Guinness Pro14 - Round 9 two tribes go to war

[munstermuffin]

Inviting trouble by saying this especially after last year’s incident but Munster have been hopeless under the high ball so far. Nick’s kicking has left a bit to be desired.

Edit: wind does seem brutal in fairness

Kicking poor but if you stand here you'd know why.
Wind is arguably worth 10 points.
Leinster more physical and deserve lead.
Frank has been poor for both teams but wind is very strong and question will be can we get a platform as we had no attack for 35mins

 

[munstermuffin]

For us I think Fineen and Jacko playing well

 

[Groundhog]

Agreed O'D and Wycherley have been our standouts. Cloete a bit of his usual ridiculous to the sublime

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

The game has made American cable. Good to see.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Kicking poor but if you stand here you'd know why.
Wind is arguably worth 10 points.
Leinster more physical and deserve lead.
Frank has been poor for both teams but wind is very strong and question will be can we get a platform as we had no attack for 35mins

For us I think Fineen and Jacko playing well

Can’t disagree with any of that, wind seems horrible. Decent performance the whole so far from Leinster, would struggle to pick a standout although I’d say Connors and Doris have been good. Wind may well be worth 10 points but that always comes down to how well it’s managed by the teams, would argue Munster didn’t do that particularly well in the first half.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

How did frank stay on his feet?

 

[Groundhog]

Such a bad game.

 

[Groundhog]

No way that maul was collapsed legally. Complete choke job by Munster though.

 

[Groundhog]

That match was purgatory

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

A win is a win is a win.

 

[munstermuffin]

We lost that mainly through our own faults. Leinster are further down the line of it than us. Played elements better 2nd half and were cuter with ref. Frank was terrible for both.

But feel we learnt alot and will benefit. Jack O'Sullivan was superb

 

[Groundhog]

We blew about twenty possessions in their half. Leinster used the wind while they had it a lot better. Not much more to be said than that really.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

The streak continues. 13-0 on the season. Leinster's defence was superb but attack was a bit laboured. Ross Byrne stood out. The backrow were very good too.

As for the home team, they had no ideas in attack other than driving off the side of every single ruck. Passing skills are still an issue. Tommy O'Donnell played well.

 

[duncanb]

Poor game, low quality from players.
Leinster will be delighted with win as were less poor than Munster.
Once again no need to turn out NO1 sides that why we see NO 2 across league, sadly to often on this league.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Great performance and result. Connors, Doris, Ross Byrne, Fardy were all brilliant. Osborne did very well in the circumstances. Not pretty but I’ll never complain about a win here, especially in those conditions.

Munster were terrible though. How they ever expect to win anything with the constant one out passes and utter lack of creativity is beyond me (I know they’re trying to change it but there’s been precious little evidence of it). Just not good enough today despite some strong individual performances.

 

[munstermuffin]

We lost that mainly through our own faults. Leinster are further

The streak continues. 13-0 on the season. Leinster's defence was superb but attack was a bit laboured. Ross Byrne stood out. The backrow were very good too.

As for the home team, they had no ideas in attack other than driving off the side of every single ruck. Passing skills are still an issue. Tommy O'Donnell played well.

It's easy slam skills but tonight people who were not there could not truly appreciate the blizzard wind. Even Leinsters skills were poor.
Agreed we had very little invention in backline but that was more I'd say die to Arnold not being a passing 13 and weather also being poor.

Like people say we were terrible but a few poor ref decisions go our way and it's a total different game.

@Leinster Fan it's easy say we were terrible but from Leinster stats here we made more line breaks and were statistically more creative in our attack patterns. Yes we are evolving and aren't up to scratch but were trying. And well we got alot of change up front the 2nd half with Jack O'Sullivan and Jack O'Donoghue making superb carries. 9 and 10 let us down a bit which didn't help

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

We lost that mainly through our own faults. Leinster are further

It's easy slam skills but tonight people who were not there could not truly appreciate the blizzard wind. Even Leinsters skills were poor.
Agreed we had very little invention in backline but that was more I'd say die to Arnold not being a passing 13 and weather also being poor.

Aren't the bolded linked? Passing skills were poor and there's no invention. Munster's 11-15 passed the ball three times tonight, Leinster's 11-15 passed sixteen times in poor conditions. Ross Byrne passed 22 times. Munster's flyhalves passed 15 times between them. Munster are still playing ball up the jumper, dull rugby.

You can't read too much into the result because a lot of these players won't feature at the business end of the season. What you can figure out is teams attacking philosophies. Leinster are trying to be progressive ever since they recognized skills weren't good enough a few seasons ago. It doesn't always work, like today and against Zebre, but it's clear that they back themselves.

Munster are still playing 9 and 10 man rugby in their biggest games against Saracens, Leinster and Racing this season. It's holding them back as results indicate. They've more talent in their backline than their tight five and can mould their gameplan accordingly. It can be a quick transition. Look how dour Leinster were 4 seasons ago in Leo Cullen's first season in charge. They brought in a new coach (Stuart Lancaster), put the ball in Joey Carbery's hands and ran with it. Munster have brought in a new coach specializing in attack (Stephen Larkham); they too can put the ball in Joey Carbery's hands and run with it. As I've asked before, is it the head coach who won't release the shackles?

