A Political Thread pt. 2

[dirty harry]

No Harry you were arguing for the sake of it without knowing what you were talking about.

I've linked two sketchy articles with the quote.

The first article made absolutely no mention they were actors on behalf of Palestine Action, keep your knickers on. But please go and find in that original article where it made the statement they were Palestine Action?

 

[Saintjay]

The first article made absolutely no mention they were actors on behalf of Palestine Action, keep your knickers on. But please go and find in that original article where it made the statement they were Palestine Action?

Knickers?

Anyone with the ability to read can tell you it was Palestine Action.

 

[dirty harry]

Knickers?

Anyone with the ability to read can tell you it was Palestine Action.

Then please show me in that first article where it makes statement they were?

As ive said, ive done some wider reading, they may well have links, or even been part of officially, but the first article doesnt say what you think it does.

But either way, hand made signs even saying they support Palestine Action, dont need to cart off and inundate the system of 500 elderly, and disabled people included. This is an over reaction to make headlines, and quell public protest ability, and demand change.

The right applause this as carting off communists, and the right will whinge and moan when random people are arrested to instigate the crowd, and people are warned in their homes not to turn up to anti immigration protests etc..

Its the never ending cycle of power, everything each side has an issue, they bemoan it, the opposing side applaud and the government takes another inch of civil rights away.

I mean come on, police knocking doors pre emptively warning people about attending protests you have to agree is oppressive in nature?!

Just to clarify my stance, im pro human rights, I interpret the UNHRC like the Americans do, free speech is a given human right, unless calling for violence etc.

I totally disagreed with the BLM protests, but applauded the protests, I disagree with pro Palestine Action protests, while applauding the protests, and I disagree with the anti immigration protests while applauding the protests.

 

[Which Tyler]

I was going to say...
Personal opinion: I don't think we should start banning people who haven't broken the board rules; though I've no problem whatsoever with introducing a DBAD rule - but then, I'd have a big problem with applying it retrospectively.

But then, DH likes the suggestion that he be banned, so... this might be a case of "live by the sword"

 

[dirty harry]

View attachment 24327
I was going to say...
Personal opinion: I don't think we should start banning people who haven't broken the board rules; though I've no problem whatsoever with introducing a DBAD rule - but then, I'd have a big problem with applying it retrospectively.

But then, DH likes the suggestion that he be banned, so... this might be a case of "live by the sword"

Hahaha

How would you respond to constant calls for your banning, and barrage of abuse from the same 3/4 posters (yes ive started reporting them)?

I'm trying to fulfill a promise from @Welsh Exile not to laugh at silly comments

Look we all know the ban is coming, opposing opinions go down like a led balloon on this website, dog piling is regular, waves of personal attacks happen to the same few posters, and eventually you will all be able to agree on every governmentally approved subject.

I for one would hate the idea of sitting in an echo chamber, but its a very popular place to want to be across the Internet hahaha

 

[Ddanno]

@TRF_Olyy seriously I've had enough and have had multiple members of the guy wrecking threads with comments designed rage and bait. Its not enough to ignore because how much he derails thread can we please for the love of god do something about it? Otherwise these political threads are a waste of time.

Seconded. There's no point reading or posting in here with him around.

 

[Saintjay]

Then please show me in that first article where it makes statement they were?

As ive said, ive done some wider reading, they may well have links, or even been part of officially, but the first article doesnt say what you think it does.

But either way, hand made signs even saying they support Palestine Action, dont need to cart off and inundate the system of 500 elderly, and disabled people included. This is an over reaction to make headlines, and quell public protest ability, and demand change.

The right applause this as carting off communists, and the right will whinge and moan when random people are arrested to instigate the crowd, and people are warned in their homes not to turn up to anti immigration protests etc..

Its the never ending cycle of power, everything each side has an issue, they bemoan it, the opposing side applaud and the government takes another inch of civil rights away.

I mean come on, police knocking doors pre emptively warning people about attending protests you have to agree is oppressive in nature?!

Just to clarify my stance, im pro human rights, I interpret the UNHRC like the Americans do, free speech is a given human right, unless calling for violence etc.

I totally disagreed with the BLM protests, but applauded the protests, I disagree with pro Palestine Action protests, while applauding the protests, and I disagree with the anti immigration protests while applauding the protests.

Sorry but you don't get to do petty insults and move on to something else.

For the record i don't wear knickers apart from the one's your Mrs sends me.

To be honest they are a tad large.

Report that you absolute twat

 

[dirty harry]

Sorry but you don't get to do petty insults and move on to something else.

For the record i don't wear knickers apart from the one's your Mrs sends me.

To be honest they are a tad large.

Report that you absolute twat

Have a good day mate

 

[ncurd]

I was going to say...
Personal opinion: I don't think we should start banning people who haven't broken the board rules; though I've no problem whatsoever with introducing a DBAD rule - but then, I'd have a big problem with applying it retrospectively.

I think for me there are problems and "problems" in terms of members. I think being a deliberate and admitted troll is good enough they your intent is to pushed the forum rules to their limit.

 

[dirty harry]

I think for me there are problems and "problems" in terms of members. I think being a deliberate and admitted troll is good enough they your intent is to pushed the forum rules to their limit.

