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[2015 TRC] South Africa v New Zealand in Johannesburg (25/07/2015)

great game, really physical and man what a hostile environment. I can't imagine how hard it must be for the AB's to go there and win a game. Massive vocal crowd and unusual conditions. At the end of the day it was an epic test victory, huge game between the #1 & #2 teams in the world.

first up good game from sopoaga, I dont think you can expect much more from a guy on debut at 10. He left a few points on the field with a couple of missed kicks but did get the ones he really needed too, was pretty good in general play, worked hard in defense and came good with that superb try assist. Just makes things even more complicated when it comes to the WC squad.

I thought a few guys who just came into this side were a bit rusty. Conrad, Messam, Broadhurst in particular. But also Aaron Smith and Ben Smith looked a bit rusty in what was the first test of the season. I think if you played them all again next game they would all be significantly better.

Conrad just a bit rusty I dont think hes all of a sudden gone end of life and should be dropped, he will be fine with some more gametime. To make a brutal and honest observation, I think the young, powerful and phyiscal springbok midfield pair is the worst possible match up for conrad smith defensively. Any other midfield combo in test footy right now I dont see an issue, hopefully he learns from this game and has a better plan if he faces them later on in the year.

Messam was involved a lot on defense but probably didn't have the impact he would have been looking for, like conrad he needs some gametime. What I really dont like in how the AB's use Messam is that if you watch him in super rugby hes an 80min player, he builds into games and is strongest in the last 20 because of his superb fitness & mobility for a 6 he is a huge player between the 60-80min mark. Draging him off after 60 is not using his strengths. Some of it has to be on him though if he knows he's only got 60min then he should come out firing for the 2nd half and have a big 20min.

Broadhurst did have a rough half game and it wasn't what he would have hoped for, he looked a bit tentative and unsure of himself at times. Not everyone can play well on debut I hope he gets another chance. I would give him two more chances, he outplayed Thrush significantly this year and is significantly more physical, bigger, faster with a much bigger workrate. We got to back him. Retalick should rest next game give him another go.

A lot of hate aimed at Woodcock and Franks. I dont think it's justified, their experience is critical and I really doubt young guys would be able to step in and shine. This year is not the year to replace them... We really dont need to.

McCaw was superb, lets face it when all is said and done McCaw is the greatest player to ever take the field and play rugby. Most of his exploits will never be emulated. Everyone expects him to retire I think there is a "chance" he will stay on for 2 more years... I think if it feels like its time he will retire but if he wants to keep playing and feels good then he will keep playing.

Piutau was superb, that play where he came to the right wing and cleaned up a kick that looked dead set for a springbok try was like wow... That is a match winning play right there.
Our best back 3 combination would be 11, Savea 14, Piutau 15, Ben Smith. I really dont see any argument against that. Naholo is injured and there is no way Jane can play his way back from where he currently is, not to anywhere near the level Piutau is putting out. I really hope we see that combination soon but Piutau has now had 3 games in a row and will probably be rotated. I guess the one box left to check is NMS, but even if he gets a chance and plays well I can't see him changing the position Piutau has established for himself in the team.

With Aaron Smith looking a bit rusty, Perenara actually came on and really added to the game. I know it's only two tests but the last two games the biggest question about the AB's squad makeup has been answered, Perenara is finally looking like a genuine backup to Smith.

Quick general observations on the game. I thought turning down 3 points early for that failed quick tap was a huge mistake. The key to beating the boks is to stay with them early by picking up points when you can when they come out firing.

Discipline was a bit of an issue. The ref picking up a few silly high tackles and ruck penalties that were a bit meaningless.

The sam whitelock card was a bit harsh. But I think the biggest problem about that card is the inconsistency. There were two instances by the springboks which were similar or worse than what whitelock did yet no card...

AB defense was superb, in particular in that first half when the Boks were rampant and would have/should have had a lot more points from the possession and attack they had if not for some good defense. Eveb though it looked rough at times I think any other team would have let in 15+ points more to the boks in that first half.
 
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Sorry about the late response. I felt the uncontested scrums threw SA off their game too much and the result was going to be an inevitable All Blacks win after that.
Maybe I am biased because I am a hooker myself and love scrummaging!

Apparently that was South Africa's own fault.

