2014 Super Rugby: Cheetahs vs. Bulls (Round 2)

[TRF_heineken]

Bloemfontein

19:10 CAT​

Teams:

Cheetahs:

15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cornal Hendricks, 13 Johann Sadie, 12 Francois Venter, 11 Raymond Rhule, 10 Johan Goosen, 9 Shaun Venter 8 Phillip van der Walt, 7 Lappies Labuschagné, 6 Boom Prinsloo, 5 Francois Uys, 4 Lodewyk de Jager, 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Caylib Oosthuizen

Substitutes:16 Ryno Barnes, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Maks van Dyk, 19 Rynard Landman, 20 Jean Cook, 21 Sarel Pretorius, 22 Elgar Watts, 23 Rayno Benjamin

Bulls:

15 Jurgen Visser, 14 Akona Ndungane, 13 JJ Engelbrecht , 12 Jan Serfontein, 11 Bjorn Basson, 10 Louis Fouché, 9 Francois Hougaard, 8 Jacques Engelbrecht, 7 Jacques du Plessis, 6 Jono Ross, 5 Grant Hattingh, 4 Flip van der Merwe (captain), 3 Werner Kruger, 2 Callie Visagie, 1 Dean Greyling

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Frik Kirsten, 18 Marcel van der Merwe ,19 Victor Matfield,20 Wiaan Liebenberg, 21 Piet van Zyl, 22 Handré Pollard, 23 Ulrich Beyers

 

[Gena_ZA]

Will have to see the Bulls line-up before waging a comment.
Will Ludeke see the light, this might well determine where the Bulls are going this season.

Os du Randt should just hand out a few PK's at the Cheetahs to wake them up a bit.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Will have to see the Bulls line-up before waging a comment.
Will Ludeke see the light, this might well determine where the Bulls are going this season.

Os du Randt should just hand out a few PK's at the Cheetahs to wake them up a bit.

I think both teams will get a lashing from the coaches this week at training.

I suspect it will be a crunching battle, with neither team wanting to start with 2 losses on the trot at the start of the Season...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The Cheetahs showed glimpses of the Cheetahs of last year. Don't know how long they'll take to get rid of the rust but they certainly have less issues than the Bulls IMO; the Cheetahs just need to 'click as a team and get their accuracy in execution up whereas I think the Bulls have either the wrong personel for the right gameplan or the wrong gameplan for the right personel depending on your viewpoint. A combination of 9Hougaard, 10Pollard, 12Serfontein, 13Engelbrecht is just begging to be given the all clear to play a ball in hand game. The pack is just unbalanced even if there are quality players.

 

[Bull]

1. Dawie Steyn don't know why he isn't used
2. Callie Visagie
3. Good question
4. Jacques Du Plessis
5. Flip van der Merwe
6. Deon Stegmann
7. Wiaan Liebenberg
8. Jacques Engelbrecht
9. Piet van Zyl
10. JLP
11. Francois Hougaard
12. Serfontein
13. JJ
14. Bjorn
15. Jesse Kriel

 

[TRF_heineken]

1. Dawie Steyn don't know why he isn't used
2. Callie Visagie
3. Good question
4. Jacques Du Plessis
5. Flip van der Merwe
6. Deon Stegmann
7. Wiaan Liebenberg
8. Jacques Engelbrecht
9. Piet van Zyl
10. JLP
11. Francois Hougaard
12. Serfontein
13. JJ
14. Bjorn
15. Jesse Kriel

NO!! That's a terrible squad!!

1. Morne Mellett (if fit)
2. Bongi Mbonambi
3. Marcel van der Merwe
4. Flip van der Merwe
5. Victor Matfield
6. Deon Stegman (if fit) otherwise Jacques Engelbrecht
7. Jacques Du Plessis (he showed he can be very effective as a blindside flanker, and gives extra options at lineout time)
8. Pierre Spies (come on guys, last week was his first game back, give the guy a little bit of a break).
9. Piet van Zyl
10. Handre Pollard
11. Bjorn Basson
12. Jan Serfontein
13. JJ Englebrecht
14. Francois Hougaard
15. Ulrich Beyers / Clayton Blommetjies

 

[Bull]

Opinion everybody has one. Just because mine differs from your's it's terrible?!

Pierre Spies is **** and he goes missing as a player and leader when things get tough. Van der Merwe hasn't impressed me at all since joining from the Cheetahs. Only reason why I haven't picked Matfield is because of match fitness, Ulrich Beyers is not much better than the dreary Visser and always seems overweight, Pollard is a player that needs to be eased into SR otherwise he'll tun into the next Goosen.

