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[2015 RWC] Quarter Final 4: Australia vs. Scotland (18/10/2015)

sanzar said:
This is also true - Easts now have a very strong ex-pat Kiwi fan base out here. They've caught on to the fact that they're wasting their time with the Warriors clearly ;-) .
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Yup the warriors are frustrating to follow.
 
Sonic Kiwi said:
Possibly, but it's a special feeling knowing that regardless of the Warriors, the Kiwis v Kangaroos......we have more trophies than OZ?

I'ts a travesty, although the wobblies do have the RC......DAMN IT :eek:
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Kiwis v Kangaroos have been building nicely over the past 10 years. Kangaroos and Kiwis literally have won exactly the same number of 3N/4N and RLWC over that period. Quite impressive from the Kiwis and a sign of just how influential NZ players are becoming in the NRL that they're now actively forgoing the chance to play Origin in favour of internationals.

As a Rugby League fan, I'm in the weird position of semi-barracking for NZ in League so that the profile of those tests continue to build. They now outrate the Bledisloe over here by about 2 to 1. Personally, I'd love to see an annual Bledisloe like series against NZ
 
sanzar said:
Kiwis v Kangaroos have been building nicely over the past 10 years. Kangaroos and Kiwis literally have won exactly the same number of 3N/4N and RLWC over that period. Quite impressive from the Kiwis and a sign of just how influential NZ players are becoming in the NRL that they're now actively forgoing the chance to play Origin in favour of internationals.

As a Rugby League fan, I'm in the weird position of semi-barracking for NZ in League so that the profile of those tests continue to build. They now outrate the Bledisloe over here by about 2 to 1. Personally, I'd love to see an annual Bledisloe like series against NZ
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HELL NO, if we started concentrating on league instead of union and OZ started concentrated on Union instead of league then we wouldn't be the best in the WORLD at union......no no no no no :D
 
Sonic Kiwi said:
HELL NO, if we started concentrating on league instead of union and OZ started concentrated on Union instead of league then we wouldn't be the best in the WORLD at union......no no no no no :D
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resize

Who says you can't kick arse at both? Long term the NRL have a strategic plan for 3 NZ sides from what I hear, so the profile of League and the power of the Kiwis will only get better. That may have some impact on the ABs, but not a lot I wouldn't think - Union will always rule NZ.

- - - Updated - - -

Just back on topic, as I suspected someone has already conducted a forensic review of the match and discovered that the whole picture is a little more complex than the "Joubert is a cheat" narrative some are insisting on:

