A Political Thread pt. 2

[Saintjay]

Unite Union and Rayner having a spat. With Graham saying Labour are no longer for working class. Wouldn't surprise me if Unite walked away and stopped donating to Labour.

Equaly Graham up for election at some point so could also be smoke and mirrors.

 

[dirty harry]

Not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that boomers have statistically been one of the most fortunate generations for a long time, having a larger share of the overall wealth in the economy at a younger age and without having to be especially skilled or trained to do so. When this same generation got hold of the levers of power, support for the same system that gave them this was pulled away and solidified further transfer of wealth into the boomer generation.

It's nothing to do with spending habits, Millennials and others have a vastly reduced share of the overall economy by the same age as boomers did. I can't find the figures right now but it's something to the effect of a Gen X'er has 50% of the wealth a boomer did by the age of 25 proportional to the economy as a whole. That's not down to spending habits, that's down to mass wage stagnation and vast increases in day to day expenses. Biggest expenses are renting and mortgages, eclipsing what boomers faced at the same age. A single unskilled labourer now cannot support a family in the same way they could during boomer times, no matter how careful they are. It's not a case of financial prudence any more, it's a case of it being simply impossible now.

A common argument against having to fix any of this was that the next generation would inherit all this boomer wealth when they were done with it (which is pretty ******* condescending, you may have the sort of life we had in our 30's when we are all done with it). Now we're being told that this common argument for why it actually isn't so bad for the following generations is turning out to likely not be true, it will get taxed to hell and that wealth goes into the pockets of governments for a few years then vanishes into the ether.

It's not just a case of inheritance, it's inheritance AND the fact living standards have been squeezed so much.

Except Boomers went through hard times, recessions, and a total financial collapse. Why did they come out of it and prosper? Prosperity and spending habits.

They didnt sign up to car finance they couldn't afford, they didnt walk around with 1k iphones in their pocket, and they didnt over spend on food and delivery's.

Let's take my dad for example, born in 48, was in the mine by 1960, by 1973 he found himself destitute. 25, there was a major recession, he lived off the dole, and squatted in a 2 bed flat with 4 mates to survive.he finally moved into his first home, and was the first person in the family to ever buy a home in 1981.

This is a common story in the UK, people were dragged out of poverty, and now ignorant people get to denigrate them because they made something of their lives, and generations after them expect a higher standard of living for less effort.

Let's look at the people complaining on social media about their salaries not being able to purchase the average house in the UK.

Shitty salaries today, are so much better than shotty salaries of 50 years ago, heading down a mine shift at 12 years old for pennies is not ******* comparable to 10 quid per hour flipping burgers. And that's why older generations dont give a **** about spoiled and entitled kids.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's like a daily mail comment section greatest hits

 

[Reiser99]

Unite Union and Rayner having a spat. With Graham saying Labour are no longer for working class. Wouldn't surprise me if Unite walked away and stopped donating to Labour.

Equaly Graham up for election at some point so could also be smoke and mirrors.

Would be dangerous to walk away if they are worried about the Conservatives getting in, but then that just takes us back to the issue that we have a **** electoral system.

Tbh the working class are no where near as united as they have been in the past and many have moved to the right over issues such as immigration. I'm sure there are more than a few Unite members who don't want their membership fee going to Labour.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Except Boomers went through hard times, recessions, and a total financial collapse. Why did they come out of it and prosper? Prosperity and spending habits.

They didnt sign up to car finance they couldn't afford, they didnt walk around with 1k iphones in their pocket, and they didnt over spend on food and delivery's.

Let's take my dad for example, born in 48, was in the mine by 1960, by 1973 he found himself destitute. 25, there was a major recession, he lived off the dole, and squatted in a 2 bed flat with 4 mates to survive.he finally moved into his first home, and was the first person in the family to ever buy a home in 1981.

This is a common story in the UK, people were dragged out of poverty, and now ignorant people get to denigrate them because they made something of their lives, and generations after them expect a higher standard of living for less effort.

Let's look at the people complaining on social media about their salaries not being able to purchase the average house in the UK.

