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[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Fiji (18/09/2015)

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Well I wasn't far off, England scored over 30 points and Fiji struggled to get 11.
England missed a couple of kicks and Fiji missed a hatful.
The teams tried their best and England deserved the victory...
However, there were some very disturbing refereeing decisions in that game.
The worst of them being a Fiji try being disallowed just as the conversion was about to be taken.
It was the right decision but as Johnny Wilkinson pointed out when do you stop going back to reverse a decision, at half time, at the end of the game.
If the try is awarded then it has to stand. It's down to the referee to have a look first before awarding the try if there is any doubt.
That was a very ugly precedent.
Then there was the strange and indeed harsh decision by the referee to upgrade the legal try scored by England early in the first half from a try to a penalty try and then add a yellow card to a Fijian player for something that would rarely if ever receive any card. It left Fiji right on the back foot and while they were a man down England scored 12 unanswered points and there was the game.
Fiji were pretty ordinary, which is Kiwi euphemism for downright average.
At times England were excellent.
At times they looked like they were playing in molasses.
The best player of the night was Mike Brown a livewire performance from fullback. He was the standout.
After that Englands best players were the Samoan Vunipola brothers and the Aussie centre Burgess, those three looked excellent when they came on and England definitely went up a gear. Wigglesworth also looked much better than Ben Youngs at halfback on the night.
A very iffy bonus point try for England in extra time that did not look it had touched the line from the important angle from behind the line but it was awarded and there will be more than a few eyebrows raised in the camps of other teams about important refereeing decisions being swayed by the roaring of the crowd.
 
It is so easy to give the subs playing 15/20 minutes credit over those who started! I am hopeful that Lancaster sees the bigger picture.

There are certainly areas to improve like game plan to start with! That aside, Marler and Coles were predictably poor....Coles has not shown, like Corbs, that he has not adapted to the new laws. Lawes has not been the same player and we need an out and out back rower to get the ball.

Yup this is a really important point and is lost on many people. It is particularly relevant for tier one nations against lesser teams as there is absolutely no excuse for not dominating that last 15-20minutes. All the hard work is done in the first 60 - just not sure how well England managed that though. Farrell, Burgess, Vunipoloa all looked good when they came on, but as you say the bigger picture is much more important.
 
Tom Youngs, Barritt and Parling are not good enough the reason we got murdered in the scrums was because he is so lightweight and small. Launchbury is our best second row and I've been saying it Burgess can really play but to be honest anything is better than Barritt. Another one is Wiggles he is so slowww he just watches the ball at the back of a ruck

Was quite impressed with Fiji and they'll keep improving Nadolo is a freak and worth a try a game
 
Really ugly to see that Fiji try disallowed.

Both teams looked like deers in the headlights.

Do England have enough grunt upfront really challange for the cup?

I don't think England have the quality to beat Wales and Australia.
 
Cheers mate. What kind of a player is Slade? Can he get better go forward? Cause that is what it looked like you were lacking at 12. IMO that is why Nonu is such a good international 12. He can get a backline out of trouble by making the gain line even when he is under pressure. Perhaps it was just a one off poor game from Barritt? He gave away a lot of penalties (4 maybe?) which really didn't help his cause.

So, has Burgess not been that great to date? What have been his main issues?

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There were a couple comments on this thread pre game which surprised me. Perhaps they hadn't seen how amazing he has played for the Crusaders over a couple years. The guy is absolute class aye!

Slade can play 12, he played 13 in the warm up game along side Burgess against France. At 12 he's really be what in my mind what a 12 should be i.e. similar skills to a 10. He's not a carrying/crash ball type 12 he tackles much better than his size would suggest. He in the squad for 13 cover and unless Joseph gets injured he won't get a look in.

Problem with Burgess is his time in the code, he was playing as a blindside flanker for his club for the majority of his game time last season, main concerns are over his positioning and simply not knowing the game well enough. However if he can be trusted he is what England need in the WC, Barritt had a shocker.
 
Dear Stuart, were you listening when I told you months ago that:

* our front 5 is horribly underpowered. Omitting Attwood was crass.
* we need a proper 7
* BB is not, and never will be, the answer at 12
* TY is a problem in both scrum and line out

No, thought not.

And where was the on field leadership? Only Burgess seems able to galvanise.

Am very worried by scrum and breakdown and also starting to have increasing reservations over Ford. Unless our pack sharpens up its act to give him front foot ball, the siren calls for OF will start to gather momentum. I don't like knee jerk reactions, but Wales and Australia must be praying that same xv starts against them. Lancaster & his coaches have some hard thinking to do.
 
Slade can play 12, he played 13 in the warm up game along side Burgess against France. At 12 he's really be what in my mind what a 12 should be i.e. similar skills to a 10. He's not a carrying/crash ball type 12 he tackles much better than his size would suggest. He in the squad for 13 cover and unless Joseph gets injured he won't get a look in.

OK cheers. We disagree on the skill sets we'd like to see in a 12 then. I personally believe the 12 has to be able to carry and crash the line well as they so often come under pressure there and need to get their team out of trouble, particularly at international level when the defences are so quick off the line - but thats just personal preference. Regardless of opinion it will be interesting to see what England chose to do in the next game. Sounds like Barritt will play so will be good to see how he goes next time.