The story I am hearing coming out is that Trevor Nyakane was nominated as LHP only, despite the fact that he has played both THP and LHP for the Cheetahs and the Bulls, but as a starting player and from the bench. In fact, his SANZAR player profile makes this very point

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/player-profile/?season=2015&competition=205&team=97&player=19115

[TEXTAREA]Trevor Nyakane got his big chance in 2011 Currie Cup competition as an impact player and impressed with his ball skills and his powerful scrumming.

After playing 11 Super Rugby matches for the Cheetahs during 2012 and three Currie Cup matches, he was sidelined for the remainder of the season due to a broken thumb.

Nyakane can pack down on either side of the scrum, which was an asset that played a part in him making his Test debut against in 2013 after an outstanding Super Rugby season for his franchise.

The former Cheetahs' prop moves to the Bulls this season and will be hoping to hit the ground running, carrying his strong form throughout the campaign into potential selection for the 2015 Rugby World Cup.[/TEXTAREA]

Engineers of their own misfortune by the look of things.
 
I agree with everything, Larksea. Good analysis. I've been very impressed with Perenara this year. I wouldn't mind if the clearances were a touch quicker at times, but the big story is he needed to improve on the back of last year. And he has done that.

I really don't think we should underestimate the experience, technique, craft and scrummaging of Woodcock. We won all 10 scrums on our own feed, and he contributed to that. I like Crockett, but it seems like Woodcock would be less inclined to give a penalty away. A Rugby World Cup Final is going to be a grind - not a quick sprint. So it really doesn't matter is he looks "old and slow" (which I don't agree with anyway.) You just need to give away less penalties as possible and do the basics well. Crocky was running on to the ball very strongly, but he was fresh legs.

Broadhurst deserves another start. It would be unfair to suggest he's finished after a quiet debut against one of the best teams in the world at altitude. Most players, including some of NZ's very best, have had the luxury of debuting during a home match. Or against an opposition like Scotland.
 
I forgot to mention one thing that really stuck out about the coverage of the game.

AGAIN the TV coverage, local TV producers picked up a couple of potential foul play instances by the All Blacks and replayed them a number of times. another example of what happened last year where the big screen replays influenced the match officials and it basically decided the game.

one I think was a Coles tackle where there was a bit of a lift but the player didn't go horizontal and he landed safely. But it was replayed like 3-4 times... There was one other instance as well.

basically the producers replaying an incident trying to get a crowd reaction and influence the match officials, just like last year. It shouldn't happen, they are clearly not objective replays. There are accepted advantages for having the home field. This goes well beyond that.

It didn't affect the game or the result. But it seemed that was what they were trying to do...
 
Had a day or so to think about the game.

Broadhurst really wasn't up to it, didn't have the impact required for me, esp his body position, just caught short.

Sopoaga really impressed and surprised me, for his first game he looked the part and didn't really do anything wrong, will be interesting to see what the selectors think about #10 now, in reality he needs another game to see how he goes, this could be the 2nd Bledisloe game.

The forwards were ok, I thought Woodcock was not up to his usual standard, the thing that concerns me is we don't get enough turnovers, I am not just talking this game but in general, you look at the top teams and they effect much better turnover ball than us, it looks like a combination of not committing the players at the ruck and not been quick enough with what we do commit. But the plus side for me is the depth on the bench, we play all the way though to the bench.

The backs were great, Conrad is showing chinks in the armor over the last 12 months that never used to be present and my gut feeling is it is age related, in saying that we have good cover that has shown in the last 2 games that we have alternatives, Fekitoa was golden when he came on, he must have cemented his spot.

The back three surely have to be Piutau, Savea and Smith, Dagg tried to inject himself into the game which is good to see, but didn't have the impact desired and a couple of times caught out short.

TJP was good of the bench and I feel he has upped his game, which is great for the AB's in WC year.

Some of the team looked a little rusty, but remembering playing SA in SA is a big ask and the Boks played pretty good.

Props up to the Bok centres, they looked the good and will be a threat for a long time to come.

If we play our best 15 next week it will have to be

Woodcock
Coles
Franks
Whitelock
Retallick
Kaino
McCaw
Read
Smith
Carter
Savea
Nono
Smith
Piutau
Smith
 
I agree with nearly everything Larksea said, except Woodcock. He's clearly not up to standard anymore and we lost the scrums. Franks had some dominance on his side, but Tony was struggling and off the ball he's non-existent, we would be far better of playing Crockett, who's better in the scrums now, bigger and a great ball carrier. Really not sure how you can say otherwise when SA were clearly dominating our scrum.

