Sam Burgess...What do we think?

[goodNumber10]

First up, hello and welcome.....

Folks. I am a Leaguey. I come in peace....and to offer reassurance.

There is a lot of disrespect for League players on this forum, but I want to make a few points.

I have watched every game Sam has played for two years.
Sam Burgess is not an ordinary League player. He is not ordinary in any sense. He is a freak.

Don't worry about whether he can keep up with his opposite centre. He can . He will. He plays 80 mins and has 60 plays a game in league. With no breaks in play to reset scrums or set up lineouts. He is unbelievably quick agile and elusive for a man of his size. If there is an 18 1/2 stone bloke anywhere in the world fitter (cardio and conditioning) than him, I will nail a jelly to the ceiling.

He is also intelligent, tactically and strategically aware. But most importantly he is a leader. The most consistently brave and powerful sportsman I have ever seen. He forces his will on other world class players, they either change their game to try and combat him....leaving opportunities for his team-mates to exploit, or they try to dominate him....which always ends badly for them.

I am gutted. Don't think that if Sam is a success it makes your game look weaker. In this case that doesn't matter and isn't relevant. Rejoice, because whether it takes 2 games or 2 years to adapt.....he will be spectacular.

I don't say this lightly.....I believe the greatest athlete on the planet has decided to come and play with you. We are bereft.

Yep, I agree with all of that, he is a phenomenon and he will be a sensation no matter what.

Ford will help him transition, and i think the most important aspect in all of this is he is an intelligent man who wants to learn and be the best at what it is he wants to do... i do not get the feeling he is the type of guy to swap just for the cash, or just to get an England cap.

I think he's changed because he's a man who relishes fresh challenges, and wants to be a world class athlete in union as well as League.

I am gutted. Don't think that if Sam is a success it makes your game look weaker. In this case that doesn't matter and isn't relevant. Rejoice, because whether it takes 2 games or 2 years to adapt.....he will be spectacular.

I don't think anyone would think that at all, some people are just excellent athletes and have transferable skills.

There is a lot of disrespect for League players on this forum, but I want to make a few points.

There really isn't, everyone on here is keen for Burgess to step up and generally quite respectful of league players both in league and converting.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Union forward play just doesn't exist in League - it's nothing to do with intelligence.

Yup - I think maybe that's where the misunderstanding is. Nobodies saying Burgess isn't clever enough to grasp the complexities of Union, just that throwing him straight into the pack would be a baptism of fire in a sport he's never really played before - best to stick him in the backs, where there's more crossover between League/Union (or at least he doesn't have to worry about lineouts/scrums, and has reduced ruck work compared to a backrower) to learn the game.

 

[SimonG]

Is a code warrior not someone who favours one code and then picks fault with the other?

I have been critical of what Rugby Union has become, a bogged down forward dominated game with the previously exciting France the obvious case in point. The decline in interest in the game in Australia has also been due to this. Back play is what most folk want to see. I recall when Lomu arrived on the scene, for the first time folk in my school became aware that Rugby Union existed. O'Driscoll has got more people in Ireland to tune into games than the other XIV players combined. Funny I've barely seen an Ireland shirt in a good six months (coincidence?)

Regards Rugby league, it is an excellent game, in between the play the ball routine which for me wrecks it. Over 600 times per game the game stops and starts. Being used to the flow in Union (well, when it was less forward dominated) its harder to deal with the constant stoppages in play.

That's the complaint of the two codes from fans of the other...so getting rid of the worst aspects and combining the best aspects of the two...result is open free flowing running Rugby in it's purist form.



Back on topic. Sam Burgess, as I stated back in February only a few months since my first sighting of him in the 2013 RLWC, is a game changer. He's a Zidane, a Ronaldo...a difference maker. England are a very solid well disciplined side now but lack that star player who takes you to the next level. He's up there with Offiah and Robinson as the most exciting English Rugby players I've seen. He's already the biggest name in English Rugby Union and hasn't played a game yet. Can't remember the last time (if ever) an NRL final made the main page of the BBC sport section, and it was all about him. As much as I love Ireland, I will probably watch England more with Burgess in the team. Who will partner him in midfield? Tuilagi? My only concern (and hope) is that he's not under used as is often the case with backs in Union. In league he constantly gets to show what he can do, and if he gets the chance in Union I have no doubts he will be the next superstar.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He's already the biggest name in English Rugby Union and hasn't played a game yet.

