[2014 Mid-Year Tests] England

[British_exile10]

I think that Lancaster wants to start the combo of Wade and Yarde on the wings. Personally I'd love to see Watson get a chance to start but given that it would be his debut, starting Nowell back there for the first game, if that becomes a 3rd string game for both sides, and possibly the crusaders game as well would be a safer bet. Then again there are limited opportunities before RWC and we need to see what these young guys can do

 

[Crapspray]

I'm sure that Lancaster said last autumn that Yarde and Wade were going to start the Argentina test before they got injured. I also thought Wade's injury was quoted at 3/4 months. I don't know if that's been updated, but if not he should be back sometime in April.

So I could see the Ashton being kicked out soon after the tour. The "official" EPS announcement (i.e. not the tour squad) is in the autumn, I think. Hopefully, with Foden's return and Nowell/Watson's inclusion, Goode will go at the same time. Any more dead wood? Croft's return should bump Johnson out. I think that's it.

Test: (All should be available for the first test too)

11. Yarde
14. Wade
15. Brown

23. Nowell/May

Midweek:

11. May
14. Nowell
15. Watson

23. Goode/Ashton? *shudder* or Tuilagi if Twelvetrees-Burrell gets another go in the second test.

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I'd nominate Daly as the most over-looked player at the moment.

 

[Patchey]

I'm sure that Lancaster said last autumn that Yarde and Wade were going to start the Argentina test before they got injured. I also thought Wade's injury was quoted at 3/4 months. I don't know if that's been updated, but if not he should be back sometime in April.

So I could see the Ashton being kicked out soon after the tour. The "official" EPS announcement (i.e. not the tour squad) is in the autumn, I think. Hopefully, with Foden's return and Nowell/Watson's inclusion, Goode will go at the same time. Any more dead wood? Croft's return should bump Johnson out. I think that's it.

Test: (All should be available for the first test too)

11. Yarde
14. Wade
15. Brown

23. Nowell/May

Midweek:

11. May
14. Nowell
15. Watson

23. Goode/Ashton? *shudder* or Tuilagi if Twelvetrees-Burrell gets another go in the second test.

---

I'd nominate Daly as the most over-looked player at the moment.

Daly has to, at least, be the 23rd man in the midweek team. If he doesn't make that he's going to have to wait until everyone is injured for a game.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Daly is one hell of a player and is the best utility we have along with Tait. The problem with him is that he can't nail down one place so he doesn't kind of shine for a long period of games at 15/13 to make a real push for the national team. If he had played 13 for a long time just before the 6 nations he might have got in over Burrell but with Tuilagi back I can't see him getting into the mix. He might actually get in at 23 or even wing because Lancaster likes to have a fullback at wing.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

To date, Daly has shown more than Nowell - shame that winger is just about the only position he hasn't played much at. However I agree, his own versatility has currently held him back and he's currently a bit of a James Hook - not something I'd wish upon any talented player.
Daly will go to New Zealand, however.

 

[Patchey]

To date, Daly has shown more than Nowell - shame that winger is just about the only position he hasn't played much at. However I agree, his own versatility has currently held him back and he's currently a bit of a James Hook - not something I'd wish upon any talented player.
Daly will go to New Zealand, however.

How much has Wasps' lack of consistently performing backs other than Daly and Masi contributed to that do you think? I expected to see Masi at 13 and Daly firmly in the 15 shirt this season but with Masi out for so long that clearly wasn't an option. Come to think of it a similar thing happened last season, Southwell being club captain gave him a certain amount of time at fullback and forced Daly to play thirteen part of the time. But Daly was so obviously the better option at 15 that he ended up switching between the two right?

 

[TheSaffycen]

A player who is also overlooked and is unfortunate to be playing in a rubbish team is Chris Pennell. I think he has the most meters made of any player and is playing out of his boots. Only problem for him is we have about 5 class fullbacks at this moment in time.

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.rfu.com/news/2014/march/news-articles/200314_amor_pre_hk

Good to see his attitude regarding the reintroduction of the sevens team into the fifteens pathway.

 

[Zed]

It will be fairly close. Whoever wins the first test will win the series. If this was 2015/2016 I would go for England winning 2 - 1, but they aren't quite there yet.

 

[goodNumber10]

It will be fairly close. Whoever wins the first test will win the series. If this was 2015/2016 I would go for England winning 2 - 1, but they aren't quite there yet.

Not a chance of england winning a test series in New Zealand - possibly one test, possibly.

If it was a one off test, like 2003, i'd say yeah we could maybe take a test match, but test series rugby is just not something European players are conditioned for, it's not something we've grown up with and it's very very different to playing a one off game.

SH players are used to test series rugby, they've grown up on it, watching it playing it and the expectation that they will play the same opponents three times ina row etc... and while that's tailed off a bit with the 4 nations they play SA and Australia at least twice - a year, and get a third test in against Australia.

