline. I think he's been giving away too many penalties, maybe being a bit too crafty to make up for the fact that he's not 25 anymore.

It's also true that one of the reasons he's picked is because he probably knows more about lineouts than anyone else in New Zealand. A must have considering the age and experience levels of the other locks in the squad.

Interesting that Sam Cane is the only 7 in the squad. Not taking the chance to get another open side involved while McCaw is out on leave. Of the rest maybe Messam would be the next guy in line due to the fact he's a bit lighter on his feet than the other guys.

 

[donmcdazzle]

"Tom Taylor is only there because Tamati Ellison is going to Japan."

could be true but Francis Saili looks more like an Ellison replacement, even so just missing the important bit which is " and he is seen as the next best option"

I think Ali Williams has been playing quite well my only problem with him right now is his discipline. I think he's been giving away too many penalties, maybe being a bit too crafty to make up for the fact that he's not 25 anymore.

It's also true that one of the reasons he's picked is because he probably knows more about lineouts than anyone else in New Zealand. A must have considering the age and experience levels of the other locks in the squad.

Interesting that Sam Cane is the only 7 in the squad. Not taking the chance to get another open side involved while McCaw is out on leave. Of the rest maybe Messam would be the next guy in line due to the fact he's a bit lighter on his feet than the other guys.

So hire him as a coach. He does not warrant a spot in the final squad at all. Being not as bad as previous years still doesn't mean he is good.

 

[FlukeArtist]

James Parsons should have been there. Best NZ Hooker playing at the moment

 

[donmcdazzle]

James Parsons should have been there. Best NZ Hooker playing at the moment

Isn't he injured?

 

[Larksea]

I think he has a role to play as a player as well. If one of the young first choice locks go down it's handy having a guy with what must be close to 80 caps come in. Ali also has a history of playing better in test rugby than he does in the lower levels.

With Thorn now surely too old to consider, Clarke & Boric going overseas, Donnelly hardly factors these days, hoeata & Bhekuis not serious options. Ali simply is needed. Bird is a great future option but he's just a baby. Callum Retallick has actually been impressing me. Thrush probably only an option in an injury situation, Eaton's not really made the impact this year that had him in the frame last year.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Isn't he injured?

Yeah you're right Dom, he is.
But something tells me they wouldn't have picked him anyway.

The Abs selectors have wierd logic. They stated they only picked Sam Cane at openside because they have already had a good look at Matt Tood, Luke Braid, Tanerau Latimer etc already, and they are not oustide of the reckoning to be picked.

Well by that logic; why pick Ali Williams, Dan Carter, Hore etc.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Yeah you're right Dom, he is.
But something tells me they wouldn't have picked him anyway.

The Abs selectors have wierd logic. They stated they only picked Sam Cane at openside because they have already had a good look at Matt Tood, Luke Braid, Tanerau Latimer etc already, and they are not oustide of the reckoning to be picked.

Well by that logic; why pick Ali Williams, Dan Carter, Hore etc.

Because they are preparing for the June tests, after all.These guys are all but certainties, so they need to work on their gameplans etc. ahead of the series. Basically you've got two groups of players - those they know about, and those they don't. You then can split those up into those likely to feature in the June series, and those not likely to feature.

If you're likely to feature, you are selected.
If you're unlikely to feature, but the coaches know about you, you're not selected.
If you're unlikely to feature and the coaches know little about you, you are selected.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Because they are preparing for the June tests, after all.These guys are all but certainties, so they need to work on their gameplans etc. ahead of the series. Basically you've got two groups of players - those they know about, and those they don't. You then can split those up into those likely to feature in the June series, and those not likely to feature.

If you're likely to feature, you're selected.
If you're unlikely to feature, but the coaches know about you, you're not selected.
If you're unlikely to feature and the coaches know little about you, you're not selected.

How does that explain the outsiders like Saili, Halai etc? I would have thought they fit into the unlikely to feature, coaches know little about them group.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Herp, meant to be you ARE selected

Apologies

 

[nickdnz]

I think he has a role to play as a player as well. If one of the young first choice locks go down it's handy having a guy with what must be close to 80 caps come in. Ali also has a history of playing better in test rugby than he does in the lower levels.