It surprises me people are so surprised with the Highlanders players, these guys have been awesome for 2 seasons now. Slade and Dagg looking like they will be the ones to miss out. The 2 tries the Springbok scored were a result of Dagg and Conrad/Nonu missing that tackle (certainly keep both though), but they did target our midfield a number of times.

We need a counter rucking flanker as well, a cleaner for good quick ball as well. Julian Savea, it's a shame he's not going.
 
Is that in reference to my comment jabby?

yeah, sorry, should have quoted. I just mean as much as i agree with the "form is temporary, class is permanent", and i do, when the knock out games come around there are no do overs. i just mean i hope we go into the WC with a proper midfielder in the bench and not just a utility so the Nonu / Smith legend doesn't get tarnished by a poor performance in an important game. I cant remember the last time out back line got opened like it was on Sunday, both tries came through that midfield
 
I forgot to mention one thing that really stuck out about the coverage of the game.

AGAIN the TV coverage, local TV producers picked up a couple of potential foul play instances by the All Blacks and replayed them a number of times. another example of what happened last year where the big screen replays influenced the match officials and it basically decided the game.

one I think was a Coles tackle where there was a bit of a lift but the player didn't go horizontal and he landed safely. But it was replayed like 3-4 times... There was one other instance as well.

basically the producers replaying an incident trying to get a crowd reaction and influence the match officials, just like last year. It shouldn't happen, they are clearly not objective replays. There are accepted advantages for having the home field. This goes well beyond that.

It didn't affect the game or the result. But it seemed that was what they were trying to do...

It was the head-high tackle by Messam, repeated at least five times in slo-mo

Meanwhile, there were a number of other incidents of foul play by Springbok players too, e.g. the marginal head high tackle on Broadhurst followed by him being dragged to ground in a neck hold, that magically went undetected by the program director, Mr Blind Freddy!!

Nothing new there then!!
 
De Allende/Kriel, that young midfield pairing completely outplayed Nonu/Smith. De Allende ball carrying is immense he was bumping off defenders for the entire game, not only that he has nice distribution. Kriel looks like a great prospect at 13, he completely burned Nonu and Smith through that gap. Looks like age is getting to them both now, Nonu/Smith had a bad day, outbossed by a rookie pairing. I don't see how JDV will claim back that 12 jersey, De Allende and Kriel compliment each other quite well, De Allende carries hard to the line and Kriel just beats everyone with blistering pace.
 
yeah, sorry, should have quoted. I just mean as much as i agree with the "form is temporary, class is permanent", and i do, when the knock out games come around there are no do overs. i just mean i hope we go into the WC with a proper midfielder in the bench and not just a utility so the Nonu / Smith legend doesn't get tarnished by a poor performance in an important game. I cant remember the last time out back line got opened like it was on Sunday, both tries came through that midfield

Please give some credit to the 'Boks!

The first try was thanks to a poor piece of judgement by Dagg in firing a hospital pass to Read. The NZ midfleld were heading back to get into attacking position and suddenly had to re-adjust in little time when possession was lost, and we were caught short on the outside (not the midfield) after Schalk's freakish pass.

The second try came from a superb running line by Jesse Kriel and I would suggest that the is not a midfield combination in the world that would have stopped that try from being scored


I also don't get why some people are getting on Conrad Smith's case. He only missed 1 of his 6 tackles (the one on Kreil that led to the try). Ma'a' Nonu missed 4 of his 8, and non-ones ragging on him!!!
 
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Yeah I seriously would give Conrad a break and more game time. His first game back in black at Ellis Park is a tough one, especially against an explosive Bokke midfield and he lasted the 80 and Fekitoa sured things up when he came on and they worked well. The midfield to me is fine, maybe tiring some what and might now not have the legs for some games, but let's see how they go vs Australia. What we do know is Fekitoa and SBW can do a great job anyway. So I wouldn't panic about it.

The try they scored was a great flat ball run onto with some blistering pace, there's no real stopping that. Dane Coles went and did the identical thing 2 minutes later.
 
yeah, sorry, should have quoted. I just mean as much as i agree with the "form is temporary, class is permanent", and i do, when the knock out games come around there are no do overs. i just mean i hope we go into the WC with a proper midfielder in the bench and not just a utility so the Nonu / Smith legend doesn't get tarnished by a poor performance in an important game. I cant remember the last time out back line got opened like it was on Sunday, both tries came through that midfield

Yeah fair enough Jabby.

