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[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand

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steblin said:
I can't even remember the event where he go concussed, was it one big KO or did he have a couple of knocks within a few weeks?
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Wasn't it one of the Chiefs guys with a swinging arm into a tackle in their game a while back Maybe Fitzgerald? Pretty sure he got penalised for it at the time.
 
*edit - wrong thread

bad news about Read - would hate to see him suffer long term with this.
 
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Savea will be a big loss if ruled out (I understand he hasn't been ruled out quite yet). He was on fire earlier in the season but has been quieter over the last month - I wonder if this knee injury has been affecting his play for some time. If there is any doubt he needs to be rested to allow him to fully recover. It will leave our back three a bit unbalanced, as over recent seasons we have usually opted for one 'power' wing and one '2nd fullback' wing - without Savea (and Piutau) or backline does lack a bit of power (unless of course the AB's selectors pull of a shock selection and pick Fekitoa at centre).

Interesting to see Todd brought straight into the side to replace Cane despite only just recovering from injury. He is a good player, but rushing back injured players is not usually a good idea (though he is unlikely to feature unless McCaw gets injured).

The Read situation is quite worrying. I suspected there may be an issue with Read when they choose to include 6 loose-forwards and only 2 hookers. Honestly I would prefer if he just skipped this series, as there is no point in playing him if there is even the slightest risk to his health. He is the key player in the AB's in my opinion, but I'm sure we can survive a series without him. It will be interesting to see loose-forward combo the AB's opt for. I've been very impressed with Kaino at 8 this season, but I think Vito's style of play is more what the AB's want out of their 8, therefore I would probably go for: 6. Kaino, 7. McCaw, 8. Vito. This would be very harsh on Messam, who played very well for the AB's last season (and has looked for the Chiefs this year too), but he would be a good impact option off the bench (and I would start him in at least one of the tests).
 
Would I be right in assuming Savea has the best strike rate of anyone with 20 caps or more? (So freaks such as Chavangha who got four tries on their sole cap aren't counted) 19 tries in 20 games is always going to be missed. He's ridiculous.
 
TRF_nickdnz said:
Ehhh, that would be a very left field selection in my opinion. Osbourne has some pretty suspect defense. I'd say Moala would be a better substitute.
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Visinia wouldn't be a long way from selection either (and there was a lot of noise about Matt Proctor recently, for some reason). Fekitoa will probably receive a game on the wing if Savea is out of the series, I'd imagine.
 
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DuncTheDoodle said:
Would I be right in assuming Savea has the best strike rate of anyone with 20 caps or more? (So freaks such as Chavangha who got four tries on their sole cap aren't counted) 19 tries in 20 games is always going to be missed. He's ridiculous.
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Daisuke Ohata probably has the highest strike rate for players with over 20 tries, with 69 tries in his 58 caps! I imagine Savea's 19 tries in 20 test would be highest among tier 1 nations though.


Tigs Man said:
What about seeing Patrick Osborne brought up if savea is out? would keep the power in the backline.
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Osbourne would be very unlikely. He is an interesting prospect with ball in hand. He is big, strong, and quite quick, and can offload well. However his ball handling is poor (at best), and his defense and work-rate are even worse. In any case I'm not sure whether he is eligible for NZ. I understand he has been involved in Fijian 7's squads in the past - I'm not sure whether he actually played for them though (or was just in training squads), so I'm not sure whether he is tied to Fiji or not....

If we did need another wing selection Visinia would probably be my choice. He's got plenty of pace and power, but also has a big work-rate, good hands, an educated kicking game, and strong defense....
 
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Darwin said:
Osbourne would be very unlikely. He is an interesting prospect with ball in hand. He is big, strong, and quite quick, and can offload well. However his ball handling is poor (at best), and his defense and work-rate are even worse. In any case I'm not sure whether he is eligible for NZ. I understand he has been involved in Fijian 7's squads in the past - I'm not sure whether he actually played for them though (or was just in training squads), so I'm not sure whether he is tied to Fiji or not....

If we did need another wing selection Visinia would probably be my choice. He's got plenty of pace and power, but also has a big work-rate, good hands, an educated kicking game, and strong defense....
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Fair enough havn't seen much of him but when I have he has looked good, but then again most players can when you just watch the highlights.
 