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His kicking isn't that great. Fiji is lacking a guy who is a certainty with kicks.

yeah, but to be honest thats a weakness of the Fijian team I reckon, not so much of Nadolo. It's just that they don't have a good kicker and so he has to take the job.
 
England deserves to win

But seriously, this last try given is just a shame, there was no video evidence of this being a try...

This is a really bad decision, just pressure from the crowd and the organizer, it makes 5 points instead of 4 points, this is hugely unfair to Australia or Wales ..or even the other teams of this group...
 
Ireland two weeks ago, some of us English moaned about the TMO getting involved and disallowing a try just befor ford was kicking the conversion. I, among others accepted the correct call if it became consistent. Today showed consistancy and people start moaning. Can't win.
 
England deserves to win

But seriously, this last try given is just a shame, there was no video evidence of this being a try...

This is a really bad decision, just pressure from the crowd and the organizer, it makes 5 points instead of 4 points, this is hugely unfair to Australia or Wales ..or even the other teams of this group...

Open your eyes my friend! I am critical but it was clearly grounded!
 
England deserves to win

But seriously, this last try given is just a shame, there was no video evidence of this being a try...

This is a really bad decision, just pressure from the crowd and the organizer, it makes 5 points instead of 4 points, this is hugely unfair to Australia or Wales ..or even the other teams of this group...

So proof of the ball touching the line isn't enough now?
 
If the try is awarded then it has to stand. It's down to the referee to have a look first before awarding the try if there is any doubt.
That was a very ugly precedent.

I noticed that too. My understanding was you cannot reverse your decision. Granted, he almost immediately looked at it after he realized, but for me it's not a good precedent. Because then it becomes a matter of when does enough time elapse that a decision reversal is inappropriate? 30 seconds? 2 minutes? 10 minutes? When the conversion has been kicked?
 
Please can England find a fast ball securing open side

Yet again we get shown up at the breakdown. Seriously? How many times does Lancaster need to see England failing to secure our own ball before he either selects a breakdown specialist (as EVERY other team has) or get the team properly trained in clearing out and defending our own ball? It is a glaring weakness that has been there for years and to still have it that bad going into the world cup is ****ing unacceptable.

Also are England allergic to the concept of hitting a pass at speed and smashing the gain line? We have players jogging slowly along going through the motions of passing along the line with NOBODY threatening the gain line.

Totally agree. We are crying out for someone who gets to the breakdown and secures. Tackling and securing are what we need in a 7 we have enough carriers.
 
Open your eyes my friend! I am critical but it was clearly grounded!

BS and you know it, the leg of the fiji guy was in front, there is no video where you can see it grounded.

Again, Fiji is a small team, nobody will say anything, 1 point given to England..easy..this is just a shame.
 
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OK cheers. We disagree on the skill sets we'd like to see in a 12 then. I personally believe the 12 has to be able to carry and crash the line well as they so often come under pressure there and need to get their team out of trouble, particularly at international level when the defences are so quick off the line - but thats just personal preference. Regardless of opinion it will be interesting to see what England chose to do in the next game. Sounds like Barritt will play so will be good to see how he goes next time.

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yeah, but to be honest thats a weakness of the Fijian team I reckon, not so much of Nadolo. It's just that they don't have a good kicker and so he has to take the job.

Inside centre has certainly evolved over the years when you look back at some of the greats. Nowadays crash ball players are far more the norm. Nonu has added a lot to his game with improved distribution and even an half decent kicking game. Barritt will truck it up but seldom makes yards and has pretty much no vision for a decent pass.
 
I noticed that too. My understanding was you cannot reverse your decision. Granted, he almost immediately looked at it after he realized, but for me it's not a good precedent. Because then it becomes a matter of when does enough time elapse that a decision reversal is inappropriate? 30 seconds? 2 minutes? 10 minutes? When the conversion has been kicked?

I've seen it happen on about 5 occasions - the TMO can intervene at any point before the conversion is attempted.
 
The ball didn't touch the line and it was obvious from behind the line it never got there.
However, it's a moot point, it's been given and the warning is now out there for all the other camps to be aware of...
There is no way a foreign team would have got that decision.
 
I noticed that too. My understanding was you cannot reverse your decision. Granted, he almost immediately looked at it after he realized, but for me it's not a good precedent. Because then it becomes a matter of when does enough time elapse that a decision reversal is inappropriate? 30 seconds? 2 minutes? 10 minutes? When the conversion has been kicked?

It happened a fortnight ago in the England Ireland warm up. England scored a try which 90 seconds later got flagged by the TMO. It was correctly ruled out, although I feel if the ref gives a try the TMO shouldn't get involved.
 
I don't think England have the quality to beat Wales and Australia.

Not only did England beat Wales last time out you're significantly weaker with injures. How can England not have enough quality to beat Wales? Oz on the other hand England did win last time out but Oz have been impressive but England absolutely can beat them.
 
The ball didn't touch the line and it was obvious from behind the line it never got there.
However, it's a moot point, it's been given and the warning is now out there for all the other camps to be aware of...
There is no way a foreign team would have got that decision.

+1 England is the organizer, they have put some money into it , they need their money back.

A bit like NZ in 2011 :D
 

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