A Political Thread pt. 2

[Welsh Exile]

In some cases war crimes.

But not genocide, no.

Oh yeah that’s right. Coz settlers.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Argee with the sentiment but no idea how that's possible when everyone around you pretty much wants you wiped off the planet.

I do wonder what would have been a proportionate response to the attacks by Israel. What's happening now isn't it. The same as with the war on terror by the US and UK. I've no doubt it was a green light to Israel in there reaction.

I often wonder what the response would’ve been had a left wing coalition had been in power. My guess is not to much different in the first year but it’s anyone’s guess really.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Argee with the sentiment but no idea how that's possible when everyone around you pretty much wants you wiped off the planet.

I do wonder what would have been a proportionate response to the attacks by Israel. What's happening now isn't it. The same as with the war on terror by the US and UK. I've no doubt it was a green light to Israel in there reaction.

What he means is he wants Isreal gone and a 1 state solution in place.

 

[McTallshort]

"in some cases"

Sorry you have something to add?

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think we committed war crimes, in what turned out to be an illegal war.
I don't support the wars in the Middle East or the use of our forces in it.

Also do you have a split of how many aid workers where killed by the western forces?

So why don't you extend the same courtesy to Isreal. Why is it automatically genocide with them but not with us, France America etc

 

[dirty harry]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...rian-aid/00000197-ad8e-de01-a39f-ffbe33780000

Israeli newspaper also btw

https://archive.ph/pQw3k

I had to read that article 3 times, its all over the place, and granted I'm a bit slow, but the contradictions were everywhere.

I've no idea if any of these sources (still unsure if there are 3 or 33 btw) are accurate, or if Haaretz have massaged some things, as they have done previously, but I'm struggling to make sense of that jumble. One soldier says its IDF policy to shoot at people, another said its not policy, but an issue of culture on the ground, one source says there's no threat to IDF soldiers, another says there are malitia fire and noone knows who's shooting...

 

[McTallshort]

But not genocide, no.

Oh yeah that's right. Coz settlers.

Genocide is a war crime. Look you try and justify what the IDF is doing any way you want "yeah 50k dead but it's not quite genocide yet is it?" But you won't be on the right side of history in the same way I wasn't supporting the British army and Loyalist groups in Northern Ireland. I could always try and justify what was going on but in reality it was my ego not letting me see I was wrong.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Genocide is a war crime. Look you try and justify what the IDF is doing any way you want "yeah 50k dead but it's not quite genocide yet is it?" But you won't be on the right side of history in the same way I wasn't supporting the British army and Loyalist groups in Northern Ireland. I could always try and justify what was going on but in reality it was my ego not letting me see I was wrong.

First of all you have no idea what the numbers are. Are all those 50 thousand dead civilians? I suppose Isreal has killed no Hamas fighters.

It's good to know though that when we kill any civilians in a future war we get a pass. Not the Israelis though, if they get into a war and even produce a 1-1 combatant to civilian death ratio (I'm not saying they have by the way) then it's still genocide.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Argee with the sentiment but no idea how that's possible when everyone around you pretty much wants you wiped off the planet.

I do wonder what would have been a proportionate response to the attacks by Israel. What's happening now isn't it. The same as with the war on terror by the US and UK. I've no doubt it was a green light to Israel in there reaction.

I mean an pretty easy one for starters would've been not killing people on the West Bank and putting settlers on it...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So why don't you extend the same courtesy to Isreal. Why is it automatically genocide with them but not with us, France America etc

I mean thats fairly obvious we had no intention of wiping Iraq off the face of the planet.

Do you even know the definition of genocide?

Jesus Christ some people on here are crazy the loops they are jumping through to defend killing of civilians and aid workers.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

First of all you have no idea what the numbers are. Are all those 50 thousand dead civilians? I suppose Isreal has killed no Hamas fighters.

It's good to know though that when we kill any civilians in a future war we get a pass. Not the Israelis though, if they get into a war and even produce a 1-1 combatant to civilian death ratio (I'm not saying they have by the way) then it's still genocide.

So what are you saying then? What is an acceptable ratio?
Also I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people who are against Israel's actions are also against the actions of the west in the gulf wars.

 

[Saintjay]

What he means is he wants Isreal gone and a 1 state solution in place.

I don't think he does.

Ultimately most of the modern worlds borders are drawn up by who has the biggest military force at the time. Mainly from events years ago and the British galavanting about in powdered wigs playing team America world police.

You have various indigenous people with claims to land around the world. I don't think anyone would endorse them rising up and killing those who came after. Saying that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter to some. The debate over is violence to achieve a political outcome ever acceptable is one for another day, me thinks.

 

[McTallshort]

First of all you have no idea what the numbers are. Are all those 50 thousand dead civilians? I suppose Isreal has killed no Hamas fighters.

It's good to know though that when we kill any civilians in a future war we get a pass. Not the Israelis though, if they get into a war and even produce a 1-1 combatant to civilian death ratio (I'm not saying they have by the way) then it's still genocide.

When the **** did I say we get a pass?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What he means is he wants Isreal gone and a 1 state solution in place.

No I want them to act like a democratic state, and show restraint.
Hamas was beaten to a pulp a few months into this thing. Now it's a complete genocide.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I mean thats fairly obvious we had no intention of wiping Iraq off the face of the planet.

Do you even know the definition of genocide?

Jesus Christ some people on here are crazy the loops they are jumping through to defend killing of civilians and aid workers.

And I could put that right back to you. Look at the hoops people are jumping through running defence for a terrorist organisation.

 

[Welsh Exile]

So what are you saying then? What is an acceptable ratio?
Also I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people who are against Israel's actions are also against the actions of the west in the gulf wars.

Well 1-1 in an urban war would basically be unprecedented so I’d probably say that is more than acceptable. I’ve seen anything up to 7:1 civilian to combatant but I don’t think that’s justifiable. I think you want to keep it within 3:1 even with Hamas’ deplorable tactics.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

And I could put that right back to you. Look at the hoops people are jumping through running defence for a terrorist organisation.

What hoops?
Where have I defended Hamas?

 

[dirty harry]

I mean thats fairly obvious we had no intention of wiping Iraq off the face of the planet.

Do you even know the definition of genocide?

Jesus Christ some people on here are crazy the loops they are jumping through to defend killing of civilians and aid workers.

Are you claiming Isreal are trying to wipe Gaza off the face of the planet?

 

[McTallshort]

I mean thats fairly obvious we had no intention of wiping Iraq off the face of the planet.

Do you even know the definition of genocide?

Jesus Christ some people on here are crazy the loops they are jumping through to defend killing of civilians and aid workers.

Ah yeah but can you prove they were aid workers, was it actual genocide and we all know everyone else does it so it's fair game....

 

[McTallshort]

Well 1-1 in an urban war would basically be unprecedented so I'd probably say that is more than acceptable. I've seen anything up to 7:1 civilian to combatant but I don't think that's justifiable. I think you want to keep it within 3:1 even with Hamas' deplorable tactics.

Most urban wars the civil population is allowed to flee...