[2015 RWC] Quarter Final 2: New Zealand vs. France (17/10/2015)

[Mcfadden]

Owens has refered the french against Ireland, is it possible to have twice the same referee ??

Didn't England have Poite two games in a row?

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I'm going to this match. Can't wait. A lot of confident AB fans on here, but I'm not so sure. France always seem to grow 10 feet when they play the ABs in knockout rugby. Expecting France to bring out a performance they simply won't repeat again in this RWC. The question is can this AB team finally bring their A games this RWC?

Really? Maybe quietly confident but for the most part I think most of us are pretty cautious! (The odd dumb comment will surface of course)

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on the woodcock factor. he is the best prop we have ever produced but hes far from his best. IMO Bringing in Moody for woodcock actually strengthens our scrum overall. It probably wont happen but I like the idea of staring moody.... crockett is good off the bench and moody will be a player opposition teams wont have as much homework on.

I dunno what the definition of 'best prop is' .. Woodcock certainly has had a huge amount of longevity and has the ability to read set piece moves extremely well. But if we're talking about scrummaging then Carl Hayman was better.

 

[james5000]

that is a very narrow view of that game, Donald wasn't just some random 4th string 10 he was an experienced (~20 caps?) former long term backup to dan carter and starter in a number of tests and pretty much the only 10 in NZ who could tackle as well as Dan Carter. Forget the kick he made which was a bonus as Cruden wasn't kicking well and Weepu had an injury which affected his kicking as well. But Donald made more tackles for the amount of time he was on the field than any other all black in that game more tackles per minute than McCaw... only 2nd to Conrad smith for the backs even though he only played 50min. He didn't just fill in he kinda saved our bacon. When the french turned on the heat and nailed that channel our forwards struggled big time with McCaw stuck at the bottom of most rucks I believe Cruden would have seriously struggled. we got very lucky...The

difference between the pool match we dominated and the final we only just scraped him in was the huge difference in the effort from the french, nothing else.

We can agree to disagree then, but I honestly don't know how you can claim there to be no difference between a World Cup pool game and a final.

Also they didn't make a movie about Stephen Donald because he was a former test regular.

 

[Mcfadden]

Come on Larksea. Take off the Wikato spectacles mate. Donald was definitely 4th string. He was public enemy for a reason up until then - he lost us games and put us in compromising spots quite a lot before that final. In a far worse way which Izzy Dagg has ever done.

 

[nickdnz]

Come on Larksea. Take off the Wikato spectacles mate. Donald was definitely 4th string. He was public enemy for a reason up until then - he lost us games and put us in compromising spots quite a lot before that final. In a far worse way which Izzy Dagg has ever done.

Don't get Larksea started on Stephen Donald - for the love of god.

 

[Larksea]

Come on Larksea. Take off the Wikato spectacles mate. Donald was definitely 4th string. He was public enemy for a reason up until then - he lost us games and put us in compromising spots quite a lot before that final. In a far worse way which Izzy Dagg has ever done.

it doesn't matter if he was the 1st choice or the 10th choice, slade was ahead of him and failed to convince on field before he was injured. Cruden was ahead of him and not considered a goal kicker. Donald turned out to be ideally suited for that game. And we may have actually been better off if he started and took the relatively easy kicks at goal Weepu missed.

ok so you said donald lost us "games" as in more than one care to go into more detail? Donalds record is ~24 tests ~5 losses, 3 of which were to south africa in 2009 when our lineout was completely and utterly dominated by the boks, one loss to france at the begining of 09 as part of a makeshift basically 2nd string all black team with a number of players on debut that performed badly across the park the only other was hong kong in 2010. Even in that hong kong game where critical mistakes were made by Afoa, Toeava (his rush out of the line on Beale was the biggest mistake of that final period), thorn and Kaino. Donald shouldered all the blame for not kicking a clearance into touch even though Aussie would have taken a quick throw even if he did. so where are all these games donald lost us? there must be some there that are clearly all his fault?

09 was the year of Issac Ross probably the worst All Black of modern times, 8 tests 4 losses. somehow got given the job of calling lineouts, he clearly absolutely sucked. Yet he was allowed to vanish into obscurity while Stephen Donald was tied to the rack and tortured. The issac Ross situation was so bad he was dropped outright and Hansen lost his role of Forwards coach Henry took control and Tom Donnelly came in and turned out to be absolutely brilliant.

I never said he was perfect, hes not. But Heck even the legends of has cost us games or made mistakes it happens. But Donald shouldered a much larger proportion of blame and public outcry than he deserved. Some from Auckland but the vast majority came from Canterbury surprise surprise.

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Don't get Larksea started on Stephen Donald - for the love of god.

too late

doesn't matter as much now, he did win us a WC after all IMO hes been vindicated as a player and a person.

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We can agree to disagree then, but I honestly don't know how you can claim there to be no difference between a World Cup pool game and a final.