1. 1st minute: Playing the halfback. Penalty – AU. Sct throwing the ball away. Sct marched 10 yards.
2. 3rd minute: first scrum. Clean. Fine.
3. ***4th minute: Sio charges for the line. Sct # 6 coming in from the side of the ruck. Joubert ignores.
4. 4th minute: Sct #4 offside. Joubert ignores.
Foley nearly scores. Mitchell drops. Scrum. No penalty to AU re points 3 and 4. Sct clear the lines.
5. 7th minute. Sct # 5 dragging the maul down. Perhaps no penalty as the maul split and went the other way.
6. 12th minute: AU-Fardy playing the ball not on feet. Penalty – Sct. Fair call.
7. 16th minute. Hooper does not survive the clean out. Fair call. No penalty. Miss Pocock.
8. 17th minute. Hogg try. Seems to come in from the side. But, to be fair, he couldn't because Hooper was lying in the way. Fair try.
9. 19th minute. Sct scrum penalty. AU collapsing maul under pressure. Fair penalty.
10. 26th minute. Clean scrum. Seems like it.
11. 27th minute. Sct hands in the ruck. AU penalty.
12. 29th minute. Sct hands in the ruck. AU play on. Mitchell try on sideline. Score, 10:13.
13. ***32nd minute. Scrum. Sct penalty, despite AU dominant scrum. Birdseye view shows this. AU going forward because Nel is not pushing. Gordon Bray notes tough call. Sio supposedly collapsed. But Nel has his elbow in the air and is not bound to the scrum. Reverse angle shows this. Laidlaw hits the penalty. 10-16.
14. 35th minute. Hogg gets caught with the ball. 5 AU players commit to the ruck. Sct # 4 comes in from the side right in front of Joubert. No penalty. And Scts box kick out.
15. 37th minute. Sio in a good position over the ball. Joubert says as much. Penalty AU.
16. 38th. Lineout. Scot # 4 swims around the side. Scot # 8 also swims. Maul collapses and Joubert calls swimming. Penalty AU.
17. ***39th minute. Scotland collapsed the maul just before Australia has touched down. Joubert plays advantage and had his arm out. Hooper-try. Had Au not gone over that close to the line given a couple of penalties against Sct in the previous 2 minutes, the penalty try must have been in mind. Possibly a yellow card as this would have been the 3rd penalty in 3 minutes. Plus, using Joubert's precedent from last week, that probably would have been enough for the YC. Penalty try would have been an easier kick for Foley.
18. 41st minute. Maitland knock down. Gordan Bray says no real attempt to catch the ball. AU penalty. But poor decision by Joubert to award the yellow card.
19. 43rd minute. Try Mitchell coming from driving maul. Foley converts. 20-16.
20. 45th minute. Maul. Scrum Sct. Joubert right in front of Sio and Nel. Nel pushing. Sio did collapse. Sct dominant. Fair penalty against AU. Score: 22-19.
21. 47th minute. Lineout 5 yards from Sct line. Simmonds going to up to catch. Sct do not compete. Sct # 4 grabs Simmonds in the air. Simmonds catches ball. Maul formed. Scottish commentator notes that AU scored two tries from rolling mauls. And Sct # 4 continues to drag Simmonds down to collapse the maul. AU penalty? Based on Joubert's penalty/YC on Mumm last week, Sct #4 should have at least been penalized for collapsing the maul or tackling the player before he had landed.
22. 48th minute. Genia to Mitchell. 1 yard from the line. Sct # 6 tackles Mitchell and never releases but goes for the ball. Genia knocls on. Several Scottish hands in the ruck. Try out wide to AU. Joubert hears Laidlaw point out knock on. TMO calls it. Perhaps a fair call at the end of the day.
23. 49th minute. Scrum. No penalty. Probably fair scrum. Sio, however, gets up from the scrum injured.
24. 52nd minute. Genia throws the ball into a lazy Sct player. AU penalty. 25-19.
25. 55th minute. Lineout. Ball thrown straight down Scot line. But AU did not compete. Play on.
26. ***57th minute. AAC kicks into Nel. Then Sct 10 catches ball in front. Accidental offside called by Joubert. Scrum. Slipper now on for Sio and pushes Nel off the ball, yet Joubert calls a new scrum. Actually, AU has a whole new front row that was clearly dominant yet no penalty. Moore gets up and says to Joubert: "they're pulling back." Joubert said he didn't get his head in. Why? Because he was pulling it back. Notwithstanding that an AU penalty should have been awarded, Scotland charge down and score out wide. Conversion missed. 25-24.
27. 61st minute. Possible knock on by Sct in own quarter. Close, but Joubert correct to say back.
28. ***At this point, wondering why Cheika has not at least brought on Tooma for Giteau. And possibly McMahon for Fardy.
29. ***64th minute. Pick and drive 2 yard from Sct line. Sct 7 blatantly offside right in front of Joubert. Much like the first couple of minutes on the Sct line (points 3 and 4), no adv. Had AU not scored, one wonders whether this would have been pulled up. It wasn't pulled up re points 3 and 4. The key point being that AU were not given an advantage when they should have been. This is the second time where Joubert has not given adv when AU on Sct line. TK scores so issue is somewhat moot. But could would shouda could have come into play had AU lost.
30. 67th minute. TPN pinged for not rolling away. Sct Penalty. I think this is the first penalty all game for not "rolling away" despite both teams doing it during the game. Wrong or right, I think this is the third time a Sct penalty has been awarded straight after AU score a try.
31. 68th minute. Sct on AU line. 67.24 Dean Mumm not rolling away. Fair call. At the 68.00 minute, the penalty is called against Mumm player not rolling away. Sct had 36 seconds of free play. This is, I think the second time a team has been called for not rolling away. I think it was fair, but I wonder why it had not been called before now. Score: 32-27.
32. ***71st minute. Scrum. Collapse. Both sides. TPN notes that Sct are not pushing. Both Slipper and Nel must work on "body shape" says Joubert. After a 3rd reset of the scrum. AU are completely dominant. Push Sct off the ball. And the overhead shot clearly shows Sct # 17 not scrumming straight—and boring in. This should have been a clear penalty to AU. But no. Joubert says ball out. Sct kick. AU catch. Slipper passes. Intercept. Score 34-27. Sct hit the lead. This I think is the second time Sct has scored from a scrum penalty that AU should have been awarded, but was not. See 57th minute.
33. 75th minute. Another excellent AU kick off. Mitchell pressure. Ball bounces back out of Sct hand. Hooper handles it bobbling around, but does not look forward from the camera angle. Very much a 50-50 call. A bit like the 61st minute. Scrum called.
34. 76th minute. Scrum. AU dominant pushing Sct back. Joubert does not want to call the penalty. Re-set. Then, short-arm penalty against Slipper despite Nel's arm hitting the ground first. Something Joubert pinged Sio for earlier in the game. But short-arm was called for early engagement. As the Scottish commentator says, "not a lot in that." Another 50-50 call for Scotland.
35. 79th minute. Accidental offside (AU scrum) v. Intentional offside (AU penalty). The jury will be out on this one for sometime as Joubert did not get the luxury of the replay.
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Sonic Kiwi said:
HELL NO, if we started concentrating on league instead of union and OZ started concentrated on Union instead of league then we wouldn't be the best in the WORLD at union......no no no no no :D
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You do realise we are ranked no1 in both codes....until we play the roos again were we will lose. ( unless Thurston and co decide to throw a sickie again )
 
