A Political Thread pt. 2

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Better to withdraw to the city's and leave the steppe to the Russian tanks.

Has anyone watched RT? It's like looking into a parallel universe

I saw Ken Livingstone on RT last night comparing the occupation of Donbas to the Scottish independence referendum as simply people striving for democratic self determination. He was strangely quiet on whether that meant Dagestan and Chechnya should be allowed to leave Russia. Total bell end!

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Same for both sides/the issue with the two party system, really
Look how divided Labour is - people who got into politics because of Corbyn's idealism are now being told they have to vote for centrism despite it being nothing like what they actually believe in

Yeah for the left of the left it's fairly similar. At least the Lib Dems leaves something to go to when they decide to have a bit of backbone and the greens are something. On the right we have Tories and then whatever UKIP are called that week

TBF you live in Scotland right? Your vote is worth about as much mine trying to not get a Tory right?

Yep, and the party up here are fairly different tbf as it's just a vote for the biggest unionist party for a lot of people which changes the character of it's politicians somewhat

 

[Deleted member 53362]

I saw Ken Livingstone on RT last night comparing the occupation of Donbas to the Scottish independence referendum as simply people striving for democratic self determination. He was strangely quiet on whether that meant Dagestan and Chechnya should be allowed to leave Russia. Total bell end!

Sold his soul to the devil that man

 

[ncurd]

Same for both sides/the issue with the two party system, really
Look how divided Labour is - people who got into politics because of Corbyn's idealism are now being told they have to vote for centrism despite it being nothing like what they actually believe in

Yeah for the left of the left it's fairly similar. At least the Lib Dems leaves something to go to when they decide to have a bit of backbone and the greens are something. On the right we have Tories and then whatever UKIP are called that week

I think Corbyn bought in two kinds of voter young idealists, who are now struggling with some pragmatism, going on the previous discussion Starmer isn't really that much different from the Millibands. But pragmatism isn't that sexy and its a bit of crushing of dreams and its pretty ugly to watch at times.

The Green's are fine for most of that group though but also constitutes a wasted vote.

The LD's use represent a pretty good center-left/center option but Brexit has pretty much killed the party (more so than the coalition ever did) they now represent essentially a very hardcore rejoin EU group who don't realise how they lost with the last election meant its not an option for decades. Meaning they've picked up a lot of One Nation Tories who are the least evil version but when you more ascribe to the SDP side its a shift rightwards whilst becoming one issue. They're coming back by the looks of things but I was part of the Kennedy generation and they've had successfully worse leaders leading to a complete non entity from a lack of choice.

I don't know who is really there to represent the Corbyn left currently if they don't want to be pragmatic. Groups like NIP are complete crackpots.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I think Corbyn bought in two kinds of voter young idealists, who are now struggling with some pragmatism, going on the previous discussion Starmer isn't really that much different from the Millibands. But pragmatism isn't that sexy and its a bit of crushing of dreams and its pretty ugly to watch at times.

The Green's are fine for most of that group though but also constitutes a wasted vote.

The LD's use represent a pretty good center-left/center option but Brexit has pretty much killed the party (more so than the coalition ever did) they now represent essentially a very hardcore rejoin EU group who don't realise how they lost with the last election meant its not an option for decades. Meaning they've picked up a lot of One Nation Tories who are the least evil version but when you more ascribe to the SDP side its a shift rightwards whilst becoming one issue. They're coming back by the looks of things but I was part of the Kennedy generation and they've had successfully worse leaders leading to a complete non entity from a lack of choice.

I don't know who is really there to represent the Corbyn left currently if they don't want to be pragmatic. Groups like NIP are complete crackpots.

I do appreciate being called the least evil version, it's the biggest complement I've ever had in this thread

If I had 3 wishes, it would be another green party with a realistic vision (free market environmentalism and loooooads of nuclear), the Tories as a genuinely consistent One Nation vision and a proper classical liberal alternative

 

[ncurd]

Sorry forgot the other group Corbyn attracted was the older complete crackpots who have seen it all end in tears before but still convinced they'll win someday...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Oh Tory 100%. I know who my candidate would be and he is a nice chap who I trust to speak up when it comes to it and lobby for actual tory principles and a competent leader. My local association is fantastic and full of really honest people doing their best to do the right thing.

I've said this before I think, but part of the problem with the right in this country is that we don't really have much choice as to who to vote for - there really aren't any other options so it's meant that the party is idealogical diluted and when **** crops up like this, the only answer for me is to fight for change within the party rather than just sit on my hands and do **** all

It's swings and roundabouts. On the one hand you have no alternative on the right if you dislike the government but still want to vote right but the flip side is that means a completely corrupt and incompetent right wing government can keep getting voted into power off the back of a minority of votes.

What we really need is a proportional representation system and an acceptance that one single party is unlikely to get an absolute majority. Heaven forbid parties learn to compromise a bit...

 

[General Melchett]

Corbyn attracted younger voters because they blamed the Tories for Brexit but unfortunately they really didn't look into what he actually stood for. Think he was viewed initially as the British Bernie Sanders (sigh).

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Corbyn attracted younger voters because they blamed the Tories for Brexit but unfortunately they really didn't look into what he actually stood for.

I think they saw an image of compassion and found it relatable so found themselves buying into the larger picture.

I don't think he's a bad guy, by all accounts he is quite nice in person, but that doesn't mean I think his politics are any good

 

[General Melchett]

I think they saw an image of compassion and found it relatable so found themselves buying into the larger picture.

I don't think he's a bad guy, by all accounts he is quite nice in person, but that doesn't mean I think his politics are any good

He was majorly out of his depth and nowhere near fit to lead a country let alone a major political party. Being a backbencher is his level.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

This is interesting if true

 

[Welsh Exile]

He was majorly out of his depth and nowhere near fit to lead a country let alone a major political party. Being a backbencher is his level.

I don’t disagree but then people thought Boris Johnson was. As Frankie Boyle said, it’s not a case of whether there are better people for the job compared to Boris, there are better mammals.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

This is interesting if true

Presumably Germany bricking it about the gas being turned off?

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Weird how everyone talked about Corbyn being a security risk given how in bed the current government is with Putin and his mates

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Presumably Germany bricking it about the gas being turned off?

Assume so, that seems like the end result here anyway surely? Makes the whole thing pointless if we're not even leaving all assets on the table

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Weird how everyone talked about Corbyn being a security risk given how in bed the current government is with Putin and his mates

Laughable when you think about it - that was actually on a legitimate program, not a parody show or anything

 

[Gavin]

Apparently there's fighting around Chernobyl now, with Russian troops coming in from Belarus.

Glad I got to visit the site when I did in 2019

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Apparently there's fighting around Chernobyl now, with Russian troops coming in from Belarus.

Glad I got to visit the site when I did in 2019

Honestly surprised that this has happened so quickly - I thought they'd at least keep up the facade of "We just want to protect the newly independent territories" for at least 24hrs before moving on to the rest of the country

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Honestly surprised that this has happened so quickly - I thought they'd at least keep up the facade of "We just want to protect the newly independent territories" for at least 24hrs before moving on to the rest of the country

Russian paratroops have captured an airfield 20 km from Kyiv. They will likely take the city within a day or 2 now and the Ukrainian government will have to relocate, if they haven't already, or be forced out.

 

[ncurd]

Honestly surprised that this has happened so quickly - I thought they'd at least keep up the facade of "We just want to protect the newly independent territories" for at least 24hrs before moving on to the rest of the country

I'm sure the argument is something like Ukraine is now the aggressor in trying to hold these territories, now Russia must move on strategically important locations to stop their actions.

Its ******** but that's how they'll spin it.