• 2016 RBS Six Nations Rugby Table - The Rugby Forum
    Table updated after last fixture of the weekend

[2019 Six Nations] England Squad

MikeTheNative

First XV
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
1,166
Reaction score
327
Country Flag

Wales

Club or Nation

Wales

Farrell is a very good player but his limitations in an attacking sense are very well known when picked at 10. His kicking went really well first two games but after Wales shut that down he struggled, not only in execution but it seemed in ideas as well.
 

Old Hooker

First XV
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
3,341
Reaction score
1,113
Country Flag

England

Just seen on Twitter that Hartley has had another knee surgery that's added 12 weeks to his recovery

I'd be surprised if he plays again in general let alone plays in the world cup.

Need to look at other options at hooker, LCD isn't trusted and, frankly, has never looked up to international level in his cameos
Boyd saying if all goes well he could be back as early as end of March. Feels quick, but he’s closest to the situation.
 

Jashay

Academy Player
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
151
Reaction score
65
Country Flag

England

A few thoughts I've had since the game :

1. Sinckler and Curry are very good players.
2. Moon is a good prop, but not good enough to win 1/4, 1/2, finals at WC, so EJ might have to send in a special request to a certain Mr Marler.
3. I hope big Court's injury doesn't rule him out of the WC. We need all 4 of our top class locks.
4. BV isn't as effective as he used to be (think of the first half against france in that high scoring game in the last round a few years ago where for a long while it seemed to be him against France with him winning). He needs to put the weight back on and be used for 50-60 minutes then replaced.
5. Although he bottled one key pass, I thought Youngs did ok. In particular when he showed the speed of mind to get over the goal line to avoid a scrum 5 wales. Came out of the game pretty even in terms of credit/debit for me.
6. Farrell has had an absolute nightmare under pressure. forward passes, charge downs, kicks out on the full etc. For me this has got to be EJ's main concern after yesterday's game. Suggests that he isn't capable of performing in WC 1/4, 1/2, final, which presents a major problem. Suspect EJ will brush it under the carpet and pretend it didn't happen, in which case we might as well start cheering for the other home nations already.
7. EJ obviously took the approach of backing the guys he'd selected to see the game through. This is all very well and good, but it was blatantly obvious that the whole team was stuck in a kind of paralysed quick sand throughout the 2nd half, and were incapable of turning it round.
8. If England are going to have a chance at the WC, they will need all their big players fit, and will need to find a way of getting momentum back in games after it goes. They are clearly some way off the level we hoped they were after the first 2 rounds.
1. I'd add Wilson to that list. He's not a highlight-reel player, but he's consistently everywhere. There was a stat floating around that he's been first to more breakdowns than any other player in the tournament. Does a lot of the grinding work.

2. I've no issues with Moon. He's not flashy, but he's dependable. I don't think he starts if Mako and Genge are fit, but I don't think Marler offers anything Moon doesn't.

3. Aye, no arguments there.

4. I'm not sure about that. He made more metres than any forward on the pitch yesterday. He made more than all players but Liam Williams and Slade. And most of the time he was running into Navidi and Moriarty, who are the definition of heavy traffic. If he can't make yards, he at least sucks in multiple tacklers.

5. Youngs executed his kicks and passes adequately, but his decision making was atrocious. Bear in mind England have 4 excellent kickers in that team, and frankly I'd probably trust May to make a clearing kick too. In the previous games our exit strategy was a bit more nuanced than 'Youngs box kick'; Youngs would pass it back to Faz or Daly, who would have better angles to take the kicks or shift it wide for a counter. If it was closer to half-way, they'd check if there was space at the back; if so, kick. If not, shift. There was a period at the start of the second half where, for about 10 minutes, England looked really dangerous, and it was pretty much because Youngs didn't kick. We were moving the ball wide, and even though Faz was still doing stupid kicks we looked better. There was a bit where Faz put in a good kick seeing that Liam Williams had been forced to come up and cover; it was almost how England had played in the last games! After 50 mins, though, it was back to kicking.

6-8. Faz had a bad day at the office. It happens. I'm not at all concerned about him choking in high pressure games, but I absolutely would have hooked him and Youngs at 60 when the lead was slipping and kicking was getting us nowhere. Absolutely baffled by the lack of substitutions.

As to the overall plan: Whilst I realise it's easy to be an armchair coach, it seemed that England forgot half of their attack plan. Against Ireland: Step 1) they generated space in the backfield by moving wide really fast, forcing the backs to cover. Step 2) Kick into the backfield

England were woeful at executing step 1, and as such they just kicked the ball to a well-prepared backline. I think the fact that France simply didn't put anyone in the backfield 90% of the time threw it all off; there was no need for step 1. At the end of the France game England were just kicking willy-nilly, and it kinda carried over.
 