With Thorn now surely too old to consider, Clarke & Boric going overseas, Donnelly hardly factors these days, hoeata & Bhekuis not serious options. Ali simply is needed. Bird is a great future option but he's just a baby. Callum Retallick has actually been impressing me. Thrush probably only an option in an injury situation, Eaton's not really made the impact this year that had him in the frame last year.

Why? If you're after an experienced lock then you go for the experienced lock that is performing the best. Ali Williams is 32. He's not a long term option and his form hasn't warrented thinking he may make it to 2015 (if he does I'll go mental). I'd go with Thorn who provides as much experience, better work ethic and a better player. Who cares if hes near 40 if you just want him for a couple of games to provide experience - Ali Williams isn't a better player atm so shouldn't be selected.

Personally I'd go with Thrush over him - he's been extremely good the month or so.

 

[Big Ewis]

man, Ali Williams and Mealamu STILL playing ?!!!!
But I must say it's a bit of a scary team on paper there...but then again anything can happen, ESPECIALLY with the matchup of these two nations in particular...you can blow us out or actually lose at home...

I regret one thing, and no those are not excuses before-hand:
that France is so weak in gameplan and coaching right now, and that the preparation won't be nearly equal for both teams. Test 1 apparently will be just like the first landing in France for US/English soldiers, just bait.
Just hope we can be competitive on Test 1 is all, I'm not being cowardly. If we lose fair n square we lose fair n square, no hard feelings, no shame in losing to NZ.

Looking at the two sides on paper, one would really like to know they're both equally prepared, and NZ can protect their home field with passion and France can come and attempt to win something with vigor.

* But the scrum will be very interesting this time around. RWC Final, France had the advantage, pushing the NZ pack back on a few occasions...we'll see this time.
* Picamoles VS Read. mmmmm
* Nonu VS Bastareaud, two battering rams at center. We'll also see what Fofana can do against the best side in the world.
* Savea + Dagg + Gear = big advantages for NZ...Savea is a gift from the Gods to you, but we have Fofana so we can't complain just too much...
* SH and FH ?? I honestly dunno how damaging Carter can be right now (outside his kicking), dunno exactly what Cruden will bring those 3 tests, no idea who Saint-André will pick there at 10...

 

[big ginger 8]

Question: If Ged Robinson was playing in New Zealand would he be selected?

 

[admartian]

Still reckon Todd/Braid should've made it over Shields Not that Shields has been crap or anything. Purely for a backup openside.

Hope Luatua makes the final squad.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Question: If Ged Robinson was playing in New Zealand would he be selected?

Probably not, but i'd pick him (and Parsons). They seems determined to stick with Hore and Mealamu for now.
Personally I think both those guys are past their best.

Apparently Ged Robinson is coming back to NZ for the ITM cup.

He also quizzed the Super Rugby Unions about whether he was wanted by any of them and they basically said "no". But he's coming back to NZ to try and earn his way into the squads anyway.

 

[Larksea]

Brad Thorn is clearly closing down his carrier where Ali Williams clearly is committed to the next World Cup, without knowing for sure I get the feeling that Brad Thorn is going to retire at the end of this season.

 

[big ginger 8]

Probably not, but i'd pick him (and Parsons). They seems determined to stick with Hore and Mealamu for now.
Personally I think both those guys are past their best.

Apparently Ged Robinson is coming back to NZ for the ITM cup.

He also quizzed the Super Rugby Unions about whether he was wanted by any of them and they basically said "no". But he's coming back to NZ to try and earn his way into the squads anyway.

Thanks.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

I like the look of the squad, but i'd have taken this opportunity to do a full clean out. Woodcock, Mealamu, Hore, A.Williams have all had great AB careers but in my opinion are holding the Abs back. There is always the argument that it's what they do off the field that counts, they are experienced etc. They simply need to throw the younger blokes into it, possibly lose a few games and develop a hatred for losing and a thirst for improvement. Then there's always the argument of who do you put there in place of them.. to be honest who cares as long as they're young and show a bit of promise and potential to develop into something big.