 

[munstermuffin]

Tonight though we kicked alot (poorly) to your back 3. Leinster kicked theres dead. That was reason for alot of that.

Tonight we had alot of lads just back from ****les and not in the coaches drills long. We were never going to be flinging balls. The kicking game if you have watched Munster lately has changed dramatically but was altered tonight due to certain personell

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

The kicking game if you have watched Munster lately has changed dramatically but was altered tonight due to certain personell

I have. They throw it around against the bottom feeders in the league, then stick it up their jumper when good teams come to play. Those personnel changes you mention saw them field two Irish internationals in the centre and an Irish international at fullback. Leinster fielded three players who've one European Cup appearance between them in those positions. Still Leinster backed themselves and passed it more often. It's clear that one team who took the field today are being backed to trust their skillset and pass the ball. That wasn't the home side.

I stand by my comment that Munster play risk averse rugby. If you've a different opinion and think Munster are the club version of the Barbarians, that's fine!

 

[munstermuffin]

I have. They throw it around against the bottom feeders in the league, then stick it up their jumper when good teams come to play. Those personnel changes you mention saw them field two Irish internationals in the centre and an Irish international at fullback. Leinster fielded three players who've one European Cup appearance between them in those positions. Still Leinster backed themselves and passed it more often. It's clear that one team who took the field today are being backed to trust their skillset and pass the ball. That wasn't the home side.

I stand by my comment that Munster play risk averse rugby. If you've a different opinion and think Munster are the club version of the Barbarians, that's fine!

I never once said we played a passing game now. More or game has evolved. Yes Sammy Arnold is an international who played very little rugby.
Haley was solid tonight and ran nearly all his balls.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Cardiff vs Dragons was closely-fought but not that entertaining.
Scarlets vs Ospreys was a new low for the latter in their worst season ever, though at least it lifts Scarlets back into the play-off places.
Munster vs Leinster had intensity but not that much quality. Almost reminded me of the Dec 2016 match between Ospreys and Scarlets, who were both flying at the time before that match. (How times have changed!)

 

[Amiga500]

Munster were better off when JJ was at 10 in the 2nd half.

Should have kept with him and put Joey to 15.

Very bad management of conditions in the first half - it was clear the box kick wasn't working with the wind - they didn't once try to kick off 10 if I recall correctly. A garryowen off 10 in that wind can always be better managed distance wise than a box off 9.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Munster were better off when JJ was at 10 in the 2nd half.

Should have kept with him and put Joey to 15.

Very bad management of conditions in the first half - it was clear the box kick wasn't working with the wind - they didn't once try to kick off 10 if I recall correctly. A garryowen off 10 in that wind can always be better managed distance wise than a box off 9.

Don't think that was a game to herald JJ, he was dreadful, at least JC had them playing in the right areas of the pitch.

I agree the first half was weird from them though. They were up against Keenan at 15, who has looked good with an armchair ride so far this season, and decided to box kick to Lowe and Byrne who are both very strong under the high ball.

it felt like a game where both teams set a standard well within themselves for the other to beat and Leinster's was higher.

 

[munstermuffin]

Don't think that was a game to herald JJ, he was dreadful, at least JC had them playing in the right areas of the pitch.

I agree the first half was weird from them though. They were up against Keenan at 15, who has looked good with an armchair ride so far this season, and decided to box kick to Lowe and Byrne who are both very strong under the high ball.

it felt like a game where both teams set a standard well within themselves for the other to beat and Leinster's was higher.

Agreed. Joey kicked better at 10 and himself and Scannell put in great touch finders. And we did look slightly better but not massively.
Having rewatched I think the mismanagement is linked to Neil Cronin who will wish he had game back as he was directly involved in 3 turnovers at crucial times.

To be fair Goggin had great game and marshalled Lowe. The issue with box kicks were we got no distance and it was landing in pile of bodies which kept ball alive and increased pressure on us.
In 2nd half Leinster got very little distance but killed ball dead and were cuter.
@Amiga500 you are correct on the kicking from 10. And the tactic you speak of worked in Galway effectively last week

 

[sugary tae]

When the teams were announced I thought leinster would strangle us a lot more but actually at it esp the last 30 mins you’d have felt we should have gotten over the line. We lacked the lineout and the guile. No point kicking to touch for position if you can’t compete at the lineout.

My sense was we lacked bulk up front. Almost like v sarries. A lot good but not punching enough holes. Think Chris Farrell is a big loss in these games and would hope he n DDA will help in that front. To me it seems a regular complaint. Perhaps I’m being unfair. Obviously Coombes being rtpp was a loss. I’d feel cloete might make hay if 1-6 are winning their collisions but when it’s the opposite his size becomes an issue

Jod was very good. Far and away our best player I though. He’s pushing pom now. Although both will be accommodated

Delighted with JOS... hopefully he’ll get a start in ravinghell. Great turnover. Great instincts I though. Looked in right position.
Thought goggin did fine.

 

[Amiga500]

Don't think that was a game to herald JJ, he was dreadful, at least JC had them playing in the right areas of the pitch.

I thought they were putting more concerted pressure (as opposed to manic pressure) on in the 3rd quarter of the game than the final quarter.