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[2019 Six Nations] England Squad

Discussion in '2019 Guinness Six Nations' started by TRF_Olyy, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

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    Manu's attitude and behaviour has been far worse than Cipriani's imo. Assaulting a female copper ? arrested whilst on tour with england ?

    and when was the last time a word was heard in selection debates about Tuilagi's behaviour ?

    Cips has been quoted in the media because the media talk about him all the time. It's a viscious circle : press talk about his unjustified non-selection, coach gets the hump and doesnt select him, press talks about it....

    The one with the bad behaviour here is EJ, flat out lieing about him being dropped based on form days before he was awarded player of the month. It's a joke.

    For me Cips' attitude has been incredible. Barerly been selected in a decade and just carries on trying to win his place back, with hardly a word of complaint. The comparison to Manu whose behaviour has been appalling, and who gets selected whenever fit without question is completely inappropriate imo.
     
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  3. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler Senior Member

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    Genge, George, Sinkler
    Itoje, Kruis
    Wilson, Vunipola, Curry

    Robson Youngs, Ford
    Tuilagi, Joseph
    May, Daly, Cokanasiga

    Moon, LCD, Cole, Launchbury, Mercer
    YoungsSpencer, Farrell, Nowell

    Quite honestly, my "everyone fit" team* only brings Mako and Watson in to start from that, with Genge and Daly moving to the bench, and maybe Hartley joining them there (I'd also love Slade to be a genuine option at 12, to allow horses-for-courses selection any 2 from Slade, Manu, JJ).


    * Were everyone fit right now. For a RWC knock-out match; Daly absolutely starts, and Nowell benches, with Coka dropping right out of the 22. For now, Coka gets as much game-time as he can, in the hopes that after 10 caps and a pre-RWC camp, he's adapted, and his defence has comes along for the ride.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  4. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Like have you forgotten cips in Jersey? Mr Golden wrists assaulting a police officer this year.
    or what about Cips getting arrested a few years ago for drink driving?

    Right choir boy isn't he, he's 30 now he should be one of the senior leaders.
    As Eddie says he thinks Cips can't be a bench player and he doesn't think he is ahead of Farrell (Rightly or wrongly).

    Manu has his vices as I said, not all driven mainly by ego. He's worked hard on it, and outside one night of getting some drinks with Denny (I blame sale) has kept his head down and worked hard off the field to sort those issues out.

    The tour incident is nearly 8 years ago, cips 8 years ago was kicked out by the Rebels for his behaviour.

    During Eddie Jones time in charge.
    Cips
    Drink Driving charge
    Assulting police officer charge

    Manu
    Had some drinks with Denny during a england training camp.
     
  5. noah_jo

    noah_jo Senior Member

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    Tuilagi staying, so yay basically. England crisis averted
     
  6. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker Senior Member

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    TBH I suspect the off field stuff is maybe 20% of the reason Cips gets overlooked.

    If Jones thought he’d add to the squad he’d pick him. I suspect his main concern is over Cips commitment to the physical stuff. Defence remains flaky and he’s still prone to flipping on bad ball and putting a team mate in trouble rather than taking the hit. Neither scream team player; while smaller, you can’t ever question Ford’s commitment.
     
  7. curtbob7

    curtbob7 Senior Member

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    *Just scanning the forum for anyone questioning Lord Cole's rightful inclusion over Williams*

    Yep, all good. Carry on.
     
  8. MikeTheNative

    MikeTheNative Senior Member

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    I'm sure the guy in charge of doing the penalty count will be expecting a busy evening now.
     
  9. scotty507

    scotty507 Senior Member

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    As long as he's not starting alls good .
     
  10. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Apparently Robson might be done for the year,
    Got blood clots in his legs
     
  11. Jashay

    Jashay Member

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    Jesus, that sounds serious. Hope he's all right
     
  12. BPM

    BPM Senior Member

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    Yikes - that sounds horrible. Hope he’s OK.
     
  13. Reiser99

    Reiser99 Senior Member

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    Talk about shitty luck, finally getting a chance to show what you can do after being shat on for ages and then this.
     
  14. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker Senior Member

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    Jeez, when will he get a break? All the best to him.
     