Shitty salaries today, are so much better than shotty salaries of 50 years ago, heading down a mine shift at 12 years old for pennies is not ******* comparable to 10 quid per hour flipping burgers. And that's why older generations dont give a **** about spoiled and entitled kids.

Which part of boomers having a larger portion of wealth by the same age through the entire adult life, INCLUDING during the hard times is so difficult to understand? Boomers went through hard times, they also went through good times. Millennials have known the financial crash of 2008, recession, austerity, Covid and the war in Ukraine. This is getting on to 17 years of stagnation. Boomers did not go through that. I have spent my entire adult life in a struggling economy.

The "millennials are poor with their money" is just ********. A larger portion of a Millennials spending is basic costs of living compared to what boomers had. For example, Gen Z pay 2.5 times adjusted for inflation what a Boomer would have paid on their mortgage. You think having to find 2.5 times mortgage payments has no impact on someone and it's actually a 1k iphone? To put it in perspective, that 1k smarphone is the equivalent to 1 MONTH mortgage payment difference between a Boomer and a Gen Z in real terms. But sure, portray it just as financial incompetence. I'm sure boomers would have had no trouble whatsoever suddenly having to find 2.5 times their mortgage payments from day 1. Nah it must be Netflix and ******* avocado toast. Do you even keep track of monthly expenses? Do you know how all this **** pales in comparison to mortgage and renting costs!?

"This is a common story in the UK, people were dragged out of poverty, and now ignorant people get to denigrate them because they made something of their lives, and generations after them expect a higher standard of living for less effort."

No, nobody is denigrating them for having good lives, the issues is then denying those same opportunities to those who came after to solidify their own position and then denigrating those that followed. If anything generations following the boomers are having to do much much more to achieve the same as boomers did.

"Shitty salaries today, are so much better than shotty salaries of 50 years ago"

No they aren't. A shitty salary in the past could buy you a house and raise a family on a single income. You think you can buy a house and raise a family on a single McDonalds burger flipping salary? No, you can't.

 

[Which Tyler]

Tilting at windmills again Ragey?

 

[odw26]

Let's take my dad for example, born in 48, was in the mine by 1960, by 1973 he found himself destitute. 25, there was a major recession, he lived off the dole, and squatted in a 2 bed flat with 4 mates to survive.he finally moved into his first home, and was the first person in the family to ever buy a home in 1981.

To put that into context...

 

[dirty harry]

Which part of boomers having a larger portion of wealth by the same age through the entire adult life, INCLUDING during the hard times is so difficult to understand? Boomers went through hard times, they also went through good times. Millennials have known the financial crash of 2008, recession, austerity, Covid and the war in Ukraine. This is getting on to 17 years of stagnation. Boomers did not go through that. I have spent my entire adult life in a struggling economy.

The "millennials are poor with their money" is just ********. A larger portion of a Millennials spending is basic costs of living compared to what boomers had. For example, Gen Z pay 2.5 times adjusted for inflation what a Boomer would have paid on their mortgage. You think having to find 2.5 times mortgage payments has no impact on someone and it's actually a 1k iphone? To put it in perspective, that 1k smarphone is the equivalent to 1 MONTH mortgage payment difference between a Boomer and a Gen Z in real terms. But sure, portray it just as financial incompetence. I'm sure boomers would have had no trouble whatsoever suddenly having to find 2.5 times their mortgage payments from day 1. Nah it must be Netflix and ******* avocado toast. Do you even keep track of monthly expenses? Do you know how all this **** pales in comparison to mortgage and renting costs!?

"This is a common story in the UK, people were dragged out of poverty, and now ignorant people get to denigrate them because they made something of their lives, and generations after them expect a higher standard of living for less effort."

No, nobody is denigrating them for having good lives, the issues is then denying those same opportunities to those who came after to solidify their own position and then denigrating those that followed. If anything generations following the boomers are having to do much much more to achieve the same as boomers did.