I just think Nonu and Smith won't get fooled again. If they meet De Allande and Kriel again at RWC, those guys won't get one over them again.
 
I agree. Just because a couple of players have a bad day at the office is no reason to panic. We are well covered in the midfield (SBW, Fekitoa, Crotty) if things don't pan out in the next two tests.

Another positive for me was the performance of Lima Sopoaga. @austingtir said earlier that he needed to have a start, not just a few minutes off the bench.... he got his wish. Talk about getting chucked in at the deep end; your début in the key position of #10, in the toughest environment in world rugby, at altitude, against the strongest opponent in the world. He handled it with class and confidence, and look who he burned to set up that try for Ben Smith at the end of the first half... the very same DeAllende and Kriel who everyone has been heaping praise on, and from a sharp inside pass from Nonu.
 
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You cant let a team score straight after you scored. Thats just bad karma man.

Please give some credit to the 'Boks!

The first try was thanks to a poor piece of judgement by Dagg in firing a hospital pass to Read. The NZ midfleld were heading back to get into attacking position and suddenly had to re-adjust in little time when possession was lost, and we were caught short on the outside (not the midfield) after Schalk's freakish pass.

The second try came from a superb running line by Jesse Kriel and I would suggest that the is not a midfield combination in the world that would have stopped that try from being scored


I also don't get why some people are getting on Conrad Smith's case. He only missed 1 of his 6 tackles (the one on Kreil that led to the try). Ma'a' Nonu missed 4 of his 8, and non-ones ragging on him!!!

Yes, I don't think the Boks are getting nearly enough credit for how they played, and I don't think that the All Black midfield (or any of the team, for that matter) did quite as badly as some have implied. The All Blacks had to defend for long periods of time, against the number 2 team in the world, on their home turf, at altitude, where they were beaten last year.

I dont think C.Smith had a particularly bad game, and I thought Broadhurst went ok (he got caught too upright when he wasn't expecting the ball, and maybe wasn't as effective as we hoped he'd be, but I can't think of a tougher game to make your debut)

Even Piutau, who had an awesome game IMO, made mistakes, as did Sopoaga, who also had a good game.


I try main area of disappointment was probably Barrett coming on at fullback for thirty minutes. I'm not saying he was bad, just that I was looking forward to seeing if he could provide some answers to the balance of the RWC squad, and he didn't really feature much.

Id expect that well see Barrett and Slade share the number 10 duties in the next match against the Aussies, so maybe we won't get an answer as to whether one or other will surplant Dagg as the second fullback option.

Id expect well see Savea back for the next match, with B.Smith at full back, and Piutau on the right wing, with NMS on the bench.

Sam Cane might also get a start, as he (and the players mentioned above), need game time.

What did people think of Vito in this match? I didn't think he went too bad, but he probably needs another opportunity
 
I try main area of disappointment was probably Barrett coming on at fullback for thirty minutes. I'm not saying he was bad, just that I was looking forward to seeing if he could provide some answers to the balance of the RWC squad, and he didn't really feature much.

While I agree, I think its hard for an impact player show visible impact when replacing BEN SMITH!!!!


Id expect that well see Barrett and Slade share the number 10 duties in the next match against the Aussies, so maybe we won't get an answer as to whether one or other will surplant Dagg as the second fullback option.

Id expect well see Savea back for the next match, with B.Smith at full back, and Piutau on the right wing, with NMS on the bench.


Sam Cane might also get a start, as he (and the players mentioned above), need game time.

I'll be very disappointed if Shag doesn't select his No. 1 strongest possible team (to try and secure the Half-Rugby Championship and Bledisloe Cup) then perhaps give those players you mention game time for the second Bledisloe at home if it's not still up for grabs. People seem to be forgetting that while there are only two test before the RWC, they also have matches against Argentina, Tonga, Georgia and Namibia for some fine tuning before the business end of the tournament.


What did people think of Vito in this match? I didn't think he went too bad, but he probably needs another opportunity

Vito did what Vito usually does; nothing spectacular, but everything very, very well and with very few, if any, errors.
 
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Yeah fair enough Jabby.

I just think Nonu and Smith won't get fooled again. If they meet De Allande and Kriel again at RWC, those guys won't get one over them again.