  15. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    So a comfortable BP win in Dublin and a 76pt draw against Scotland - just as we all predicted.


    Weird old tournament,
    Biggest positive, for me, is the backrow - genuinely world class.
    Manu surviving a full international series, and also forming a pretty damn decent partnership with Slade, was good to see.
    May in excellent form.

    Individual performance wise there are a lot of positives to take. Team wise? Plenty of questions, plenty of concerns.
     
  16. Reiser99

    Reiser99 Senior Member

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    I feel like doing a more in depth post later, but my issue is more with coaching and selection than players. I feel like the current team is there because EJ had limited options and they have proved him wrong, yet he keeps trying to go back to blueprint. Today's game showed that Farrell should not lead in a WC as he doesn't have the experience when things go wrong. EJ should have used subs earlier and trusted them. It's almost like there is a split in the camp between those who are taking their opportunity and those who know they have a place no matter what and a few caught in the middle.
     
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  17. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    It's weird saying it, but I really hope Hartley can make a full recovery and come back to lead us into the WC.

    I think George has a higher ceiling than Hartley, however he is yet to translate his club form to the international level (been playing way better this 6N but still not as good as he can be) - however Hartley is quite comfortably the best captain we have available and the side plays better with him there.
     
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  18. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

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    2 games in a row Farrell's shown that he freezes under pressure and can't adapt his game when needed. For me it's proof enough that he is not capable of winning world cup knock out games. EJ should ditch him now but obviously won't. It will be his biggest mistake.
     
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  19. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler Senior Member

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    Biggest positives for me is the arrival of Slade as an international player - we already knew that Curry and Wilson could do it at this level, but their partnership with Billy has also been a joy to watch.
    Genge and Sinkler showing that they're up to starting internationals is also a very good thing.


    On the less-good side of the coin is Eddie's tactical intransigence, and his selection based on that.
    For example, Farrell (sorry) was great against Ireland, and good against France; but he's still too rugby-by-numbers for me (and those 2 teams played straight into our hands from the off). He's great at following the play book, but as Wales, Italy and Scotland showed - he's still poor at adapting to what's going on around him. He's very good at "follow me into the breach" leadership, but equally poor at tactical leadership. He's also improved out of sight in talking to the ref - mostly by avoiding doing so.

    We really need a scrum half. Barring the odd 1-2 matches a year, Youngs is not up to being a first choice starter. Like Faz though, he's untouchable, and no-one else is allowed a chance to show what they could do. Equally, we've got Te'o Hughes and Shields as Eddie's favourites, though thankfully he seems to have given up on starting them, they're just further examples that Eddie has decided England can't play heads up rugby, and therefore aren't allowed to try.

    In summary
    Front row: Largely positive, but boy do we miss Hartley's leadership (now there's a sentence I never thought I'd type 4 years ago)
    Second row: 4 brilliant options, some promise behind them, but as yet unfulfilled.
    Back row: Has become a real strength this year (including bench when all fit), but the depth just hasn't shown anything at international level, whilst those better club form don't get a chance.

    Halfbacks: Our decision makers, tempo-setters, tactical generals and skipper - comfortably the weakest aspect of our team, but completely untouchable. Are they tactically inept? Or are those the orders from on high?
    Centres: You can't pick a bad pairing from Manu, JJ and Slade unfortunately all are better at OC than IC, and unfortunately, Eddie will always find a way to fit Te'o in.
    Back 3: Several brilliant options on the wing, but Daly still not a FB. If Brown is never coming back in then we need to pray that Watson comes back confident and firing. Surprised Woodward hasn't been given a shot, good form, and a SH accent!

    Coaching: As ever, there are some good signs; but real problems with selection, favouritism and stubbornness.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  20. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker Senior Member

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    So after the tournament where do we stand?

    V good against Ire and Ita. V good 1st halves vs Fra, Wal and Sco. Less said about those 2nd halves the better. Mental thing, better starters than finishers or fitness? Probably a combination of all 3.