Not even close.

 

[Tubularbandage]

Fair enough. Maybe I'm a bit sensitive to any comment that can be misinterpreted to be disparaging of league forwards. There are plenty of code warriors on other fora.

I completely agree that playing him at 8 is a no no right now and centre may be where he plays long term. A centre as big as a second row and nearly as quick as a winger. Scary. Right hand offload is awesome too. When he breaks the line gotta have a runner on his left shoulder.

But I believe he wants to be a number 8.

 

[Draggs]

Not even close.

Wigglesworth must be up there.
Simpson-Daniel too.

 

[SimonG]

Question...what current English Rugby Union player could the man on the street name?

Notta one.

Slammin Sam has barely put his foot in through the door and is already THE name in the English Rugby Union. Since i can now see England winning next years RWC I'm pondering a sneaky £50 on him being 2015 Sports Personality of the Year.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Question...what current English Rugby Union player could the man on the street name?

Notta one.

Slammin Sam has barely put his foot in through the door and is already THE name in the English Rugby Union.

You don't even live in England, how would you know?

Manu Tuilagi is far far far more well known than Burgess.
I'd wager Robshaw, Farrell and probably Tom Croft, too.
Cipriani, from his tabloid days, would likely be mentioned before you got down to Burgess.

 

[Patchey]

Olly is on the money with current players but the most well known about rugby player full stop is Wilkinson, by a country mile.

People with a particular interest in club rugby or who watch both codes regularly will know about Burgess. Anyone who reads the sports section of the papers will know of him. But that is VERY different from him being the biggest name in union...

 

[Peat]

All I can is you're describing an England I honestly don't recognize.

 

[SimonG]

Cipriani is a decent shout but almost entirely due to off field activities (Kelly Brook).

Tuilagi is probably the closest to being known by non hardcore Union folk, however he's nowhere near a household name. Think Wilkinson, Jason Robinson and Martin Johnson.

Sam Burgess has got "it". Head and shoulders the star name of last years RLWC, I have no doubt he will stand alongside the biggest names in English Rugby Union.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think I got whiplash at the speed of that U-Turn.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Doubt even most average Union fans would recognise Slammin sam atm TBh.

 

[SimonG]

Nah I'm talkin household name status of which there are none.

The last Rugby player, since Sam, who single handedly managed to get their club featured in the front page of the BBC Sport section is Wilkinson in the Heinekin Cup final.

Hence, Sam is already the biggest name in English RU, without having played a game.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Nah I'm talkin household name status of which there are none.

The last Rugby player, since Sam, who single handedly managed to get their club featured in the front page of the BBC Sport section is Wilkinson in the Heinekin Cup final.
Hence, Sam is already the biggest name in English RU, without having played a game.

 

[j'nuh]

Nah I'm talkin household name status of which there are none.

The last Rugby player, since Sam, who single handedly managed to get their club featured in the front page of the BBC Sport section is Wilkinson in the Heinekin Cup final.

Hence, Sam is already the biggest name in English RU, without having played a game.

No. You said that he's "the name in union". Ask 100 England fans to name as many English rugby players as they can and the vast majority of the current England team will be named before Sam.

Is he more famous than all the other union players with the non-union fan? Possibly. But if so, it's only because there was a league world cup held in England last year so he's more topical.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Still don't think he is well know outside the Rugby (Both codes) lot.

 

[SimonG]

He is now officially a Union player though. Take your point among Union folk such as Olly and Tigs it maybe different.

It's all academic tbh, as there won't be any debate among Union folk come the six nations when he tears it up. I am seriously excited.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If he plays in the 6N.
Bath planned to start easing him in in mid-late November. Due to his injury everything will be pushed back 4-6 weeks, so thats January. He'll have like 3-4 games before the EPS for the six nations is named.

That's not to say he won't make the RWC squad if he's good enough - Tuilagi didn't play 2011 6N but made the World Cup squad.

 

[Peat]

If Burgess makes the Six Nations squad after, what, two months playing the game, then that would possibly be the most freakish achievement I've ever come across.