ENZED-88 said:
You do realise we are ranked no1 in both codes....until we play the roos again were we will lose. ( unless Thurston and co decide to throw a sickie again )
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I do realise that, but I'm on my high horse and between you, me and the gate post, my stallion became a mare
 
Sonic Kiwi said:
I've got no idea, I was getting carried away in the moment, it made sense at the time......I'm just getting ramped
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Send me some of whatever's getting you ramped I got a man down in customs should be sweet.
 
What about the lack of penalties to Australia for the illegal scrummaging? That William Nel bloke was angling in 30 degrees plus ever damn time. The Scots planned to scrum illegally at the beginning IMHO. If the ref was fair throughout the entirety of the match it would have been 8 tries by my prediction. I saw ONE worthy try from Scotland. Step down and let Australia actually have a shot. The Pumas would eat you alive.

Had my heart going though!! Great match. And a really good day of rugby from the scots. Keep it up!
 
I think the point being over looked here is that if Joubert had made the right call it did not put Scotland into the semis. The media is suggesting the game was done and dusted at the point of this call when in actual fact there was 2 minutes to play and an Australia scrum would of taken place if Scotland had the correct call. The way Australia were scoring in the game you could easily see them getting over the line in that field position, they would also of had the option of a drop goal or forced penalty. England had the try in 2007 final disallowed, it is just one of those things in sport and to say Scotland were robbed of a certain win is kind of pushing it. It was their line out to get right.....
 
I thought, once the kick was taken there was about 50 seconds left. That's game over. There was no answer to that penalty, it comprehensively and unfairly decided the match.
 
Good analysis on why getting in a tizz over Joubert's call at the end is being rather selective:

Why the Scots Can't Feel Hard Done By After Joubert Got it Wrong

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It has been announced this morning that World Rugby has admitted that Craig Joubert got the last penalty decision wrong in the Scots match against Australia. The Scots were livid with the decision and their blood is now boiling after it was confirmed that it should not have been a penalty. Here's why they shouldn't be angry.
Wallabies Played all the Rugby

Yes, Scotland were up for the challenge but they didn't have much attacking flair. As highlighted in depth by Brian Smith in his article, the Wallabies were effective and Scotland pounced on the Wallabies mistakes but didn't do much with ball in hand.

The Wallabies outscored Scotland 5 tries to 3 with clinical, well executed tries. If it wasn't for Bernard Foley's kicking the Wallabies would have been ahead by a lot more.
The statistics back this up. The Wallabies made more runs (111), made more metres (652), made more line breaks (4) and missed less tackles (11).
There Were a Number of Wrong Decisions

Firstly, the opening try from Scotland should not have been awarded and this is something that is often missed by referees. There are actually two offside lines at the ruck and the attacking team must be behind the last feet (law 16.5 (a)). You can join a ruck by binding onto a player using the whole arm (law 16.2 (b)), putting your hand on someone's back does not count as being a part of the ruck. As you can see below, Peter Horne is well in front of the last feet of the ruck and he is not joined to the ruck as is therefore offside as he picks the ball up.
Law 15.6 (d):
"At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players' goal line."