Depends on whose pack is on top for my money. De Allende and Kriel look hotter than a F1 car on fire going forwards, and I think every centre combination's going to look stupid against them occasionally, but there's stronger partnerships when the traffic starts going the other way. It'll be interesting to see if Meyer decides to keep them together if JdV gets properly fit.

Which is to Nonu/Smith's credit imo. If you're going to cut open, those are the boys to get cut open by - and as I said, I don't think anyone's going to get it entirely right against them.
 
It wasn't long ago during the entire Super Rugby competition that people were saying Nonu and Smith were in best form of their lives. Now because Conrad made a mistake or two in his first international fixture of the year hes "getting too old." Everybody was acknowledged as being rusty in the first international encounter against Samoa - so how come that isn't a good enough reason for CS? Nevermind the fact that South Africa are a very good team. Let's respect that.
 
Not much talk about the two dismissals of penaltys for a quick tap and something else I forget what it actually was but it was weird? It was a very odd way to start a game like this and put us under all sorts of pressure early on and helped get the Boks on the front foot I thought.

- - - Updated - - -

It wasn't long ago during the entire Super Rugby competition that people were saying Nonu and Smith were in best form of their lives. Now because Conrad made a mistake or two in his first international fixture of the year hes "getting too old." Everybody was acknowledged as being rusty in the first international encounter against Samoa - so how come that isn't a good enough reason for CS? Nevermind the fact that South Africa are a very good team. Let's respect that.

It was alot more than a mistake or two. Everything Conrad did turned to custard in this game I honestly couldnt believe my eyes as to what was going on and followed him closely for the rest of the match. I challenge anyone to make a reel of him doing more than a few things right in this game and then compare it to highlights of what he did wrong.

I was dumfounded when they replaced Nonu instead of him.... And then he went on to make even more cockups.

Harsh I know but its the truth.

That all said I agree that id probably have to play him again.... BUT id likely have SBW and Fekitoa on the bench this time. The reason is im getting that Jane vs England last year feel about him... but I hope not. I honestly think he's taken the Canes loss in the SR final pretty hard...:p
 
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Wow! I had the privelege to sit in the stands and watch these 2 teams bash it out. It was absolutely fantastic! This has to go down as the 3rd best game I have ever watched live!

But, what wasn't shown as much on tv was how bloody cold it was, it was 1 degree celsius a half an hour before kick-off!! And NZ had the advantage of the wind at their backs in the first half, before it stopped.

I suspect Heikeke Meyer has been a victim of South Africa's "political" selection policy.
He has. There were a small group of protesters outside the gates saying that the teams is too white. And yesterday there were also discussions in some local newspapers regarding the team and the selection of white players over black players. I feel very sorry for HM. He just can't win, whether it's on the field or politically, or with the fans.

Back to the game. I thought Willie Le Roux was rather poor on defense, especially with that Coles try. Jesse Kriel is slowly becoming a phenominal 13, and I have a feeling JDV's time is running out quicker than we think. De Allende's defence was better than last week, and it had to be against Nonu and Smith. Habana looks sluggish and Hendricks clearly needed some more game time before being rushed in after his injury, They should've brought in Mapoe way earlier.

But what a performance by our forwards. Heinrich Brussouw was again his mongrel-self. He is definitely what we need going into the World Cup. Francois Louw's spot in the team might be in jeopardy after Brussouws stellar performance. And yet again our Locks were a tower of strength!

And I would like to mention Jannie Du Plessis. That was now 2 games in a row where we was great! And I failed to see any good from either Frans Malherbe last week, and Vincent Koch this week to overtake Jannie in the tight head position. Jannie was solid.

Congrats NZ! you showed on Saturday that you are an 80 minute plus team, while I think the Bokke is just a 70 mintue team at the moment. We alwas seem to slack off the last 5 minutes in the first half, and the closing stages of the match. Our bench was yet again a problem. And that uncontested scrums was our downfall. We were in control, AB's just got a yellow card, we were camping on tha AB's goal line, and then we couldn't utilize our scrum. But these things happen, and we should learn from this.

For a change I thought the French ref did a pretty good job (from what I saw) I just thought that the offside lines weren't patrolled well.

I'm going to watch the game on tv tonight and see it from another perspective.

I have to say I had an awesome weekend, first this game, and then yesterday I had the privelege to see Michael Flatley perform live!
 

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