Bill

Academy Player
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
166
Reaction score
31
Farrell's decision making was far worse than Youngs' imo.

Decided to kick when it was obvious the kick would be charged down
Decided to pass to Slade when he knew he'd over run it
Decided to boot the ball out of play with the try line beckoning
etc

Also woeful execution.

This was pressure. And he couldn't handle it.
 

Jashay

Academy Player
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
151
Reaction score
65
Country Flag

England

He's won basically everything but a World Cup. He's faced every team worth mentioning. He's played this exact match (Wales at home) how many times now?

I agree that his decision making was not up to scratch, but to say that he's some sort of bottler because of one bad game is just knee-jerk
 

higgik

Academy Player
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
304
Reaction score
56
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Saracens

Farrell's decision making was far worse than Youngs' imo.

Decided to kick when it was obvious the kick would be charged down
Decided to pass to Slade when he knew he'd over run it
Decided to boot the ball out of play with the try line beckoning
etc

Also woeful execution.

This was pressure. And he couldn't handle it.
The Slade overrun just looked like a misunderstood planned move. Slade had been used as crash ball a couple of times before and this time, the plan looked like a decoy from Slade, hoping to leave Manu 1 on 1 close to the line.
 

g6mcg

Academy Player
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
425
Reaction score
47
Country Flag

Scotland

Club or Nation

Doncaster

Meaning it was a terrible call from Farrell?
 

Bill

Academy Player
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
166
Reaction score
31
If it was a decoy, why did he pass it to him ?? (especially when he was in front of him)
 

Old Hooker

First XV
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
3,341
Reaction score
1,113
Country Flag

England

Just seen on Twitter that Hartley has had another knee surgery that's added 12 weeks to his recovery

I'd be surprised if he plays again in general let alone plays in the world cup.

Need to look at other options at hooker, LCD isn't trusted and, frankly, has never looked up to international level in his cameos
Boyd saying if all goes well he could be back as early as end of March. Feels quick, but he’s closest to the situation.
1. I'd add Wilson to that list. He's not a highlight-reel player, but he's consistently everywhere. There was a stat floating around that he's been first to more breakdowns than any other player in the tournament. Does a lot of the grinding work.

2. I've no issues with Moon. He's not flashy, but he's dependable. I don't think he starts if Mako and Genge are fit, but I don't think Marler offers anything Moon doesn't.

3. Aye, no arguments there.

4. I'm not sure about that. He made more metres than any forward on the pitch yesterday. He made more than all players but Liam Williams and Slade. And most of the time he was running into Navidi and Moriarty, who are the definition of heavy traffic. If he can't make yards, he at least sucks in multiple tacklers.

5. Youngs executed his kicks and passes adequately, but his decision making was atrocious. Bear in mind England have 4 excellent kickers in that team, and frankly I'd probably trust May to make a clearing kick too. In the previous games our exit strategy was a bit more nuanced than 'Youngs box kick'; Youngs would pass it back to Faz or Daly, who would have better angles to take the kicks or shift it wide for a counter. If it was closer to half-way, they'd check if there was space at the back; if so, kick. If not, shift. There was a period at the start of the second half where, for about 10 minutes, England looked really dangerous, and it was pretty much because Youngs didn't kick. We were moving the ball wide, and even though Faz was still doing stupid kicks we looked better. There was a bit where Faz put in a good kick seeing that Liam Williams had been forced to come up and cover; it was almost how England had played in the last games! After 50 mins, though, it was back to kicking.

6-8. Faz had a bad day at the office. It happens. I'm not at all concerned about him choking in high pressure games, but I absolutely would have hooked him and Youngs at 60 when the lead was slipping and kicking was getting us nowhere. Absolutely baffled by the lack of substitutions.

As to the overall plan: Whilst I realise it's easy to be an armchair coach, it seemed that England forgot half of their attack plan. Against Ireland: Step 1) they generated space in the backfield by moving wide really fast, forcing the backs to cover. Step 2) Kick into the backfield

England were woeful at executing step 1, and as such they just kicked the ball to a well-prepared backline. I think the fact that France simply didn't put anyone in the backfield 90% of the time threw it all off; there was no need for step 1. At the end of the France game England were just kicking willy-nilly, and it kinda carried over.
Agree with most of that.

Wilson’s done well, although fairly quiet yesterday. I think Underhill might have enjoyed that a lot, but moot point as he’s injured.

Moon’s nowhere near Marler’s calibre. Despite Mako’s pre injury form, I’d still say that Marler is our best all round LH, plus he brings 60 caps worth of experience. Moon’s been a decent stand in, but he’s not top drawer. Marler’s unavailable though and I doubt Jones would go begging except for an injury crisis.