Also they didn't make a movie about Stephen Donald because he was a former test regular.

I'm not sure what you mean, there was a massive difference between the pool game and the final. Just as there is a massive difference between the pool game between France & Ireland and the up coming quater final between France and the All Blacks.

 

[nickdnz]

Larksea - I think you will have a hard time finding people who live in the same reality as you do, when it comes to Stephen Donald.

He was a pretty poor All Blacks - who redeemed himself with a winning kick. As much as you want to say he saved us - technically he came on the field when it was 5-0 - and he scored 3 points and France scored 7. He had good defence - on attack he did nothing except literally ran the ball out of play without being touched. It wasn't the game you imagine. He made a lot of tackles, but no one ever questioned his defence - they questioned his game management - which nothing about his play alleviated those criticisms. He made an easy kick - and we're all stoked that he got it - but it wasn't the redemption that you imagine. I personally would much rather have Isaac Ross over Stephen Donald.

For the record he's always seemed like a nice guy. And as a rugby player he was good enough to get the Chiefs to a final (albeit a ridiculously disappointing one). But he was really a pretty average All Black, who tried to take over when we had been relying on the best 10 in history.

 

[Fard]

Had the pleasure of meeting Stephen a few times, a very nice guy and had some great laughs with him over quite a few years, although as an Australian I always hoped he was the number 10 in the AB's

 

[PacDuran]

Larksea - I think you will have a hard time finding people who live in the same reality as you do, when it comes to Stephen Donald.

He was a pretty poor All Blacks - who redeemed himself with a winning kick. As much as you want to say he saved us - technically he came on the field when it was 5-0 - and he scored 3 points and France scored 7. He had good defence - on attack he did nothing except literally ran the ball out of play without being touched. It wasn't the game you imagine. He made a lot of tackles, but no one ever questioned his defence - they questioned his game management - which nothing about his play alleviated those criticisms. He made an easy kick - and we're all stoked that he got it - but it wasn't the redemption that you imagine. I personally would much rather have Isaac Ross over Stephen Donald.

For the record he's always seemed like a nice guy. And as a rugby player he was good enough to get the Chiefs to a final (albeit a ridiculously disappointing one). But he was really a pretty average All Black, who tried to take over when we had been relying on the best 10 in history.

The description of Donald as an average All Black does an injustice to the Rodney So'oialo's, Neemia Tialata's and Keith Robinson's of the world. Donald was a poor All Black. A really sound guy but he was poor by your guys standards, no two ways about it.

 

[chikwa chibwe]

all the french posters on here surrendering is curling my toenails.

99
07
and 2011

all taught us that the french will explode when they are least expected too.

I include 2011 in there as well because look! We destroyed the french in pool play, they limped through to the final and only just managed to beat a 14 man welsh side and looked crap doing it to somehow make the final then showed up and played the house down and got within a zigzag paper thickness of beating the All Blacks on Eden park!

That 2011 2nd half when the french got into a position where they were behind and needed to throw everything at the AB's to make it a contest and bloody well did so. That is what the All Blacks need to expect.
The Irish game? Absolutely meaningless... The french have a secret mode of play they save for world cup knockout games against the All Blacks.
The french will absolutely have some borderline tactics (Im not saying dirty, just something that crosses the line that may give them an edge.) to try and whether the ref picks up on it or not will have a major impact on the game. The french wont be showing up and expecting to simply beat the All Blacks playing rugby by the book its as simple as that.

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on the woodcock factor. he is the best prop we have ever produced but hes far from his best. IMO Bringing in Moody for woodcock actually strengthens our scrum overall. It probably wont happen but I like the idea of staring moody.... crockett is good off the bench and moody will be a player opposition teams wont have as much homework on.

I am in agreement !

 

[nickdnz]

Had the pleasure of meeting Stephen a few times, a very nice guy and had some great laughs with him over quite a few years, although as an Australian I always hoped he was the number 10 in the AB's

I think most Australian's wanted him to be our starting 10

 

[The Jones Boy]

This French side is not one of their 'great' teams.
Against Ireland they were strong on defence, especially the key man Dusatoir, but on attack they were ordinary.
Both the AB's and the French have made it into the knockout stages without spending much time troubling the bigger numbers in the gearbox.
The french attack was woeful against Ireland.
Their goal kicking was not much chop either.
It was almost like they wanted to avoid Argentina and they were waiting for us...

 

[first5eight]

I'm confident, but I dont think you'll find a single ABs supporter that doesnt respect what France is capable of, particualry against us!!

