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A Political Thread pt. 2

Gather App
I’m just over halfway through an excellent lecture from Haviv Rettig Gur that he’s giving to students about a year or so ago. I would post it if it wasn’t almost 2 hours long and thought anyone on here would listen to even 10 mins of it but the general premise is to understand the Palestinian story, why they understand the Jews to be colonists,imperialists,racists (any ists really) but also how many Jews don’t even know their own story and it goes into why both sides do the same thing. The main bulk of it is mid 19tj century to post WW1 and then obviously focussing on the build up to 48 which is where I’m at about now.

He’s a journalist and not a professional historian but he is clearly well read and knowledgeable (and has a degree in history I believe) and as he’s lecturing students he’s not going super academic which is useful for dummies like me. He even says this is a 7th grade version if you want a higher level you need to read some books. Good line.
 
Welsh Exile said:
I’m just over halfway through an excellent lecture from Haviv Rettig Gur that he’s giving to students about a year or so ago. I would post it if it wasn’t almost 2 hours long and thought anyone on here would listen to even 10 mins of it but the general premise is to understand the Palestinian story, why they understand the Jews to be colonists,imperialists,racists (any ists really) but also how many Jews don’t even know their own story and it goes into why both sides do the same thing. The main bulk of it is mid 19tj century to post WW1 and then obviously focussing on the build up to 48 which is where I’m at about now.

He’s a journalist and not a professional historian but he is clearly well read and knowledgeable (and has a degree in history I believe) and as he’s lecturing students he’s not going super academic which is useful for dummies like me. He even says this is a 7th grade version if you want a higher level you need to read some books. Good line.
Click to expand...

Where can i find this mate, I have a 15km hike and looking for something to listen to
 
Welsh Exile said:
I hope you enjoy it. He’s not got a boring professor voice so should keep you engaged. He engages his students excellently as well.
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Outnifninterest, whatsntournioinion on the recent peace talks?

I'm flabbergasted by Hamas demands, offering 10 live and 18 dead bodies for 50 Palestinian releases (although that number changes per outlet, it could be any number).

Total withdrawal of Isreal, releasing control on the borders, and ending the war guarantee. It's basically a fingers up to peace!

I would like to see the US Hamas negotiation details from previous though, see what the US had agreed to before going to Isreal
 
dirty harry said:
Outnifninterest, whatsntournioinion on the recent peace talks?

I'm flabbergasted by Hamas demands, offering 10 live and 18 dead bodies for 50 Palestinian releases (although that number changes per outlet, it could be any number).

Total withdrawal of Isreal, releasing control on the borders, and ending the war guarantee. It's basically a fingers up to peace!

I would like to see the US Hamas negotiation details from previous though, see what the US had agreed to before going to Isreal
Click to expand...
I just think it's all pointless with the current lot to be honest. You can't negotiate with Hamas and you can't have Hamas having any control over anything really, but then Netenyahu's interests clearly lie in dragging this out for as long as he can to save himself from jail and so they can use it as an excuse to take more of the West Bank so all in all it's a totally ****** situation as it has been for many decades and will continue to be for many more.
 
Welsh Exile said:
I just think it's all pointless with the current lot to be honest. You can't negotiate with Hamas and you can't have Hamas having any control over anything really, but then Netenyahu's interests clearly lie in dragging this out for as long as he can to save himself from jail and so they can use it as an excuse to take more of the West Bank so all in all it's a totally ****** situation as it has been for many decades and will continue to be for many more.
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I can't agree more. Do you think, given more time, the IDF can eradicate Hamas?

Even if they did, what would they replace it with? Another international state funded organisation who wants to destroy isreal and rid the world of Jews?!?!

At what point does Palestine become the responsibility of another country? As it was previously, or how does it gain sovereignty over itself without any threat to Isreals safety?
 
I'm about 15 mins in, and he's said something super pertinent.