"Shitty salaries today, are so much better than shotty salaries of 50 years ago"

No they aren't. A shitty salary in the past could buy you a house and raise a family on a single income. You think you can buy a house and raise a family on a single McDonalds burger flipping salary? No, you can't.

Theres some very small flaws to this argument...

Boomers saw interest rates of near 20%, you can claim they paid 2.5 times less for their mortgage, but in 1980, the average salary in s Wales was 4.5k, average house price was 20k, and interest rate was 17%.

That's a mortgage of 75% of the average salary.

But let's say the interest rate wasnt at the all time high these people experienced, let's say it was at the lowest point of the 80s, 10%. Thats still a mortgage of 175, 48% of their income.


The average salary today is 34k, average house price 210k, making the mortgage 1k per month.

Thats a mortgage of 33% of the salary.

The numbers just dont support that genuinely z has had it harder than boomers. Granted I havnt

 

[dirty harry]

To put that into context...

View attachment 24092

Thanks for proving my point...

Average salary 5k to 34k, average house price 20k to 210k.

Interest rates in 1980 17%, today 4%.

% of salary spent on mortgage 1980 75%, today 33%.

 

[Ddanno]

No wonder there's so much sewage in our waters

 

[Saintjay]

Would be dangerous to walk away if they are worried about the Conservatives getting in, but then that just takes us back to the issue that we have a **** electoral system.

Tbh the working class are no where near as united as they have been in the past and many have moved to the right over issues such as immigration. I'm sure there are more than a few Unite members who don't want their membership fee going to Labour.

You can opt out of donations from your subscription. I think the last poll i saw was the percentage of people who id as working class were more to reform then Labour. Middle class were Cons then Labour.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Theres some very small flaws to this argument...

Boomers saw interest rates of near 20%, you can claim they paid 2.5 times less for their mortgage, but in 1980, the average salary in s Wales was 4.5k, average house price was 20k, and interest rate was 17%.

That's a mortgage of 75% of the average salary.

But let's say the interest rate wasnt at the all time high these people experienced, let's say it was at the lowest point of the 80s, 10%. Thats still a mortgage of 175, 48% of their income.


The average salary today is 34k, average house price 210k, making the mortgage 1k per month.

Thats a mortgage of 33% of the salary.

The numbers just dont support that genuinely z has had it harder than boomers. Granted I havnt

That's assuming the LTV was similar then. It's much easier to get a larger deposit when the house price is a lower multiple of your salary. To save for a 15% deposit in 1980 (3k) would have been 66% of a yearly salary. To save for a 15% deposit now (31.5k) is 92.6% of a yearly salary. You're having to find nearly an extra 50% of your yearly salary just for the same deposit, which is leading to lower deposits and higher interest rates.

That also doesn't compare pressures on income like taxation, bills, food costs, transportation etc, which have all risen substantially as a proportion of peoples earnings these days. Taxation now is at the highest peacetime levels ever.

 

[AlRums]

BBC bosses pulled our film on Israel attacking Gaza’s med...

The producers' story of how the corporation repeatedly delayed and ultimately shelved their damning documentary

observer.co.uk

 

[dirty harry]

That's assuming the LTV was similar then. It's much easier to get a larger deposit when the house price is a lower multiple of your salary. To save for a 15% deposit in 1980 (3k) would have been 66% of a yearly salary. To save for a 15% deposit now (31.5k) is 92.6% of a yearly salary. You're having to find nearly an extra 50% of your yearly salary just for the same deposit, which is leading to lower deposits and higher interest rates.

That also doesn't compare pressures on income like taxation, bills, food costs, transportation etc, which have all risen substantially as a proportion of peoples earnings these days. Taxation now is at the highest peacetime levels ever.

This would be absolutely correct, if it wasnt for Savills studies that show more than half of deposits were subsidised by parents, and the average gift was 55k.

The average gift from parents in 1980 isn't even possible to find, because the number is so insignificant.

So the 50% extra is given to them, as always, the generation of entitlement, who recieved more in gifts than any generation before is complaining about how hard they have it.

