[2017 Super Rugby] Round 18: Hurricanes vs. Crusaders (15/07/2017)

[Penne Rara]

julians gotta pull finger.

After rewatching the game, I think Jules was absolutely horrendous on defense. He left his spot and allowed the Crusaders to score twice by running inside his vacant channel. Jordie was too young and an inexperienced center, he didn't know he had to stay behind to cover for runners coming in the blindside. He should also be aware that Julian is a dork when it comes to defense and positioning, so hopefully he'll now know where he's got to be, and also be conscious that he's got to communicate with his outside backs a bit more.

 

[mania]

I think Jules was absolutely horrendous on defense.

yes as you mentioned one of the tries he comes off his wing and the ball gets off loaded try. wings should always stay on the outside man to allow the cover D to take the inside players who are closer to the coverD.
julian fkd that one up.
also julian didnt break any tackles in that game. in the ABs test i think i saw him break one tackle.
sorry julian. as great a player as you have been you need to evolve your game cos everyone else is leaving you behind.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

yes as you mentioned one of the tries he comes off his wing and the ball gets off loaded try. wings should always stay on the outside man to allow the cover D to take the inside players who are closer to the coverD.
julian fkd that one up.
also julian didnt break any tackles in that game. in the ABs test i think i saw him break one tackle.
sorry julian. as great a player as you have been you need to evolve your game cos everyone else is leaving you behind.

There is simply no viable reason anymore (maybe experience but it's a very weak argument) to select Savea as the power winger over Naholo. Every aspect of Naholo's game is better. As is Ioane's except for out and out power.

 

[mania]

There is simply no viable reason anymore to select Savea as the power winger over Naholo.

its been a couple of seasons now that julians waned. d4m on the cusp of taking the ABsAllTries record off dHowlett.

as big a fan as i am of julians, i gotta agree that he's been surpassed by naholo. ive seen naholo burn julian quite a few times now in super rugby.

shame cos julian has so much more to his game than just brute force but he's not bringing any of that to the table.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

its been a couple of seasons now that julians waned. d4m on the cusp of taking the ABsAllTries record off dHowlett.

as big a fan as i am of julians, i gotta agree that he's been surpassed by naholo. ive seen naholo burn julian quite a few times now in super rugby.

shame cos julian has so much more to his game than just brute force but he's not bringing any of that to the table.

Is this true? Maybe I'm wrong but I've never seen anything to suggest that this is the case. That's not necessarily a bad thing as when in form he makes it work but I'm really not sure what else he offers. No kicking game, weak under the high ball, defends poorly, no special passing game, doesn't look for work, has no footwork and is all around just a lazy player. When in form he's a hell of a ball carrier but I struggle to see what more he brings to the table than that.

 

[mania]

Is this true? Maybe I'm wrong but I've never seen anything to suggest that this is the case.

believe it or not , when concentrating, Julian is awesome under high ball and can be a devastating tackler.

when Julian first turned up in super he dropped every ball passed or kicked to him. twas really embarrassing. in the off season he improved his game and next season didn't drop anything. made attacking high balls a real highlight of his game.
off season after that he came back as a real bone crunching tackler. that season he made the ABs

he has the skills and before this slump he showed off his skills all the time. in the past 2 seasons he hasn't shown any of this and has just tried being a brute to no affect

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

believe it or not , when concentrating, Julian is awesome under high ball and can be a devastating tackler.

when Julian first turned up in super he dropped every ball passed or kicked to him. twas really embarrassing. in the off season he improved his game and next season didn't drop anything. made attacking high balls a real highlight of his game.
off season after that he came back as a real bone crunching tackler. that season he made the ABs

he has the skills and before this slump he showed off his skills all the time. in the past 2 seasons he hasn't shown any of this and has just tried being a brute to no affect

I won't dispute that as a tackler he can be pretty magnificent, that monster hit on Kearney I think in 2012 repeatedly comes to mind, but it's more his work rate and positioning in defence than the tackling itself that concerns me.

 

[mania]

it's more his work rate and positioning in defence than the tackling itself that concerns me.

I don't want to get personal, but your description of 'lazy' fits. julians been a passenger for awhile now

 

[Red Enigma]

Before the game I said "Canes by a mile." then we lost BB and Aso. God help the Brumbies if they are back and our guys can resume playing in their right positions.

With Aso back, how many teams would be faced by the dilemma the "Canes face? All of the choices are absolute match winners: Savea, Jane, Goosen and Nene.

I hope like hell no AB personnel get involved. If Boyd/Plumtree had coached the AB's, Perenara would have played the same minutes Aaron Smith played and we would have comfortably won the series.

 

[Penne Rara]

God help the Brumbies if they are back and our guys can resume playing in their right positions.

As long as Jordie is the one kicking for goal.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Is this true? Maybe I'm wrong but I've never seen anything to suggest that this is the case. That's not necessarily a bad thing as when in form he makes it work but I'm really not sure what else he offers. No kicking game, weak under the high ball, defends poorly, no special passing game, doesn't look for work, has no footwork and is all around just a lazy player. When in form he's a hell of a ball carrier but I struggle to see what more he brings to the table than that.