It wasn't the most dominant Aussie scrum and the Scots were strong but there were also a lot of scrum penalties which could have gone either way. All scrum penalties were awarded to Scotland.
The Scots shenanigans at the scrum were great. Check out their 6 here, binding on Scott Fardy! pic.twitter.com/WG5p4tW6YZ
— Hugh Cavill (@hughcavill) October 19, 2015
​
Finally, the exact same incident happened moments earlier in the match but Joubert ruled that it was an accidental offside when it should have been a penalty awarded to the Wallabies.
Dear @WorldRugby will you be apologising to Samoa over the bad ref call that saw Scotland beat them? — WallabyJesus (@waratahjesus) October 19, 2015
​
Wallabies Were the Form Side

Scotland had already suffered a heavy loss to South Africa and were almost beaten by Samoa so they would have counted themselves pretty lucky to have made it to a semi-final. Meanwhile, Australia defeated England and Wales and finished at the top of their pool and if anyone deserves a semi final spot, it should be them. They should not feel lucky to have won this test match.
I look forward to World Rugby's public review of the 931 other debatable calls at this World Cup so far.
— Iain Payten (@iainpayten) October 19, 2015
​
Greig Laidlaw was obviously disappointed after the match but he didn't give any credit to the Australian side that won the match. His interview was reminiscent of Mike Brown's post match interview after England lost to Scotland. This is in stark contrast to Sam Warburton who was all class in his post match interview after Wales went down in a close match to South Africa.



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Got a bit busy in here during the Aus shift, eh boys! Bit sore that your world-beaters only just scraped past the small-fry... and even then, only with the help of a wrong refereeing call?

Calm down guys. Going by some of the the responses posted here overnight, you'd think that the Scots were insulting the sovereign state of Australia! We're not - we're just being critical of Joubert and expressing our disappointment at the way we lost such a massive game (for us!).

If the way you won the game embarrasses you, then that's your problem... deal with that embarrassment without dragging us into it please!

Anyway... what's with the many Aus references to the Samoa game!? As I recall, they fouled and fouled again (especially in the last quarter), and most educated observers were amazed that no one was getting sent to the bin! The alleged dump tackle? Oh come on... never in a million years was that deliberately dangerous. If that's a citing offence, then rugby is as well becoming a non-contact sport!
 
scootz said:
Anyway... what's with the many Aus references to the Samoa game!? As I recall, they fouled and fouled again (especially in the last quarter), and most educated observers were amazed that no one was getting sent to the bin! The alleged dump tackle? Oh come on... never in a million years was that deliberately dangerous. If that's a citing offence, then rugby is as well becoming a non-contact sport!
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I agree, but then Scotland directly benefited from Samoa having their best player rubbed out for the heinous act of running with the ball into a tackler. But hey, he's an islander so f#ck him - no outrage necessary apparently.

As for the rest mate, a lot of **** has been spun about the Scots being robbed. We're just calling bull**** on that and pointing out the game goes for 80 minutes and not 1.
 
scootz said:
Got a bit busy in here during the Aus shift, eh boys! Bit sore that your world-beaters only just scraped past the small-fry... and even then, only with the help of a wrong refereeing call?

Calm down guys. Going by some of the the responses posted here overnight, you'd think that the Scots were insulting the sovereign state of Australia! We're not - we're just being critical of Joubert and expressing our disappointment at the way we lost such a massive game (for us!).

If the way you won the game embarrasses you, then that's your problem... deal with that embarrassment without dragging us into it please!

Anyway... what's with the many Aus references to the Samoa game!? As I recall, they fouled and fouled again (especially in the last quarter), and most educated observers were amazed that no one was getting sent to the bin! The alleged dump tackle? Oh come on... never in a million years was that deliberately dangerous. If that's a citing offence, then rugby is as well becoming a non-contact sport!
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Eh, I just got off watching Oz beat you from a couple of days back.

To be honest, as a Kiwi I'd prefer Scotland being in the Semis.....must be a conspiracy eh?
 
sanzar said:
As for the rest mate, a lot of **** has been spun about the Scots being robbed. We're just calling bull**** on that and pointing out the game goes for 80 minutes and not 1.
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Amen, and THANK YOU.
 
sanzar said:
I agree, but then Scotland directly benefited from Samoa having their best player rubbed out for the heinous act of running with the ball into a tackler. But hey, he's an islander so f#ck him - no outrage necessary apparently.

As for the rest mate, a lot of **** has been spun about the Scots being robbed. We're just calling bull**** on that and pointing out the game goes for 80 minutes and not 1.
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So, to beat Australia, all teams must be convincingly ahead and win each minute of the game. Okay :lol:
 

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