Then let's compare transport, access to a car in 1980 was about 0.5 per household, in 2025 its 1.2 per household. This maybe can be determined by house sharing rates increasing, but then that would also highlight how the bills increase has been effected also.

However you look at thebraw data, there is literally nothing a single person alive today, who is willing to sacrifice their life to live a life in 1980.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And the half that weren't gifted a deposit?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

This would be absolutely correct, if it wasnt for Savills studies that show more than half of deposits were subsidised by parents, and the average gift was 55k.

The average gift from parents in 1980 isn't even possible to find, because the number is so insignificant.

So the 50% extra is given to them, as always, the generation of entitlement, who recieved more in gifts than any generation before is complaining about how hard they have it.

Then let's compare transport, access to a car in 1980 was about 0.5 per household, in 2025 its 1.2 per household. This maybe can be determined by house sharing rates increasing, but then that would also highlight how the bills increase has been effected also.

However you look at thebraw data, there is literally nothing a single person alive today, who is willing to sacrifice their life to live a life in 1980.

Deposits are subsidised precisely because nobody can save enough for them, how the **** have you turned that into proving they have it easy? It proves how difficult it is to save for a deposit. My god...

Who subsidised? The Boomers who have been able to accumulate a larger share of the economy than any generation in as long as these stats have been recorded.

Maybe not many would want to go back to 1980 but I'm sure quite a few would feel more keen about the 60's, 70's and 90's. There are big eras of positives in each of those decades. Tell me what the great moments of positivity are economically between 2008 and now to compare. What time of plenty have we had in the last 17 years?

 

[dirty harry]

Deposits are subsidised precisely because nobody can save enough for them, how the **** have you turned that into proving they have it easy? It proves how difficult it is to save for a deposit. My god...

Who subsidised? The Boomers who have been able to accumulate a larger share of the economy than any generation in as long as these stats have been recorded.

Maybe not many would want to go back to 1980 but I'm sure quite a few would feel more keen about the 60's, 70's and 90's. There are big eras of positives in each of those decades. Tell me what the great moments of positivity are economically between 2008 and now to compare. What time of plenty have we had in the last 17 years?

Yes, deposits are now gifted in more than 50% of kids by an average of 55k...

How do you not see this as generational privilege?!

What are you talking about? From 2008 to 2025 the housing market has sky rocketed, I bought my first house in 2009, at 23 years old, for 80k, with a 5% deposit. That house is now worth 250k.

I bought 3 more properties at an average price of 60k, now all have an average price of 195k. 3 x over a 12 to 16 year period.

My stocks have absolutely exploded from 2010, sp500 was under 1k and now sits over 6k. Thays a 6x increase.

Crypto has gone from Non existent to unreal values, I bought 5 Bitcoin at 285 quid originally, I then sold them at 2800, and rebought 3 at 4k that I still hold.

The last 17 years has been incredibly profitable, property, investments, new avenues, new business start ups have sky rocketed between 2010 and 2020...

 

[dirty harry]

And the half that weren't gifted a deposit?

Self funded by those who pulled themselves up by the boot straps.

Home ownership has barely dropped between 1980 and 2025, 62% to 56%. Considering migration that's a stat that reflects population increase 55milion to 70 million. 34million homeowners to 39 million

 

[ncurd]

My deposit wasn't gifted I paid my Dad back.

What is insane is I paid him the difference between my mortage cost and my rent which was 300 quid a month.

As I've said before he was able as graduate straight after Uni able to afford a large 3 bedroom house and his wife worked part time. Also had 2 kids. In the mid 80's

I took to my mid 30's with zero kids and was unable to do it until he assisted me.

Who's better with money? Probably me were both shocking at times. Difference is he didnt need to be.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

From 2008 to 2025 the housing market has sky rocketed, I bought my first house in 2009, at 23 years old, for 80k, with a 5% deposit. That house is now worth 250k.

I bought 3 more properties at an average price of 60k, now all have an average price of 195k. 3 x over a 12 to 16 year period.

And the people who didn't buy property at the same point in time as you and now have to deal with the sky rocketed prices?

I don't get how you can type that and not see it as a huge issue for the younger generation