[2015 TRC] South Africa v New Zealand in Johannesburg (25/07/2015)

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by TRF_heineken, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. Kiwi_

    Kiwi_ BANNED!!!

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    It's a shame ignorance like this feeds the masses though. The casual SA fan will think of McCaw as a lucky cheat. I've been like that myself in the past towards other Nations players. It'd be great if the big outlets were more informative and explanatory of issues like this, to discourage ignorance, also considering so many casual Rugby fans don't know the rules well.
     
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  3. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    I think here in lies the crux. Most SA fans think Richie is a cheat. But like I've said several times before in other threads, he has a brilliant rugby mind, and he knows how to manipulate the rules/laws to his advantage, whether it's at the breakdown area or any other area, he knows how to exploit weaknesses from opposing teams and referees. I think this journo is one of the ignorant many that is using this to get more readers and to fuel the fire of the hatred most Bok-fans have for Richie. I personally am a big fan of him, but I hate him when he plays against the SA teams.
     
  4. TRF_nickdnz

    TRF_nickdnz Super Moderator

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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  5. Icemn

    Icemn First XV

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    oh yes absolutely! since you brought up colour...

    us colourds like an expansive skillful type of gameplay, think rugby... coloreds in general are smaller, as the saying goes... if you not strong/big.. be smart... so we play a thinking game... we do not play-stampkar rugby... you cannot tell a player what he has to do exactly on the 50min mark... as heineken meyer is doing...

    i do not buy chicken from a franchise if i know the chicken is dry... i'd rather go further to a franchise where i know the chicken is to my liking... if you like the dry chicken at the specific franchise... enjoy it, its your choice... but dont point fingers at others if they don't share the passion for dry chicken...

    i dont like the stampkar rugby you play, i dont like most of the players you select, i dont like your coach... so why should i support them :? if you so patriotic why dont you complain about the million od manchester utd and liverpool/read Madrid fans in SA... isn't that the same thing?

    but you point finger at Ab black supports? yes, you do get the common "gloryhunters" that give the real fans a bad-name aswell... i hate them too... so please stop generalizing... and ill stop generalizing with the stampkar fans...

    "we phirst goes threw hims... and and and thens we goes overs him..."

    they will never host the Ab in cape Town, because that will be a home game for NZ! and it hurts lol the same when man united played chiefs in cape town a few years ago... it was a home game for Man UTd... but no-one complained about ANc and ****... and coloured people and ****... no-one cared... but support another rugby team and you the scum of the earth?

    i will always support the Hurricanes, most dangerous running team in broken play in the S15 series... why must i support the boring "dry-chicken" stormers because if like close to that franchise?
     
  6. smartcooky

    smartcooky Referee Coach and Advisor

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    Yes he is. The law calls this player the receiver.

    [TEXTAREA]LAW 19 DEFINITIONS
    Receiver. The receiver is the player in position to catch the ball when lineout
    players pass or knock the ball back from the lineout. Any player may be the
    receiver but each team may have only one receiver at a lineout

    ...

    Players taking part in the lineout known as participating players. Players
    taking part in the lineout are the player who throws-in and an immediate
    opponent, the two players waiting to receive the ball from the lineout and the
    line-outplayers.[/TEXTAREA]

    [TEXTAREA]LAW 19.8
    (i) Where the receiver must stand. If a team uses a receiver, then that player, must be
    positioned at least 2m back from team mates in the lineout, and between the 5m and 15m
    lines, until the line-out begins.
    Once the lineout has commenced, the receiver may move into the lineout and may perform
    all actions available to players in the lineout and is liable to related sanctions.

    Sanction: Free kick on the 15 metre line along the line of touch[/TEXTAREA]

    Note that teams don't actually have to have a receiver (South Africa actually didn't. They put Pienaar right back on the goal-line.)

    No because the "numbers in the line-out" only applies before the ball is thrown. Remember, the numbers do not have to match, its just that the throwing team sets the numbers, and the non thrown team can have the same or less but not more.

    There could also be an interesting variation on this, and teams had better be aware of it. In the variation used on Saturday, McCaw was not allowed to move towards the line-out until the ball was thrown. However, this Law also applies....

    [TEXTAREA]Law 19.8
    (k) Participating players in a line-out may change places before the ball is thrown.[/TEXTAREA]

    Note that it says "participating players", not "line-out players". Now have a look at the definitions I posted earlier in this post and note that "participating players" includes the receiver

    The means that McCaw could start his run before the ball is thrown if the tail-gunner in the line-out (who was not involved in the lifting pod) leaves and goes into the receiver position at the same time just before the ball is thrown.

    I can imagine a move where they put a three man pod half-way between the 5m and 15m lines plus an extra player just behind them, and fake that they were going to do this move but instead of waiting for the throw-in, the receiver starts running in as if to take the ball and the extra man moves back into the receiver position. The ball actually is thrown to the jumper who flicks it behind him to the new receiver who started his run into the line as soon as the ball is thrown. He catches the ball and scores unopposed.
     
  7. ncurd

    ncurd International

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    Icemn first up your post was really bloody hard to read but you're confusing the issue as I see it.

    henineken was calling into question not supporting the Springboks not Super Rugby teams. International sport is suppose to be about seeing nations come up against one another and traditionally you back your nation through thick in thin (even if thy are playing garbage) it's not about choosing the side that plays the best rugby otherwise we may as well all give up now declare the AB's conquers of rugby union.

    National sport is very different egg where teams become a lot more cosmopolitan (your Man Utd example contain an array of foreign players and they are usually one of the better PL sides for it). So cross border support especially if your sides don't match up well (otherwise I'm suppose to enjoy Elite hockey more than the NHL and that's just madness in terms of skill levels).