'If you dont understand why your opposition isn't stupid, you havnt done your homework'

He also makes a very valid point regarding Palestinian ideas of Jews, that surprisingly I make about today's Islamic immigrants to the UK. It isn't an idealogical invasion, it is a number of people with similar ideals fleeing from poor and ideologically bad countries for better lives.
 
dirty harry said:
I'm about 15 mins in, and he's said something super pertinent.

'If you dont understand why your opposition isn't stupid, you havnt done your homework'

He also makes a very valid point regarding Palestinian ideas of Jews, that surprisingly I make about today's Islamic immigrants to the UK. It isn't an idealogical invasion, it is a number of people with similar ideals fleeing from poor and ideologically bad countries for better lives.
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It’s a great line and sets the tone well for his lecture.
 
dirty harry said:
I can't agree more. Do you think, given more time, the IDF can eradicate Hamas?

Even if they did, what would they replace it with? Another international state funded organisation who wants to destroy isreal and rid the world of Jews?!?!

At what point does Palestine become the responsibility of another country? As it was previously, or how does it gain sovereignty over itself without any threat to Isreals safety?
Click to expand...
I don’t know the answers to any of those questions really. I would’ve thought they could be in a position by now where they have effectively eradicated Hamas but what would come out of that is likely another Hamas/Islamic Jihad and round and round it goes.

In an ideal world the war finishes, Netenyahu goes to jail, out of the ashes of Gaza comes new leadership that wants to live side by side with Isreal and then out of that talks can begin where Isreal can make land concessions and a future can be planned but that is pie in the sky stuff so pointless thinking about really.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Click to expand...


I'm not sure anyone on this thread is going to watch this, if they did it would go down super bad.

A lot of history and context, some stuff I disagree with, he does assume the Ottoman empire just years before it crumbled acted like it knew it was crumbling, but historians make these assumptions all the time.

I think if anyone wanted to watch the last 10 minutes it's incredibly important, and especially the strategy of MLK, relating to today's Donald Trump, the success and failings of BLM, and the mind numbing side picking by an uninformed population who take every popular side regardless of lack of interest, emotional ties or knowledge in any subject.

We know Hamas game is to provoke IDF and propagandise the aftermath, with the attempt to pressure western government's to abandon support, and it's interesting on another board a guy was trying to convince me that Islamic immigration into the west is designed by Islamic nations for that very reason. The reason Arab or Islamic nations refuse to take refugees, and promote the funneling to the west to essentially take up causes that benefit the downfall of the west, but specifically Isreal as the first peice.
 
www.bbc.co.uk

Two dead and hundreds arrested in France after PSG Champions League win

Police confirmed PSG's trophy parade will go ahead on Sunday despite the overnight chaos.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

500 people arrested in Paris, 260 vehicles set on fire, 20 odd police injured, fire and ambulence professionals hurt, 30 stores looted, gangs of armed men running around dressed like vigilantes...

WTF happened in !?!?!
.car plowed into a crowd in Grenoble, 2 people dead elsewhere...

Apparently there was rioting after the Arsenal game too...
 
dirty harry said:
I think if anyone wanted to watch the last 10 minutes it's incredibly important, and especially the strategy of MLK, relating to today's Donald Trump, the success and failings of BLM, and the mind numbing side picking by an uninformed population who take every popular side regardless of lack of interest, emotional ties or knowledge in any subject.
Click to expand...
At the end he's talking specifically about conflicts though so not really relatable unless you want it to be.
 
dirty harry said:
I mean he's using MLK as a comparison, especially in strategies for propaganda. Hamas are following MLK's actions to be fair, as BLM tried and failed.
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Not really propaganda as such but strategy in a conflict. I still don’t see what that has to do with Trump unless America was engaged in a conflict and Trump was president. Ukraine is a much more relatable example to what he was talking about. Would you call that zero sum or a tragic (was that the word he used) conflict?
 

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