Binny is a conundrum. Some strong carries, but he’s not busting games apart the way he used to. Probably a combination of not being 100% fit and teams working him out, which isn’t really that difficult. While Billy’s great in full flight, I’d still prefer to see a smarter Faletau type.

Agree that Faz had a crap day at the office, but he’s got plenty of credit in the bank.
 

g6mcg

Academy Player
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
425
Reaction score
47
Country Flag

Scotland

Club or Nation

Doncaster

Might have credit in the bank, but with a quality fly half on the bench it was bizarre to keep him at 10.
 

FLOBALOB

Academy Player
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
317
Reaction score
63
Country Flag

Antilles

Club or Nation

Cornish Priates

Yes.

Throwing is the only area I see his competitors being better than him.

Taylor's great.
This is in fact wrong , a fallacy that seems to be repeated so often everbody assumes it to be true.

FACTS, for years 16, 17 &18 in premiership;
LO LW LL %
JAMIE GEORGE 437 415 22 95
LCD 328 299 29 91.2
DYLAN HARTLEY 258 228 30 88.4
TOMMY TAYLOR 167 147 20 88
TOM YOUNGS 381 325 56 85.3
JACK SINGLETON 283 238 45 84.1

So, only JG is a better LO thrower than LCD
 

TBeastT

First XV
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
4,250
Reaction score
1,187
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Exeter

This is in fact wrong , a fallacy that seems to be repeated so often everbody assumes it to be true.

FACTS, for years 16, 17 &18 in premiership;
LO LW LL %
JAMIE GEORGE 437 415 22 95
LCD 328 299 29 91.2
DYLAN HARTLEY 258 228 30 88.4
TOMMY TAYLOR 167 147 20 88
TOM YOUNGS 381 325 56 85.3
JACK SINGLETON 283 238 45 84.1

So, only JG is a better LO thrower than LCD
LCD has a tendency to crumble under the pressure a bit at international level though.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,000,773
Reaction score
6,163
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

Rory Best is good for Ulster but I wouldn't trust him to chuck me my car keys.

LCD has been poor at the lineout for England, that's undeniable
 

FLOBALOB

Academy Player
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
317
Reaction score
63
Country Flag

Antilles

Club or Nation

Cornish Priates

LCD has a tendency to crumble under the pressure a bit at international level though.
I've seen Singleton crumble under pressure at premiership level this season, so god knows what he'd be like at International level.
TBF to LCD his throwing in internationals is too small a sample size to use it as a bat to hit him with especially when its only bettered by JG in Premiership. He should be starting v Italy.
 

ratsapprentice

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
12,105
Reaction score
793
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

England

I've seen Singleton crumble under pressure at premiership level this season, so god knows what he'd be like at International level.
TBF to LCD his throwing in internationals is too small a sample size to use it as a bat to hit him with especially when its only bettered by JG in Premiership. He should be starting v Italy.
I don't disagree.
 

Old Hooker

First XV
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
3,341
Reaction score
1,113
Country Flag

England

Might have credit in the bank, but with a quality fly half on the bench it was bizarre to keep him at 10.
Agreed.

Ref LCD. At this stage in the RWC cycle we should know whether our 3rd hooker is up to it in the same way we should know about our 3rd SH. 5 minutes here or there proves nothing. And nor really will playing against Italy or warm up matches.

I hope yesterday’s non use of the bench was just a Jones brain fart. But try telling Genge, LCD, Ford and Robson that it was anything but a very public lack of trust in them.
 

ragerancher

International
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
5,329
Reaction score
1,578
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

I'll just point out that Farrell largely bottled it in Cardiff. The previous 2 visits we had Ford at 10. The last time England bottled it at Cardiff? Farrell at 10. The 2 world cup games where we bottled it? Farrell at 10. Every game where England are put under pressure with Farrell at 10, he goes to pieces. He plays well in the armchair ride at Sarries but he simply is not as good as people like to make out when the pressure is really on, his decision making goes to pot and he doesn't trust the players outside him enough.
 

Reiser99

First XV
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
2,658
Reaction score
827
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Leicester

Not much I can add to this discussion...attack was far more predictable than in the previous two games and we kicked too quickly instead of using Manu. I felt that it was Farrell's fault more than Youngs. We then gave away silly penalties when under pressure and didn't play for territory to give ourselves opportunities. This combined with poor kicking from Farrell. Finally I agree, what's the point of having subs if you don't use them. Genge especially should have come on earlier from the way EJ was hyping him up as a finisher. It's almost like EJ was so focused on the game he forgot he had subs he could bring on.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,000,773
Reaction score
6,163
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

On the one hand I'm glad it's nothing worse, cause I thought he'd broken his ankle, on the other that really does suck.
Luckily we've got plenty of depth at 2nd row - especially as Itoje is supposedly fit again
 
Top