I just think its a really good spot for us. By all accounts there has been a lot of good stuff going on behind the scenes with the ABs, and I have absolutely no doubt what they have shown on the field has been deliberately held back/artificially simulated. We seem to be the lukciest of all the teams going into the QFs in terms of injuries/suspensions as well! Time will tell but I'm confident we win this one.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I can't remember one time in the last 4 years when we have played 4 average/bad games in row. I think that we've been manipulating pool games to suit the style of game we want to play/practise. We will play a completely different style against the French - we'll compete a lot more at the breakdown and also kick more often for territory. We only need to fabricate and finish a few opportunities and we will be away. I hope we come out the blocks quick and make a statement. It's time for Utu for 2007.

I actually like how it's potentially France, South Africa, Australia for the cup. As a Kiwi those 3 sides all fire up a certain feeling and I think we will be 'on' from here on in.

 

[nzlizard]

I dunno what the definition of 'best prop is' .. Woodcock certainly has had a huge amount of longevity and has the ability to read set piece moves extremely well. But if we're talking about scrummaging then Carl Hayman was better.

Carl Hayman is our best ever prop, followed by Woodcock.

Larksea - I think you will have a hard time finding people who live in the same reality as you do, when it comes to Stephen Donald.

He was a pretty poor All Blacks - who redeemed himself with a winning kick. As much as you want to say he saved us - technically he came on the field when it was 5-0 - and he scored 3 points and France scored 7. He had good defence - on attack he did nothing except literally ran the ball out of play without being touched. It wasn't the game you imagine. He made a lot of tackles, but no one ever questioned his defence - they questioned his game management - which nothing about his play alleviated those criticisms. He made an easy kick - and we're all stoked that he got it - but it wasn't the redemption that you imagine. I personally would much rather have Isaac Ross over Stephen Donald.

For the record he's always seemed like a nice guy. And as a rugby player he was good enough to get the Chiefs to a final (albeit a ridiculously disappointing one). But he was really a pretty average All Black, who tried to take over when we had been relying on the best 10 in history.

Pretty much agree with this, was a good super player, average AB at best. But he got the kick and tackled his heart out on the day and that is all that matters, the rest is history as they say.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Stephen Donald never won over Kiwi hearts during his run as an All Black.
He did get us across the line against the French in the RWC Final, for which we will be forever grateful that he gave up his week of white baiting.

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My big questions to the AB's is will they start well and will they be able to combat the very big French pack?
Will they show top level intensity for more than 15 minutes a game?

 

[Kiwi_]

The French came out here and won a test series 2-1 in 2010 I think it was and Donald was at the heart of that woeful series. It makes me cry evrytym.

At least he knocked it over in the final, the poor bugger rewrote his name in history, still a bit of a parody though isn't it.

 

[nickdnz]

The French came out here and won a test series 2-1 in 2010 I think it was and Donald was at the heart of that woeful series. It makes me cry evrytym.

At least he knocked it over in the final, the poor bugger rewrote his name in history, still a bit of a parody though isn't it.

It was 2009. We played Italy once that test series, and 2 times against France. It was 1-1 but France won on points diffiential till we beat them later that year on the EOYT. It was, tbf, the worst NZ I can recall us fielding - but Donald was as you say at the heart of it.

 

[The Jones Boy]

That's an ancient myth about Crockett that he's longed dispelled seasons ago. Woody is clearly past it and has been buckling, raising, angling in and getting done in the outfield. We're improved with his absence and Moodys addition, your points are very dated.

Its sad about Woody but you're right, this may be the best thing that has happened to our front row for a long time. Woodcock has been a magnificent servant but he's too long in the tooth now for the very top level. He's got a couple of years left in him as as a top earner in English club rugby teaching them the trade. hee hee hee

 

[Tony Manx]

Winning this game will not erase what happened in 99/07 but in 2011 we actually had issues as well we lost our 3rd string 10 early were left with a 4th string 10 who was about 10kg over weight, not to mention the pressure of playing at home with the burden of a 24 year WC winning drought . Thats got to count for something and I don't think France were that terribly unfancied.

I actually think it appears from this site atleast the average non kiwi considers this game to be in 50/50 territory which means France will be in a way lacking the element of surprise. How will France cope with this new found favouritism? Maybe with a few wines i hope lol.

You would have to think that the AB's will be expecting a massive effort from the French, so they know they will have to be at their best to have a chance of winning. Hopefully their best is good enough. The AB's best lately hasn't been too impressive so the French or any of the remaining teams can beat them but in reality it is a bit less likely then 50-50.

Never 50/50!!

Anyone who knows anything about NH rugby cannot see the French getting anywhere near the AB's even if they only play as they have done in this RWC.......

Only the Kiwis, who have seen the numerous dropped ball, missed opportunities and misfiring scrimmage, are lowering their own expectations of world dominance and are bigging up the French!!!

 

[McTallshort]

Going to be a rough night for France

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

Going to be a rough night for France

Not necessarily. I'm told they're preparing a white flag. Word has it, immediately following the singing of the national anthems, the French team are going to run off the field yelling 'wee wee wee wee wee wee' - as is French tradition.