It's a very different mentality to one of tests.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I don't think we will actually take 1 test. If we did it would have to be us playing like we did in 2012 and the All-Blacks to be below their best, it could happen but I can't see them at home against England not turning up. The first test will be an England team that will be missing some key players, if the all blacks play a weaker/younger team than maybe we might beat them but if we where to beat them in the first test they will make us pay in the next two.

 

[goodNumber10]

I don't think we will actually take 1 test. If we did it would have to be us playing like we did in 2012 and the All-Blacks to be below their best, it could happen but I can't see them at home against England not turning up. The first test will be an England team that will be missing some key players, if the all blacks play a weaker/younger team than maybe we might beat them but if we where to beat them in the first test they will make us pay in the next two.

Agreed. England will be about benchmarking, seeing how far off thepace they are away from home. The coaches may talk the talk but they will know that a 3 test series is out of reach. SA have only a handful fo test series wins in NZ and over the years they have eben head and shoulders above England.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I think that we are probably going to lose by more than 10 in each game, given the home advantage and all that. We did manage to get a draw in south Africa in 2012 though and could have won if Farrell got the drop goal. We have come on leaps and bounds since then and we can push them close possibly, but being realistic as you said this is too see how far off the top we are.

 

[Patchey]

Have some faith guys!

Going home without a test win would, IMO, be a backwards step for us.

If all the 'building towards the World Cup' stuff that has followed the 6 Nations is to prove more than just hype then we need to show we can beat Southern Hemisphere teams in challenging circumstances. I'd expect the first test to be a write off but one of the other two should be winnable providing we have a full strength squad. If that is beyond us then I'd suggest we all focus our homes on 2019 rather than 2015.

And before anyone says it, I know we'll have the home advantage both at the World Cup and in the 2014 EOYTs but relying on home advatange to carry us through a la 2012 isn't good enough.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Home advantage is definitely a big factor though. You have the fans and normally the referee on your side, it is true that referees will favour the home side and especially when it is in New Zealand(watch vs South Africa and Bismarck red). This isn't me making excuses before the test it's just true that home sides get nearly all 50/50 calls and some referees crumble when the home fans get on their back. Hopefully we get Nigel Owens as he is brilliant and will let the game flow. I will try to be optimistic coming into the test because we do have some classy players who can on their day match anyone but you have to concede that no-one goes to New Zealand and wins the tour. Our best team vs. theirs shows the quality they have, we can't contain them forever and being the All Blacks they get 2 chances 14 points are on the board. And if its the Saracens Northampton final 7 of these guys aren't there.
Corbisiero vs. Woodcock
Hartley vs. Mealamu
Cole vs.Franks
Launchbury vs Rettalick
Lawes vs Whitelock
Wood vs Messam
Robshaw vs McCaw
Vunipola vsRead
Care vs Smith
Farrell vs Cruden
Yarde vsSavea
Twelvetrees vs Nonu
Burrell vs Smith
Nowell vs Smith
Brown vs Dagg

 

[WillKillSin]

is that McCaw still playing ? heavens...isn't he going to break the record with his 200 caps...probably. Anyways, a classic matchup here, but 3 tests isn't enough. They should make it 6 or 7.

 

[Crapspray]

I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to aim for one win. Ireland nearly managed it in 2012 with a team far worse than they, and England, are now.

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It's nice to see sevens being used as a conduit for the fifteen-man game; it should improve some the dire handling which is slowly being fixed by Catt in the senior side.

I just think that the Saxons are where the work really needs to be done in order to complete the "conveyor-belt" to the EPS. Slade, Nowell, and Hill's inclusion suggests that it's heading in the right direction, albeit slowly.

I wonder if they could get separate tours for the Saxons to places like Japan, Georgia, or the Pacific Islands. And/or try and get Wales to bring back an 'A' side, so there's more than two matches prior to the Six Nations.

 

[goodNumber10]

I just think that the Saxons are where the work really needs to be done in order to complete the "conveyor-belt" to the EPS. Slade, Nowell, and Hill's inclusion suggests that it's heading in the right direction, albeit slowly.

I wonder if they could get separate tours for the Saxons to places like Japan, Georgia, or the Pacific Islands. And/or try and get Wales to bring back an 'A' side, so there's more than two matches prior to the Six Nations.

agreed, i really used to Enjoy the Churchill Cup, i don't really understand why they stopped it without something else in palce. i'd like to see a European version with Russia and Romania etc... all playing the Saxons and Wolfhounds.

 

[TheSaffycen]

i'd like to see a European version with Russia and Romania etc... all playing the Saxons and Wolfhounds.

definitely I would love to see that but we need to change the management in the Saxons as our handling and general play was ****ing awful last time out.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just said on BT Sport that Wade is unlikely to play again this season.
Not sure how far in to the off season his injury will go (if at all) - If he's fit, even with no game time at Wasps, I'd still have him in the squad. Wouldn't have him in the tests, but with the BaaBaas and the Crusaders games he can still get time in a White shirt.