A great big Munster thread

[munstermuffin]

Terrible call. The man is a clown - aptly showed when he "captained" Ireland against Canada.

If the referee was anyone but Leighton Hodges, Ruck Inspector in Chief with Portfolio of being a Faux Hardman would have got the line.


Coughlan would have been a better bet. It'd at least give the kid a year or two to grow up. Or for someone else more mature in personality to emerge.

Well guess you in huge minority and well he's proven himself as a good captain this far and well Coughlan isn't a captain like player so that would've been awful call

 

[Amiga500]

Well guess you in huge minority and well he's proven himself as a good captain this far

Has he?

The one time I saw him as captain against Canada, he was a complete liability and for errors which he consistently makes.

 

[munstermuffin]

Well you obviously don't watch much rugby as he captained both games this summer but also alot of games for Munster but I've learnt not to argue with you and as I said majority like 95%+ (well 100%) who I've spoken to or read think it great call and I do too as do nearly all Munster fans but if you disagree then as an Ulster fan you should be happy it poor call for Munster

 

[Feicarsinn]

Well guess you in huge minority and well he's proven himself as a good captain this far and well Coughlan isn't a captain like player so that would've been awful call

I wouldn't say he's in a huge majority by any means. While O'Mahony has proven himself a useful player, he still has an awful lot of doubters outside of Munster. Two main charges are leveled at him; a lack of genuine international physicality for a blindside flanker and a short temper which has gotten him into trouble before. Both are valid points. The truth is that until he puts in some serious performances in a green jersey those doubts will always be in the back of the minds of many neutrals, myself included.

Is he a good fit for Munster captain? Perhaps. He commands a lot of respect within the Munster camp and is the most prominent of the new generation of forwards they're trying to bring though. He also may be available for some of the November Internationals and Six Nations as he's unlikely to start barring injury.

I'd like to see the captaincy have a maturing effect on him. We'll wait and see.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

O'Mahony is clearly highly rated having captained teams at every level he has played but his temperament is a legitimate concern. Too often he gets involved in needless petty squabbles on the field. Perhaps captaincy for a prolonged period of time will curb this. Time will tell.

 

[psychic duck]

O'Mahony is clearly highly rated having captained teams at every level he has played but his temperament is a legitimate concern. Too often he gets involved in needless petty squabbles on the field. Perhaps captaincy for a prolonged period of time will curb this. Time will tell.

Doubts arise every time a slightly temperamental player is appointed, but Martin Johnson is seen as one of the most legendary and successful leaders ever in rugby and captained a successful Lions tour and RWC whilst having a disciplinary record that is Bakkies-esque, O'Connell has lost his head at times in the past too to an extent. Do you have to be a calm polite Warburton type as captain?

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads can I just state no one is saying POM is a complete player and look I will be first to say any fight on a field usually sees POM and Donnacha Ryan first in. But I like that they will fight for their team it's also good to get him in with Paulie to help learn. Also he's had previous experience and regardless of all our views he has international experience and in some eyes is international class but it is good and adds freshness in a way. Can I add too just as point POM has never been penalised for fighting/rough play from my knowledge

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Do you have to be a calm polite Warburton type as captain?

Good point and no, not at all. It's imperative that your interactions with the referee are good. O'Mahony seems to moan too much. If I may use Leo Cullen as an example, if I'm extremely generous, he's an okay player who lives on the edge of the laws. What he excels at is getting his way with referees through mature handling of situations. Can O'Mahony mature into the same role?

 

[munstermuffin]

Good point and no, not at all. It's imperative that your interactions with the referee are good. O'Mahony seems to moan too much. If I may use Leo Cullen as an example, if I'm extremely generous, he's an okay player who lives on the edge of the laws. What he excels at is getting his way with referees through mature handling of situations. Can O'Mahony mature into the same role?

As in that fair point and well maybe he needs to mature a bit but that where POC will be helpful. Also I wouldn't take too much fight out of him as that's what helps make him but I think people don't really understand that he has excellent captaincy attributes that have stood out in any team he was with.

 

[Amiga500]

What fight in him? Picking on a scrum-half isn't tough. Neither is merely pushing a guy around - either man up and punch him or don't bother. I don't think I've ever seen POM level someone (legitimately or illegally) in the way SOB or Ferris would - two genuinely hard men.

When Ireland needed their forwards to do the heavy work in the 6N just past, the backrow frequently found themselves a man down with POM slumping around out in the 13.5 channel.


Has no-one noticed the change in Heaslip and SOB's game when they were playing for the Lions as compared to playing for Ireland? Helps when they don't have to carry another backrower... even worse, Tom Croft was one of those that enabled the improved form.


I don't rate the guy; he might become good - indeed, I hope he does become good. But his decent hands and lineout jumping do not offset the other glaring inadequacies in his game at the moment. Iain Henderson would have done a much better job than POM for Ireland this season past can do everything that POM can do, but can run the hard yards and clear the rucks so much better.

 

[Peat]

Doubts arise every time a slightly temperamental player is appointed, but Martin Johnson is seen as one of the most legendary and successful leaders ever in rugby and captained a successful Lions tour and RWC whilst having a disciplinary record that is Bakkies-esque, O'Connell has lost his head at times in the past too to an extent. Do you have to be a calm polite Warburton type as captain?

The world has changed since Jonno's day, can't go around doing that now... which in fairness, is why POM does the handbags, like everyone else, instead of levelling them. You can be a great leader and a thug. Whether you can have that ability to sweet talk refs, that's a different matter.

Tbh, I don't see anyone else in that Munster team who's pushing for the job hard if POC doesn't want it. No harm giving it to him and seeing what happens. Actually, maybe give it to Donnacha Ryan?