    Your not the only person I've come across I've seen people in England support the AB's as they play better rugby but I for one can never understand not supporting your country.
     
  8. goodNumber10

    goodNumber10 International

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  9. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    yeah exactly.

    Not that I can see what he posts as he's on my ignore list.

    But it was meant with regard to the Springboks and not Super Rugby teams. Some of my friends support Aussie or NZ teams. My cousin is a big Blues fan. and he has a collection of all the NZ team jerseys.

    But he supports the Springboks in the international scene, and he wears his Sprinbok jersey proudly.

    The Cape Crusaders have a bad reputation, and it is because of them that Cape Town doesn't get home tests that involves the All Blacks. It's not my point of view, it's a fact and even SARU will back that up.
     
  10. smartcooky

    smartcooky Referee Coach and Advisor

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    Arrgh Mods. You moved these posts to the wrong thread. This is the 2014 match thread

    Everything from and including post 301 need to be moved to the 2015 thread
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2015
  11. TRF_nickdnz

    TRF_nickdnz Super Moderator

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    A rugby facebook group hosted by a former member. It's interesting how it has gone almost entirely unnoticed.
     
  12. goodNumber10

    goodNumber10 International

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    just watched it within the game context: 11:25 on the game clock, straight after Le Roux try.

    It looks worse isolated, in real time/scope it look slike aclumsy/awkward clear out then a silly push on McCaw - who just runs off and gets o with it.
     
  13. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    Well it is certainly starting to pick up in social media.

    Bryce Lawrence and Jonathan Kaplan have both voiced their remarks on this try already:

    http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/Lawrence-backs-McCaw-try-decision-20150728 and http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/Kaplan-McCaw-try-was-illegal-20150728

    I think it's starting to get a bit out of hand though. They are making a mess of what was an epic test match. And there's not much that can be done now anyways. The recordbooks will remain unchanged.
     
  14. smartcooky

    smartcooky Referee Coach and Advisor

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    Just be careful with that one because that Law states "if the Union having jurisdiction over a match or a match organiser decides"

    I know from talking to other referees on the referees forum, including quite a few RFU National Panel referees, that the "man-off" rule was at one time not applied universally throughout England. "Match Organiser" can be a County or District Rugby Union or even a Constituent Body. I think "man-off" applies in the County Championship, but not in some other competitions. I have even heard of some counties in England where "man-off" applies in some competitions but not others; in the same county!! Go figure!!
     
  15. Sker

    Sker First XV

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    That was an awesome game. Yes we lost, but it was still a great contest. I really liked what I saw with De Allende and Kriel. Just one thing I miss is having a super fast skilled wing that can burn anyone. Habana circa 2006, 2007

    Lood was awesome in my opinion.

    Richie McCaw, damn that guy is class.

    Icemn, still around I see. Your posts are delightful as always, do continue.

    EDIT:

    In terms of forwards, how far off was this (the All Blacks) team from one that would start in a RWC KO round?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2015
  16. chikwa chibwe

    chikwa chibwe Academy Player

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    I need to watch this game again . Raving review for the boks.
    How did the all blacks manage to win a game in which they were utterly dominated ( though the stats show springbok domination . They are a lot closer than the total domination of the all blacks that the boks " achieved "
    If the all blacks were the team camped on the bok line with a one man advantage & uncontested scrums would they have taken advantage of their numerical superiority ?
    Last year in New Zealand when Bismarck du plessis was sent off, that was the reason for the boks loss .
    At the return game in a highly entertaining rugby match, the all blacks had 2 yellow cards & still won.
    A mans response in adversity is what defines him .
    I think the all blacks deserve just a little credit for their uncanny ability to win against the odds. Ask the Irish ?
     
  17. Kiwi_

    Kiwi_ BANNED!!!

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    Links down, mind reposting?
     
  18. smartcooky

    smartcooky Referee Coach and Advisor

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    Bismarck wasn't red carded in that match, nobody was carded at all. Perhaps your are thinking of 2013

    If so, then while it didn't help, there is no way of knowing whether it affected the result or not. South Africa actually had a one man advantage at the end with both Nonu and Read in the bin.

    A one (or sometimes two) man advantage doesn't always determine the outcome of the match (Crusaders v Shawks 2013, England v New Zealand 2003 and 2005 are a couple of examples)
     
  19. FlukeArtist

    FlukeArtist Bench Player

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    Hey Sker,

    I would say that is probably close to the starting team.
    Swap Messam for Kaino and Broadhurst for Whitelock and that is probably the starting forward pack.

    I don't think there is such a thing these days as a number 1 starting team. Line up seems to be tweaked here and there depending on the opposition.
    Messam v The Boks is a good example of this, he seems to get a lot of game time v SA.

    If I had to pick, the team would look like this:

    Woodcock, Coles, Franks
    Retallick, Whitelock
    Kaino, McCaw, Read
    A.Smith
    Carter,Nonu, C.Smith
    Savea, Smith, Piutau.

    Bench:
    Faumuina, Crockett
    Mealamu
    Broadhurst, Messam
    Perenara, Barrett, Fekitoa, Williams.
     
  20. Mcfadden

    Mcfadden Bench Player

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    Pretty much what FlukeArtist said. Broadhurst was just an experiment, and Messam lacks the discipline and power of Kaino. Some people will try and tell you that Crockett should/will start over Woodcock but I don't agree. Woodcock was always the incumbent, and he seems to stand up when it matters - he can score some pretty marvelous tries. That and also he is less likely to give away a penalty at scrum time, generally speaking. I'm a fan of Crockett though, and I realize he has his strengths too.
     
  21. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Hall of Fame

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    Wyatt Crockett looks and sounds like a farm.
     
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