No it definitely is true. From 2012-2014 Savea showed a wide range of skill-sets week in week out, which is why many at the time were suggesting that he was a better player than Lomu ever was... because he had the skills along with the power. He did have a kicking game, I recall a few tries he scored from chip and chases actually. He had very good hands and distribution skills and was a damn sight better under the high ball than what he is now. He never used to make the same mistakes in defense as he does now, or at least not as frequently. It was no coincidence that he scored so many tries and became one of the 1st names on the ABs team sheet.
What the hell has happened to him since 2015 is an absolute mystery... he has just regressed so much. He is dumber on defense, seems to have lost his skill-set, doesn't seem as dangerous with ball in hand, his work-rate has become non-existent and he just generally seems a fraction of the player he was. Who knows how he could've fallen so drastically, but he has. IMO it has to be mental... even if he isn't the physical force that he once was, it doesn't explain the complete drop off in every other aspect of his game. His self-confidence on the field has definitely been shot, for whatever reason. Julian in his prime was one of the greatest wingers ever, but the way he is now it's very possible that his ABs days could be all but done, and he may not even get that try scoring record that has seemed an absolute inevitability for years...

 

[Car]

I definitely agree. Julian was so amazing back then, but nowadays, it all seems to be gone.

 

[Nubiwan]

its ever since shields got moved to 8. he's not an 8 and his lack of speed and acceleration is really obvious and he struggles with 8's core duties.
fifita was a better fit for ABs cos he's also a lineout option. whilst fifita isnt as hard nosed as shields he's dynamic with good ball skills.

Yes, I thought that. Is he not a flanker? Perhaps a lock. When I saw him at 8 against the Cru, something did not look right to me.

I could see the brumbies upsetting the canes at home, if I am being honest. Thought they did alright against the Chiefs, and were a bit hard done by, by some of the decisions. Not the slaughter I expected, even if the final wasn't close.

That being said, Canes get some players back, and won't have such a makeshift backline. Still.... Perhaps I need to smoke something heavier

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

[/QUOTE]
Yes, I thought that. Is he not a flanker? Perhaps a lock. Why I saw him at 8 against the Cru, something did not look right to me.

I could see the brumbies upsetting the canes at home, if I am being honest. Thought they did alright against the Chiefs, and were a bit hard done by, by some of the decisions. Not the slaughter I expected, even if the final wasn't close.

What's with that NZ commentator and his pan handle for Damian Mac? If he thinks he should own the black 15 jersey, then just come out and say it. It rather got embarassing.[/QUOTE]

Shields is definitely a 6. It's where he's played his whole career, he's only played 8 recently due to the Canes not having a good option there. On that note, would it make sense to simply sway Fifita and Shields? IIRC Fifita played quite a bit of 8 at age grade level and has played there occasionally for Wellington. He's a good ball carrier and has very good ball skills. I don't think he should move there permanently but to me 6. Shields 8. Fifita looks better than 6. Fifita 8. Shields.

 

[Nubiwan]

Shields is definitely a 6. It's where he's played his whole career, he's only played 8 recently due to the Canes not having a good option there. On that note, would it make sense to simply sway Fifita and Shields? IIRC Fifita played quite a bit of 8 at age grade level and has played there occasionally for Wellington. He's a good ball carrier and has very good ball skills. I don't think he should move there permanently but to me 6. Shields 8. Fifita looks better than 6. Fifita 8. Shields.

It's an apparent weakness if he is the standard 8 they use. Different game altogether 6,7 and 8. Need a bit of flare to be an 8 IMHO. Trying to recall who the Canes had there for several years before. I could google it, but that's cheating. Can picture him in my mind, but name escapes me. I confess to watching this league, but I don't get that deep to knowing all the players .....

 

[Nubiwan]

It's an apparent weakness if he is the standard 8 they use. Different game altogether 6,7 and 8. Need a bit of flare to be an 8 IMHO. Trying to recall who the Canes had there for several years before. I could google it, but that's cheating. Can picture him in my mind, but name escapes me. I confess to watching this league, but I don't get that deep to knowing all the players .....

Ok - Googled it. Was it indeed Jerry Collins? Perhaps not always. Shocks to learn he died in a car accident. Terrible! Top player.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Ok - Googled it. Was it indeed Jerry Collins? Perhaps not always. Shocks to learn he died in a car accident. Terrible! Top player.

Collins hadn't been at the Canes since 08, if you're referring to more recent years then I think you mean Victor Vito.

 

[Nubiwan]

Collins hadn't been at the Canes since 08, if you're referring to more recent years then who think you mean Victor Vito.

Yes that's him...... Still sad on Collins.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yes that's him...... Still sad on Collins.

Agreed, a tragic loss to the sport.

 

[Icemn]

Collins hadn't been at the Canes since 08, if you're referring to more recent years then I think you mean Victor Vito.

Rodney So'oialo