Darwin said:
Savea will be a big loss if ruled out (I understand he hasn't been ruled out quite yet). He was on fire earlier in the season but has been quieter over the last month - I wonder if this knee injury has been affecting his play for some time. If there is any doubt he needs to be rested to allow him to fully recover. It will leave our back three a bit unbalanced, as over recent seasons we have usually opted for one 'power' wing and one '2nd fullback' wing - without Savea (and Piutau) or backline does lack a bit of power (unless of course the AB's selectors pull of a shock selection and pick Fekitoa at centre).

Interesting to see Todd brought straight into the side to replace Cane despite only just recovering from injury. He is a good player, but rushing back injured players is not usually a good idea (though he is unlikely to feature unless McCaw gets injured).

The Read situation is quite worrying. I suspected there may be an issue with Read when they choose to include 6 loose-forwards and only 2 hookers. Honestly I would prefer if he just skipped this series, as there is no point in playing him if there is even the slightest risk to his health. He is the key player in the AB's in my opinion, but I'm sure we can survive a series without him. It will be interesting to see loose-forward combo the AB's opt for. I've been very impressed with Kaino at 8 this season, but I think Vito's style of play is more what the AB's want out of their 8, therefore I would probably go for: 6. Kaino, 7. McCaw, 8. Vito. This would be very harsh on Messam, who played very well for the AB's last season (and has looked for the Chiefs this year too), but he would be a good impact option off the bench (and I would start him in at least one of the tests).
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Absolutely. You only need to read this article http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/27655550 to know that at least Hansen and co are doing the right thing by Read.
 
Darwin said:
Savea will be a big loss if ruled out (I understand he hasn't been ruled out quite yet). He was on fire earlier in the season but has been quieter over the last month - I wonder if this knee injury has been affecting his play for some time. If there is any doubt he needs to be rested to allow him to fully recover. It will leave our back three a bit unbalanced, as over recent seasons we have usually opted for one 'power' wing and one '2nd fullback' wing - without Savea (and Piutau) or backline does lack a bit of power (unless of course the AB's selectors pull of a shock selection and pick Fekitoa at centre).

Interesting to see Todd brought straight into the side to replace Cane despite only just recovering from injury. He is a good player, but rushing back injured players is not usually a good idea (though he is unlikely to feature unless McCaw gets injured).

The Read situation is quite worrying. I suspected there may be an issue with Read when they choose to include 6 loose-forwards and only 2 hookers. Honestly I would prefer if he just skipped this series, as there is no point in playing him if there is even the slightest risk to his health. He is the key player in the AB's in my opinion, but I'm sure we can survive a series without him. It will be interesting to see loose-forward combo the AB's opt for. I've been very impressed with Kaino at 8 this season, but I think Vito's style of play is more what the AB's want out of their 8, therefore I would probably go for: 6. Kaino, 7. McCaw, 8. Vito. This would be very harsh on Messam, who played very well for the AB's last season (and has looked for the Chiefs this year too), but he would be a good impact option off the bench (and I would start him in at least one of the tests).
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I think ABs should rest players having any injury, no matter how small it's. England has a weak team for the first test and is a good opportunity to test new players, in this case, who will be the left wing if Savea can't play.
 
nzlizard said:
Strike rate of players who have scored at least 30 tries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_leading_rugby_union_test_try_scorers

While Savea is not on the list due to having scored only 20 tries, his rate is .95 so he would be second at this stage
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Yeah, but keep it's very rare players continue with such a high strike rate in tests. Just thinking of the All Blacks:

Umaga had 19 tries his first 21 tests.
John Kirwan had 21 tries in his first 21 tests.
Sivivatu had 21 tries in his first 21 tests.
Cullen had 21 tries in his first 21 tests.
Rokocoko had 25 tries in his first 21 tests.

Savea has actually only played 20 games to be fair, so he could still be up with the likes of Kirwan, Cullen, Sivivatu and Rokocko - but I'd be very surprised (and thrilled) if he kept that strike ratio up through a long career.
 
