A Political Thread pt. 2

[Welsh Exile]

So is calling for the death of every IDF member different to saying every member of Hamas should be killed?

Yes it is different but I would happily say, and own, the position that Hamas should be wiped out. This is why I don't get why you guys don't own the death to the IDF chant? They're baby killers right?

 

[Which Tyler]

Because he's wishing for the death of a large group of Jews for being Jews and defending their country. I'd say that's pretty anti semtitc. But of course, he doesn't value their lives or recognise their country so normal for someone like him I'd say.

Wait, you were serious?
I'd thought the last sentence was clear sarcasm, as it's the opposite conclusion the rest of the post would lead you to.


"So it turns out he didn't mean death to the institution of the IDF, and does feel that Israel has the right to exist and defend itself. He's calling for the death of perpetrators of war crimes and attempted genocide - clearly it's because of their religion"

 

[Welsh Exile]

Wait, you were serious?
I'd thought the last sentence was clear sarcasm, as it's the opposite conclusion the rest of the post would lead you to.


"So it turns out he didn't mean death to the institution of the IDF, and does feel that Israel has the right to exist and defend itself. He's calling for the death of perpetrators of war crimes and attempted genocide - clearly it's because of their religion"

You know being a Jew isn’t just a religion, right?

 

[Welsh Exile]

I wonder if we saw say a mass bookburning (of Jewish books) whether the line would be

"They're just books maaaaaan, I mean, you know they're killing babies in Gaza, right?" Burning Jewish books isn't anti semitic bro, maybe they just didn't think the books were very good"

 

[McTallshort]

I wonder if we saw say a mass bookburning (of Jewish books) whether the line would be

"They're just books maaaaaan, I mean, you know they're killing babies in Gaza, right?" Burning Jewish books isn't anti semitic bro, maybe they just didn't think the books were very good"

Who's burning Jewish books?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Who's burning Jewish books?

No one I know of. That’s why I said I wonder if…..

 

[McTallshort]

No one I know of. That's why I said I wonder if…..

So it's a completely made up scenario to increase the perception of victimhood?

 

[McTallshort]

Because he's wishing for the death of a large group of Jews for being Jews and defending their country. I'd say that's pretty anti semtitc. But of course, he doesn't value their lives or recognise their country so normal for someone like him I'd say.

Well that's your conclusion. Personally the whole criticise Israel/anti Semitic thing has been played to death now and it quite tiresome

 

[Welsh Exile]

So it's a completely made up scenario to increase the perception of victimhood?

It’s just a hypothetical for the purposes of imagining what hoops people are willing to create and jump through to justify anti semitism.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Well that's your conclusion. Personally the whole criticise Israel/anti Semitic thing has been played to death now and it quite tiresome

You think what he said was legitimate criticism of Isreal? We’d have to agree to disagree.

It’s like saying October 7th was a legitimate form of resistance.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Council session in a Reform led council and they answer every single question with the same non-response. They have all been given a single answer to repeat for every question.

 

[dirty harry]

One could argue the IDF safeguards Ireali citizens and those living in Isreal, Hamas wants to eradicate Isreal from the map.

For me calling for death if the IDF isn't reasonable but understandable given the emotion people feel from the media, the death of the organisation could mean dismantling it. However calling for wiping out isreal off the map (from the river to the sea) is more of a call for, at very least war on Isrealis.

The kill every soldier is what will get him though, that's specific call for violence.

 

[Which Tyler]

Apparently, actually doing stuff is a little harder than sitting there, nursing grievances, and saying "not that"

 

[Welsh Exile]

One could argue the IDF safeguards Ireali citizens and those living in Isreal, Hamas wants to eradicate Isreal from the map.

For me calling for death if the IDF isn't reasonable but understandable given the emotion people feel from the media, the death of the organisation could mean dismantling it. However calling for wiping out isreal off the map (from the river to the sea) is more of a call for, at very least war on Isrealis.

The kill every soldier is what will get him though, that's specific call for violence.

It's the strangest thing. Israelis/Zionists are apparently the most evil people on the planet. They deliberately target children and aid workers, they are imperial colonialists with a racist ideology, they operate concentration camps and are currently conducting a genocide. Why would you not support these people to be killed if they showed no intention of stopping what they are doing?

 

[Reiser99]

You know being a Jew isn't just a religion, right?

You do know that not all Jewish people are Israeli and that Israel is a state and the IDF is a military force of that state? Unfortunately, you seem to have bought into the view that any criticism of Israel = antisemitism.

Just to be clear, I don't condone the chant. I don't think all IDF members should be killed. Many should be punished. Same as I don't condone killing all Hamas members. I'm happy for them to be punished, locked up and the group disbanded, but being part of a group should not result in a death sentence. That is not just or moral.

My objection is your assertion that saying "kill all the IDF" is the same as "kill all the jews".

 

[McTallshort]

It's just a hypothetical for the purposes of imagining what hoops people are willing to create and jump through to justify anti semitism.

Or the hoops people are willing to create to justify in their minds the death of 50k Palestinians in order to keep a right wing prime minister out of court

 

[Welsh Exile]

You do know that not all Jewish people are Israeli and that Israel is a state and the IDF is a military force of that state? Unfortunately, you seem to have bought into the view that any criticism of Israel = antisemitism.

Just to be clear, I don't condone the chant. I don't think all IDF members should be killed. Many should be punished. Same as I don't condone killing all Hamas members. I'm happy for them to be punished, locked up and the group disbanded, but being part of a group should not result in a death sentence. That is not just or moral.

My objection is your assertion that saying "kill all the IDF" is the same as "kill all the jews".

Not at all. It's really easy to criticise Isreal without wishing for the death of every single IDF conscript. If you're interested I can give you a whole list of things I would criticise them for that wouldn't involve me saying kill everyone in the IDF.

You're right, he's not saying kill all the Jews but it's not far off is it given the majority of Israelis have to serve and the majority of Isrealis (and Jews outside of Isreal) support the existence, in some form, of the state of Isreal. At the very least he's saying kill all the Jews who Jews in general want to protect them, that's anti semitic in my view and I'm sure most Jews would think the same

 

[Ddanno]

If you're going to support the government of Israel at least ******* spell it right

 

[Welsh Exile]

Or the hoops people are willing to create to justify in their minds the death of 50k Palestinians in order to keep a right wing prime minister out of court

I agree Netenyahu has been motivated by political means but there’s no way he or his government do what they did from October 8th onwards without October 7th happening in the first place. I’m sure he was happy to jump on it though and that is obviously not good.

I feel a lot of yours and other peoples
Positions essentially boil down to “war is bad.” Can it ever be justified? In my opinion most certainly but others would obviously rather, or feel that Isreal should, just sit back and do nothing as they are the ones to blame for everything. I don’t think a left wing Isreal government would’ve acted that differently initially anyway given the pressure to act being so high.

 

[Welsh Exile]

If you're going to support the government of Israel at least ******* spell it right

It’s a micro aggression. Just trying to fit in.