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[November Tests 2016 EOYT] England vs. Australia (3/12/2016)

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Quick thoughts: that was a seriously impressive game from England. England were clearly second best for the whole first half, but kept within a few points and then ran away with it in the second half. It's something I have long envied the All Blacks for (being able to absorb pressure for so long and turn on the heat)... to see it in an England team is a joy. To do so with so many key players missing and against Australia is absolutely amazing.

Thinking about the year as a whole... Jones (and the new coaching setup) is totally the difference. On this forum we wondered whether England had the player base... whether we had any world class players. What looks obvious now is that yes we did, but we didn't have the coaching team to match it. Perhaps universally, players are playing better for Jones than Lancaster, each by varying degrees. (Challenge for anyone: try to think of a player who played under both Jones and Lancaster who looked better under Lancaster.) Most obvious case in point is May. So often glued to his wing under Lancaster in an over-coached role, his freedom to move around the pitch has put him in so many better positions under Jones and he looks a much better player for it.
 
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Interesting little tidbit. Apparently Hartley had a big list of things he wanted to achieve with England and when he last had a suspension he thought his England career was over and ripped it up. Imagine if you could go back in time and tell him he'd be the captain of possibly the best England team since 2003... Having said that his days are numbered. Good captain but George is a better player. Likewise I can see Sinckler replacing Cole in 1 or 2 years easily, MUCH more dynamic. No longer can teams have props who are dead weight everywhere except the scrum.
 
The Jones Boy said:
Di***head.

Well payed England.
Massive second half performance.
Joseph, another class.
Johnny may awesome work rate.

Aussie looked dead on their feet about 10 minutes into the second half.
England lifted and their bench was on song.
Click to expand...

That's rich coming from you :lol:
 
ragerancher said:
Interesting little tidbit. Apparently Hartley had a big list of things he wanted to achieve with England and when he last had a suspension he thought his England career was over and ripped it up. Imagine if you could go back in time and tell him he'd be the captain of possibly the best England team since 2003... Having said that his days are numbered. Good captain but George is a better player. Likewise I can see Sinckler replacing Cole in 1 or 2 years easily, MUCH more dynamic. No longer can teams have props who are dead weight everywhere except the scrum.
Click to expand...

I keep thinking Hartley needs replacing but then I can't think how else would be captain. Robshaw is getting on a bit and lauchberry isn't guaranteed a starting spot.

Farrell maybe, or Itoje, would rather not give it to one of the younger players though.
 
Great match. They threw everything at us and utterly blew their wad in the first half, and we got lucky to keep it close. Fitness level and ruthlessness told in the end.

George had a solid 20mins, which was Hartening (Ho-ho) to see, Sinkler was ace, mistakes aside and Hughes was far better than I had feared.

JJ for emperor of the universe.
 
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Just got up and saw the news. God the Wallabies are just a second rate team right now... the talent just isn't there frankly in Australian rugby anymore. The forwards apart from Pocock have no grit, Genia is past it and Foley isn't an international standard half.

Watching their decision making at times has just been embarrassing this year and with the Kangaroos just having been in the U.K. at the same time the difference in skill, maturity and frankly sheer hunger and ferocity between the two sides/codes feels like it's never been more stark.
 
RoosTah said:
Just got up and saw the news. God the Wallabies are just a second rate team right now... the talent just isn't there frankly in Australian rugby anymore. The forwards apart from Pocock have no grit, Genia is past it and Foley isn't an international standard half.

Watching their decision making at times has just been embarrassing this year and with the Kangaroos just having been in the U.K. at the same time the difference in skill, maturity and frankly sheer hunger and ferocity between the two sides/codes feels like it's never been more stark.
Click to expand...

A comment like that on the report of the game? Maybe watch it, ya joke
 
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Simple difference for me between this England team and Lancaster's is scoring tries and scoring regularly. I remember so many times england camp on oppositions try line and then messed it up. This side just has that clinical edge where they score tries and put pressure on the opposition, even when playing badly. It's what makes the all blacks good, because even if your winning, give them a chance and they will punish you. England are starting to develop that.
 
No Itoje, no Launch, no Hask, no Billy, no Watson, no Nowell, no Daly. Not bad.

Still a lot to improve on, but we're starting to develop good strength in depth and we now have enough experience to work out what needs to change when things aren't going well. That last one is crucial.

Youngs and JJ were excellent. I thought Hughes did pretty well and Lawes looked like the player he threatened to be when he burst on the scene.

I hope both Eng and Ire are at full strength in the 6N. That could be titanic.
 
TommiG88 said:
A comment like that on the report of the game? Maybe watch it, ya joke
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Di**head, yep, nailed on.

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Reiser99 said:
Simple difference for me between this England team and Lancaster's is scoring tries and scoring regularly. I remember so many times england camp on oppositions try line and then messed it up. This side just has that clinical edge where they score tries and put pressure on the opposition, even when playing badly. It's what makes the all blacks good, because even if your winning, give them a chance and they will punish you. England are starting to develop that.
Click to expand...

The other aspect to add is the defence has gone up a notch.
Aussie threw the kitchen sink at England in the first half and some folk might say England were lucky, but I think that would be a touch churlish in discounting the last ditch desperation, and hunger to make the tackle count or to wrap up the ball carrier over the line.
Thats not luck, thats utter determination not to be beaten.
I think Englands defence has gone up a notch and the race is on to find someone who can keep up with the speed that Joseph's brain works at in the backline. He is at another level compared to his peers. If england find a great foil for him their midfield will be unstoppable.
 
I think the biggest difference with the Lancaster era is between the ears. Attitude and leadership, both on and off the pitch, are unrecognisable now. EJ, rightly, wanted a much more abrasive attitude and Hartley is smack on as his chief lieutenant. Also, EJ has been very demanding and the likes of Wood, Hask, Robshaw and Youngs look completely different players. There's also a serious conveyor belt of talent coming through and competition for places can only be good.
 

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