 

[munstermuffin]

What fight in him? Picking on a scrum-half isn't tough. Neither is merely pushing a guy around - either man up and punch him or don't bother. I don't think I've ever seen POM level someone (legitimately or illegally) in the way SOB or Ferris would - two genuinely hard men.

When Ireland needed their forwards to do the heavy work in the 6N just past, the backrow frequently found themselves a man down with POM slumping around out in the 13.5 channel.


Has no-one noticed the change in Heaslip and SOB's game when they were playing for the Lions as compared to playing for Ireland? Helps when they don't have to carry another backrower... even worse, Tom Croft was one of those that enabled the improved form.


I don't rate the guy; he might become good - indeed, I hope he does become good. But his decent hands and lineout jumping do not offset the other glaring inadequacies in his game at the moment. Iain Henderson would have done a much better job than POM for Ireland this season past can do everything that POM can do, but can run the hard yards and clear the rucks so much better.

Again this has avsolutely 0 to do with Ireland and well I don't think you saw Heaslip and SOB play together in a test except for brief period when loosing so that unfair comment. But again as Ulster fan I don't expect you've watched Munster much as it rare POM is fighting with a scrum half but mostly with opposition pack but if you don't rate him and think he poor choice then as an opposition fan you should be delighted with the choice as it weakens team yea. And just because he's named Munster captain doesn't mean anything regards Ireland so don't understand why you keep returning to that. Cullen is Leinster captain and captaincy never did squat for his Irish prospects. And if you rate Henderson higher fair enough but what's that to do with POM being Munster coach.

 

[munstermuffin]

The world has changed since Jonno's day, can't go around doing that now... which in fairness, is why POM does the handbags, like everyone else, instead of levelling them. You can be a great leader and a thug. Whether you can have that ability to sweet talk refs, that's a different matter.

Tbh, I don't see anyone else in that Munster team who's pushing for the job hard if POC doesn't want it. No harm giving it to him and seeing what happens. Actually, maybe give it to Donnacha Ryan?

As I said there some guys who aren't captain material. Ryan is like Coughlan super players who do their job well but a captain needs to be a good talker in dressing room amongst other things. Ryan isn't like that and after Paulie ruled himself out POM was obvious choice with Mick Sherry probably next possibility but well he's bit wild off the field

 

[big ginger 8]

As I said there some guys who aren't captain material. Ryan is like Coughlan super players who do their job well but a captain needs to be a good talker in dressing room amongst other things. Ryan isn't like that and after Paulie ruled himself out POM was obvious choice with Mick Sherry probably next possibility but well he's bit wild off the field

I disagree that the captain has to be a great talker though I can see for the type of team the Munster are that they'd want one who is.

However as far as I understand someone like Dusautoir is not a good talker and he leaves that to others but it's his work rate and bloody mindedness that inspires others. I've played with a captain where quite frankly his speeches were ****, they were always about intensity but his level of performance was so good that everyone wanted to do there best to try and match him.

Sorry just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

 

[munstermuffin]

I disagree that the captain has to be a great talker though I can see for the type of team the Munster are that they'd want one who is.

However as far as I understand someone like Dusautoir is not a good talker and he leaves that to others but it's his work rate and bloody mindedness that inspires others. I've played with a captain where quite frankly his speeches were ****, they were always about intensity but his level of performance was so good that everyone wanted to do there best to try and match him.

Sorry just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

I understand fully what you mean but just meant some guys like Coughlan would rather just be left to their own game like he's a guy that just does his job and gets on. Like while I agree a captain doesn't always have to be a talker etc in Munster it is needed at the moment. Teams like Leinster could get away with it because you've plenty others there that will share it out but at moment we don't have them personalities.

 

[profitius]

What fight in him? Picking on a scrum-half isn't tough. Neither is merely pushing a guy around - either man up and punch him or don't bother. I don't think I've ever seen POM level someone (legitimately or illegally) in the way SOB or Ferris would - two genuinely hard men.

When Ireland needed their forwards to do the heavy work in the 6N just past, the backrow frequently found themselves a man down with POM slumping around out in the 13.5 channel.


Has no-one noticed the change in Heaslip and SOB's game when they were playing for the Lions as compared to playing for Ireland? Helps when they don't have to carry another backrower... even worse, Tom Croft was one of those that enabled the improved form.


I don't rate the guy; he might become good - indeed, I hope he does become good. But his decent hands and lineout jumping do not offset the other glaring inadequacies in his game at the moment. Iain Henderson would have done a much better job than POM for Ireland this season past can do everything that POM can do, but can run the hard yards and clear the rucks so much better.

Just a few point to respond to this and other posts.

1) He was getting stuck into the South Africans last autumn so not just scrumhalfs as you're making it out to be.
2) You're saying he can't control himself and then you say he has to punch someone to be a hard man. You can't have it both ways. POM is clever and rarely gets booked. Punching these days also means a red card.
3) POM was playing for Ireland where he was told to play. Go back and look at the French game for example.
4) POM completely outplayed Henderson (and everyone else) in the last 2 matches Ireland played. In one game POM carried over 50m while Henderson carried 2m.
5) Theres a section of Irish fans who are very Anti POM and have been from day one. He isn't a nice guy, get over it. Do we want nice guys or winners? The problem with Ireland has been too many nice guys over the years.

 

[munstermuffin]

Again can I just say as a stat Peter O'Mahony has never been penalised, carded or banned for rough play so it does show while yes he is in scraps he's extremely smart about it

 

[MunsterMan]

Great pleasure taken from a hard-fought away win with all our points coming from the boot of our number 10 commiserations, Dragons. Pity it wasn't televised!

 

[Groundhog]

Any idea on how Van Den Heever did?

 

[MunsterMan]

Nope, heard he wen't off injured though. Not quite the start he had in mind i would imagine.