Du Plessis at 7 does add an extra line out option and by playing him at lock does take away that advantage, he could be the next Danie Rossouw. Why the Bulls persist with Frik Kirsten, Werner Kruger, Dean Greyling and Paul Willemse is beyond me.

I really don't see a big difference in our teams to be honest.

 

[Gena_ZA]

I prefer Bulls's squad apart from Jesse, he is still injured
Would play the one twin at 15 right now

 

[TRF_heineken]

Bulls team announced! I've added it to my OP

 

[Bull]

Didn't expect any drastic changes

 

[TRF_heineken]

Didn't expect any drastic changes

Yeah me neither... Though it would have been nice to remove Jonno Ross from the team. But Stegman is still out injured, and Wiaan Liebenberg didn't even make the squad and is part of Tuks' Varsity Cup team...

 

[Gena_ZA]

Ludeke listens to now one it seems, this might be his last season
Have to favor the Cheetahs for this game

 

[TRF_heineken]

Ludeke listens to now one it seems, this might be his last season
Have to favor the Cheetahs for this game

nah... There's nobody better for the Bulls ATM.

a few minor tweaks, and these guys could be winning nearly every game.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

nah... There's nobody better for the Bulls ATM.

a few minor tweaks, and these guys could be winning nearly every game.

What like playing your best players and a game plan that suits them?


EDIT, look I don't doubt the talent up at Loftus, in fact quite the opposite. But I have to agree with Gena about Ludeke (and his backroom staff); If I were a Bulls supporter I'd be wanting more.

 

[Bull]

The Bulls don't have the tactical kickers to employ the kick and chase game, but why would they want to with the players they have? If I were Hougaard, Jan and JJ I would be very frustrated.

 

[Draggs]

nah... There's nobody better for the Bulls ATM.

a few minor tweaks, and these guys could be winning nearly every game.

Disagree. If it was that easy they would do it. The Bulls success was built off a pack that doesn't give up ground, guarantees it's own ball, and slows down opposition. All of those key players are gone. The backs were there to get the field position and gets points on offer, those key players are gone. Minimal mistakes from your side, force the oppo back and into errors. Won them three SRs, nothing wrong with that. There is much more than minor tweaks. They either need players who can execute the old plan (which they don't have), or a new play to fit the players (don't yet have).

 

[TRF_heineken]

you guys don't see the bigger picture, which is okay. No team can constantly perform and win every game when they lose their top players every year. Not even the Crusaders have had this many players leaving every year as the Bulls have.

Last week we had 2 flankers making their Super Rugby Debut. We had 2 Springbok players playing their first game after being out for nearly a year. our Reserve fly-half also made his Super Rugby debut, and we had a Retiree making his comeback after being out for 2 years!!

The Bulls had more disruptions in their squad than any other team in the Super Rugby Tournament. And probably have the most new faces behind the Force. I am willing to write off this season completely for the sake of rebuilding a proper team again. I know I said this last year, but this year we're in an even worse condition and yet, last year we made the playoffs.

Last week could have been a whole lot different. Imagine if the TMO's made the correct call? the game would have been a lot closer, and probably wouldn't have resulted in the Sharks gunning for the 4 try bonus point. That's a 14-point swing!! Not that I think the Bulls would've won, they didn't deserve to win. But still.

And regarding management, who would you employ??? Gary Gold? John Plumtree? John Mitchell? PDV? Sir Graham Henry? Pine Pienaar?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Brendan Venter. Perfect fit for the current talent at the Bulls IMO.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Brendan Venter. Perfect fit for the current talent at the Bulls IMO.

The Bulls don't tend to go for coaches that didn't have some sort of affiliation with the Bulls previously. If we look at guys like Heyneke Meyer and Frans Ludeke. They were from the greater Bulls region. HM from Nelspruit and Frans Ludeke from Polokwane. in their early days they were part of the younger squads of the Bulls and worked their way up.

Which IMO is the only way to keep the culture going.

While I like Brendan Venter, I don't think he be a better fit for the Bulls as you might think.

What about Jimmy Stonehouse?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I do like Stonehouse. And I think he gets the a lot out of his players. I would question the depth of his game plan but then again he hasn't had the chance to show all his cards with a world class squad has he..
He is a good 'front man' and leader. Maybe with the right assistants he could fare quite well in SR who knows, certainl not me.