    1. Mako was missed. Genge had some moments; he and Moon are OK understudies, but wish Marler was available.
    2. George did some good stuff and yet there’s something missing. Maybe he’s just not nasty enough. Jury still out on LCD. Wouldn’t be upset to see Hartley have the shirt and armband for the RWC.
    3. Sinckler clearly the first choice. But if Cole’s in the 23 he must start with Sincks coming off the bench early to be on the pitch when it counts. Indifferent to Williams
    4 / 5. Good tournament from Kruis. Launch is now clear 4th choice. Lock needed on bench.
    6. Wilson went well although faded a bit. Big shame we didn’t get the chance to see Underhill, him and Curry are the future.
    7. Curry had an excellent tournament. For all the hype he isn’t Back or McCaw just yet, but he might well get there.
    8. Disappointed by Binny TBH. Worked hard but his USP is the extraordinary and he didn’t really do too much out of the ordinary, especially when it counted. By now he should be one of the leaders of this team and he just isn’t. Another who could use a dose of nastiness. Hughes and Shields as back row understudies do little for me. Would have been nice to see Morgan or Mercer involved.
    9. Youngs. The usual mixed bag. When he’s good he’s very good.....Feel for Robson.
    10. Faz. Another mixed bag. Taking the captaincy away would allow him to concentrate on his game. For all the criticism, some justified, the points for column says he can’t be all bad.
    11. May. Couple of poor defensive lapses but well in credit. Scores tries for fun and looks good under the high ball.
    12. Manu. Looks better at 13, but did a good job at 12 allowing Slade to play well off him. Not wholly convinced by defensive positioning and work rate, but good to have him back.
    13. Slade can look back on the tournament with pride. Really came of age. He and Manu look the best centre partnership we’ve had for a while, but who knows how Jones will be thinking come Japan. Te’o and JJ will complicate things and Ford / Faz is always an option.
    14. Good one for Joe to miss yesterday. He must be ahead of Nowell in the pecking order. If Watson’s anything like when he comes back, I’d expect him to start, just not sure in which shirt.
    15. Daly. World beater in open play, but still doesn’t look a natural in the position. Maybe Watson will nick the shirt. I’d definitely have Brown on the plane.

    On our day, can we beat anyone? Yes. Can we do it consistently? No.

    At least we were more entertaining to watch than Wales. Winning is soooo overrated.
     
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  21. Jashay

    Jashay Member

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    For me, I feel like every part of the England team had a huge amount of positives, with the exception of the half-backs and No8. Mako, George, Sinks made a hell of a front row. All our locks played brilliantly. We actually have a back row worthy of the name. Billy seemed to have regressed to a Hughes-esque level, though; perhaps Eddie's trying to make him worse so that he can genuinely say that Hughes is just as good... A terrifying prospect.

    Manu bursts back into the scene, Slade has been a revalation, pretty much every winger we've played has looked great, and Daly is starting to look like a decent counterattacking 15, even if he's still not a very good defensive one.

    But what the hell is up with the half-backs? They've seemed so robotic, just going through the same motions regardless of the circumstances. People keep saying we take our foot off the gas, but I think it's more that our opponents adapt, and Youngs and Faz don't.

    In the Scotland game, you can see the shift in the game after Spencer and especially Ford come on. Scotland had moved to a blitz defence, looking to cut passes and keep England pinned back; Faz and Youngs reacted incredibly poorly to that, trying to force the passes that weren't on. They kicked a lot, often without a meaningful chase, which gave Russell plenty of time to put some brilliant kicks in behind.

    Ford and Spencer did precisely zero kicks from hand, and they both held on to the ball and attacked the line. When Scotland rushed up, Ford and Spencer took it into contact, or looked for the short/inside pass. Made an enormous difference.

    But whilst that's a significant tactical shift, it's not exactly a complicated one, is it? I don't get why Youngs and Faz couldn't execute that themselves; Faz knows about running the ball from all his time at 12, and Youngs is supposedly famed for pulling off sneaky runs. Didn't see any of that this championship, though.

    I'm using the Scotland game as the example here, but the overall story should be familiar from every single game except the Ireland one. Faz and Youngs are meant to be running the game, so they need to actually be adapting to it.

    I'm also super miffed that we didn't get to see Ford-Farrell-Manu, and only got to see Ford-Manu-Slade for 5 minutes.
     
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