[2018 Six Nations] England Squad

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I love the way we say the Curries as if they're 100% interchangeable.

Question I've often wondered is whether Binny would be better deployed as a bench option. Would 30 mins going flat out as a finisher against tiring legs be a better use of squad talents than 50 mins against fresh ones better able to deal with him? Would be a brave decision.

Nah, use Billy to wear down defences then bring on Simmonds' pace against tired legs. I'd have thought that real pace is much more effective against fatigued players rather than a lump that's gonna run right into you (no disrespect to Binny, he's the bets in the world at doing that). Plus there's no real replacement for Binny to start.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Nah, use Billy to wear down defences then bring on Simmonds' pace against tired legs. I'd have thought that real pace is much more effective against fatigued players rather than a lump that's gonna run right into you (no disrespect to Binny, he's the bets in the world at doing that). Plus there's no real replacement for Binny to start.

Simmonds tore the Italians up ONCE they had tired. Sensed he wasn't having quite the same success in the first 50, his gas wasn't catching them out as much when they were fresh.

You could always interchange Simmonds with breakdown specialists at 7 such as Curry spending on who you're playing.

 

[EDT]

Nah, use Billy to wear down defences then bring on Simmonds' pace against tired legs. I'd have thought that real pace is much more effective against fatigued players rather than a lump that's gonna run right into you (no disrespect to Binny, he's the bets in the world at doing that). Plus there's no real replacement for Binny to start.

The proposed Binny finisher option may have the advantage of keeping him able to play for more matches.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

The proposed Binny finisher option may have the advantage of keeping him able to play for more matches.

Sarries sadly won't be using him like that so won't have much affect if England use him as a finisher.

He was fighting it out for best 8 in the world prior to injury, you don't limit the game time of someone with such quality through using him off the bench.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Simmonds tore the Italians up ONCE they had tired. Sensed he wasn't having quite the same success in the first 50, his gas wasn't catching them out as much when they were fresh.

You could always interchange Simmonds with breakdown specialists at 7 such as Curry spending on who you're playing.

Exactly my point; he's much more dangerous against tired legs. Coming off the bench his pace will be even more of a surprise. I'd agree with 6. Underhill 7. Ben Curry 8. Vunipola 20. Simmonds

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Binny is too important/good to bench IMO
You don't limit the game time of one of your best players because he'd do better against tired legs. Any carrier is going to do better as the defences tire but no one has the impact vs fresh defences that Binny does

 

[EDT]

Sarries sadly won't be using him like that so won't have much affect if England use him as a finisher.

He was fighting it out for best 8 in the world prior to injury, you don't limit the game time of someone with such quality through using him off the bench.

Not much use being the best player in to world by 50 if you are injured though is it?

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Simmonds would end up replacing Underhill or Curry in general also, offer that extra option on the carry late on. Binny can draw men, Simmonds dominates the space. Lovely to imagine.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Not much use being the best player in to world by 50 if you are injured though is it?

His injuries haven't all come from being over played though have they? It's a contact sport, you're going to get injured and you're more likely to be injured when recovering than at any other time. He's been hugely unlucky.

 

[EDT]

His injuries haven't all come from being over played though have they? It's a contact sport, you're going to get injured and you're more likely to be injured when recovering than at any other time. He's been hugely unlucky.

Surely the more you play the more chance of being injured?

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Surely the more you play the more chance of being injured?

Obviously, but that doesn't mean you don't play someone.

New Zealand don't bring Beauden Barrett off the bench to make sure he stays fit.

Australia don't with Hooper, nor do Ireland with O'Mahoney.

If you have a player of that quality, you play them.

 

[EDT]

Obviously, but that doesn't mean you don't play someone.

New Zealand don't bring Beauden Barrett off the bench to make sure he stays fit.

Australia don't with Hooper, nor do Ireland with O'Mahoney.

If you have a player of that quality, you play them.

Never heard of resting a player or managing their workload? Plus the opposition will bust themselves trying to get ahead, before the best player in the world comes on. If you varied from say 5minutes in to 60minutes when he came on, they would never know when the impact would come.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Never heard of resting a player or managing their workload? Plus the opposition will bust themselves trying to get ahead, before the best player in the world comes on. If you varied from say 5minutes in to 60minutes when he came on, they would never know when the impact would come.

Yep and that's done through the RFUs agreement with the Prem sides, where EPS players get certain amounts of extra rest weekends. The workload is managed also with key players rested in summer tours etc etc.

You'd never use a sub tactically in the first half unless through injury or someone having a shocker. Waste of a bench spot otherwise. Why not just play your best player from the beginning.

 

[EDT]

Yep and that's done through the RFUs agreement with the Prem sides, where EPS players get certain amounts of extra rest weekends. The workload is managed also with key players rested in summer tours etc etc.

You'd never use a sub tactically in the first half unless through injury or someone having a shocker. Waste of a bench spot otherwise. Why not just play your best player from the beginning.

The key to being a successful rugby coach is the mind games you play with the opposition. Think of the uncertainty. It is this kind of dogmatic approach that has meant the sport has not evolved much for many years.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Either way if Clifford comes back in good form then would people be happy to see him back in the EPS? offers something similiar to Simmonds IMO

 

[EDT]

Either way if Clifford comes back in good form then would people be happy to see him back in the EPS? offers something similiar to Simmonds IMO

Could you have Clifford and Simmonds in the same team?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Could you have Clifford and Simmonds in the same team?

I think you could as although Simmonds is a very flashy player he still gets through a ton of the grit work. I just don't think Clifford is good enough to really be in contention. Unless Simmonds starts at 7 in which case Clifford could be a good bench option.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

The key to being a successful rugby coach is the mind games you play with the opposition. Think of the uncertainty. It is this kind of dogmatic approach that has meant the sport has not evolved much for many years.

The sport has evolved massively. I

I think you could as although Simmonds is a very flashy player he still gets through a ton of the grit work. I just don't think Clifford is good enough to really be in contention. Unless Simmonds starts at 7 in which case Clifford could be a good bench option.

Clifford needs a good season under his belt to get into contention. Arguably similar player to Simmonds but maybe a little less physical. One of them in the 23 enough.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I think you could as although Simmonds is a very flashy player he still gets through a ton of the grit work. I just don't think Clifford is good enough to really be in contention. Unless Simmonds starts at 7 in which case Clifford could be a good bench option.

On his day, Clifford is fantastic. I will always remember him burning scott williams from the halfway line, that was fantastic pace. I couldnt see him in the same team as simmonds to be honest. Unless Billy is injured, if you had them both starting, then Underhill would need to be at blindeside and we lack a jackler again. Or we could do an Italy and play flankers in the second row???

 

[RugbyMarvel]

On his day, Clifford is fantastic. I will always remember him burning scott williams from the halfway line, that was fantastic pace. I couldnt see him in the same team as simmonds to be honest. Unless Billy is injured, if you had them both starting, then Underhill would need to be at blindeside and we lack a jackler again. Or we could do an Italy and play flankers in the second row???

Zanni is a little bigger than Simmonds or Clifford at 6 foot 4 so probably wouldn't work...