The_Blindside said:
Absolutely. You only need to read this article http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/27655550 to know that at least Hansen and co are doing the right thing by Read.
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In total agreement about Read. He is the key player for the all blacks .Not sure about Vito he has improved some what but he "flatters to deceive" Kaino has been monumental this season. I d prefer messam at 6 and Kaino at 8
 
Chikwa said:
In total agreement about Read. He is the key player for the all blacks .Not sure about Vito he has improved some what but he "flatters to deceive" Kaino has been monumental this season. I d prefer messam at 6 and Kaino at 8
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Yeah this would be my pick for the test also, guess we will all find out tomorrow.
 
Out of interest what are people's issues with Vito? I've seen how beastly Kaino has been this season but have seen little or nothing of Kaino (or Messam for that matter).
 
Patchey said:
Out of interest what are people's issues with Vito? I've seen how beastly Kaino has been this season but have seen little or nothing of Kaino (or Messam for that matter).
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I can't speak for others, but I don't imagine too many people have an issue with Vito. I think it is more that Messam performed very well for the AB's last season (and has played well for the Chiefs this season too), so they would prefer him over Vito (who despite his talent is still largely unproven at test level). For me it is a 50:50 choice between Vito and Messam with Read out. Messam is more proven at test level, but for him to be included Kaino would have to move to 8. Kaino has looked great for the Blues there, but the AB's prefer a more wider ranging 8. Read often stands 1 or 2 in from the wing on attack, and drops back to act as a 4th fullback on defense (which is the key to our counterattack). Vito certainly has the skill-set to perform this role - a role I consider to be vital to the AB's current gameplan. Kaino would be less effective in this role (he is much better closer to the action), and while Messam could range a bit wider in this role I don't think he would be as effective as Vito.
 
If only Nemani Nadolo was a NZer... could of placed him on the left wing as cover for Savea, oh well no second Jonah Lomu.
 
Darwin said:
Read often stands 1 or 2 in from the wing on attack, and drops back to act as a 4th fullback on defense (which is the key to our counterattack). Vito certainly has the skill-set to perform this role - a role I consider to be vital to the AB's current gameplan.
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sorry to drop in a shameless plug but, I did a whole article about exactly that: http://www.thedeadballarea.com/focus-englands-summer-tour/ there is a video of it in action, and also how the counter attack works for you (another video), look at how Read is positioned in it: http://www.thedeadballarea.com/the-anatomy-of-a-try-piutau-france-vs-new-zeland-2013/
 
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All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Cory Jane, Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith, Jerome Kaino, Richie McCaw (c), Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Tony Woodcock. Reserves[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]: Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Patrick Tuipulotu, Victor Vito, TJ Perenara, Beauden Barrett, Malakai Fekitoa.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]i'm not for whole sale change for no reason or anything but i think these non competition games really really have been used to try something new...even something as minor as barrett to start or even more obviously smith at fullback...just a bit boring to tell you the truth[/FONT]
 
damn good team still, but very 'classic' indeed. Happy to see Kaino back. Where's Savea though ? Injured ? I'd have him over Jane for sure is he's available.
 
Jabby said:
All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Cory Jane, Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith, Jerome Kaino, Richie McCaw (c), Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Tony Woodcock. Reserves[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]: Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Patrick Tuipulotu, Victor Vito, TJ Perenara, Beauden Barrett, Malakai Fekitoa.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]i'm not for whole sale change for no reason or anything but i think these non competition games really really have been used to try something new...even something as minor as barrett to start or even more obviously smith at fullback...just a bit boring to tell you the truth[/FONT]
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I think any experimenting will happen in the third test. Still, three uncapped players in this team!
 
Big Ewis said:
damn good team still, but very 'classic' indeed. Happy to see Kaino back. Where's Savea though ? Injured ? I'd have him over Jane for sure is he's available.
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Savea is out with a knee injury, otherwise he would be a definite starter on the left wing.

goodNumber10 said:
sorry to drop in a shameless plug but, I did a whole article about exactly that: http://www.thedeadballarea.com/focus-englands-summer-tour/ there is a video of it in action, and also how the counter attack works for you (another video), look at how Read is positioned in it: http://www.thedeadballarea.com/the-anatomy-of-a-try-piutau-france-vs-new-zeland-2013/
Click to expand...

Excellent videos. They certainly explain my point much more clearly than my post does! In any case the ABs selectors have opted for Kaino at 8, so we may see Messam (despite wearing the 6 jersey) used in the Read role....
 

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