Is disagreement a limit in your view?

 

[Ddanno]

Just three Valley Commandos in a long coat.

 

[Which Tyler]

Just three Valley Commandos in a long coat.

 

[ncurd]

Is disagreement a limit in your view?

I've been on this forum for over 10 years I've never said someone should be banned for disagreeing with me. I've put on ignore a whole one person before for political thread reasons before this year.

 

[dirty harry]

I've been on this forum for over 10 years I've never said someone should be banned for disagreeing with me. I've put on ignore a whole one person before for political thread reasons before this year.

So first time?

Im actually shocked the hysteria got so bad over the idea that this government has a trend of overreacting.

I would have thought government overreach would be a universal concern we all shared!

 

[General Melchett]

I see what you're saying but again I'd remind everyone that Israel is a democracy. This is not how democracies who have checks and balances, free press and invites criticism behaves. Do you think if Putin ruled over Israel in a dictatorship that this war would've panned out the same way? My guess would be you'd have 10 times the amount of deaths and the rest would've been cast out a long time ago.

The main, apt comparisons to Putin wouldn't be Israel and Netenyahu but it would be Hamas imo. Look how Russia since 2016 and it's propaganda machine has targeted western populations with propaganda campaigns and misinformation. But again, this is no surprise given the links between Russia and Iran and Iran and Hamas. Some Ukrainian intelligence guys have even gone as far as to say that Hamas have received direct training from Russia.

So of we're taking about a leader of a country being like, you know what I'm going to kill this journalist because I feel like it makes more sense to me when you're dealing with someone who has complete control over every single facet of that country. Netenyahu has to try and keep Smotrich and Ben Gvir in line let alone opposition leaders and the Israeli press.

The other thing I think people forget, and again this is another brilliant feature of democracy, is that pretty much all the bad things that Israel have done in the past (and a lot of stuff in the present) we only know about because of Israel. Whether it's through them making their historical archives accessible to historians or through institutions in Israel like Haaretz or B'Teselem etc. I'll tell you where you won't see that, any other country in the region or Russia.

And you know what, if it turns out Israel is conducting a genocide it will again largely be Israeli forces that will make people aware of that and bring an end to it (obviously my position is that is not the case)

I was referring to Netanyahu, as opposed to Israel, and I'm always careful to make a distinction between him and his far right Govt and Israel. Yes officially they represent the state of Israel but it's widely suggested that he gained power illegally through corruption although he seems reluctant to let the Israeli judicial system give a ruling on that. I also cited one example of a 'middle finger attack' and didn't liken Netanyahu to Putin in a wider sense although I do believe they are both pursuing an illegal expansionist policy under the guise of something else.

FWIW, of these two wars, Zelensky's Govt is the only one I support. I think Hamas are cowardly scum who have committed some truly abhorrent acts which is why I am all for their elimination. I think Putin and Netanyahu are both power hungry war mongers pursuing an illegal border expansionist policy. Experienced diplomats have said that a two state solution is the only way to avoid a forever war but it needs leadership in Israel and Palestine to have the will to achieve that. I agree with that but unfortunately I don't see this ending anytime soon which is shame for the hostages, their families and innocent Palestinians caught in the middle.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I was referring to Netanyahu, as opposed to Israel, and I'm always careful to make a distinction between him and his far right Govt and Israel. Yes officially they represent the state of Israel but it's widely suggested that he gained power illegally through corruption although he seems reluctant to let the Israeli judicial system give a ruling on that. I also cited one example of a 'middle finger attack' and didn't liken Netanyahu to Putin in a wider sense although I do believe they are both pursuing an illegal expansionist policy under the guise of something else.

FWIW, of these two wars, Zelensky's Govt is the only one I support. I think Hamas are cowardly scum who have committed some truly abhorrent acts which is why I am all for their elimination. I think Putin and Netanyahu are both power hungry war mongers pursuing an illegal border expansionist policy. Experienced diplomats have said that a two state solution is the only way to avoid a forever war but it needs leadership in Israel and Palestine to have the will to achieve that. I agree with that but unfortunately I don't see this ending anytime soon which is shame for the hostages, their families and innocent Palestinians caught in the middle.

Yeah I largely agree with this. Except I’m more pessimistic in that while I am a 2 state guy I’m not really sure that will be any solution but we live in hope (not that we’re close to that at present sadly - due to both Israeli and Palestinian leadership)

I don’t support the Israeli government per se but I support the state of Israel, its right to exist and its right to defend itself. I respect their democratic institutions, their checks and balances and Israeli culture of criticising the government and, obviously, having elections. I think what gets lost in this is that compared to Ben Gvir and Smotrich, Netenyabu actually seems like a good dude, which says it all. I see Netenyahu the same way I see Trump in that he’s corrupt and his main driver is self interest. Ben gvir and Smotrich are genuinely worrying but even then, even if they were in power they couldn’t get done half the stuff they chat about and that is down to the systems that come along with a democracy.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Fun fact: Ben Gvir is such a psycho that when he was 18 the IDF said they didn’t want him.

 

[General Melchett]

Yeah I largely agree with this. Except I'm more pessimistic in that while I am a 2 state guy I'm not really sure that will be any solution but we live in hope (not that we're close to that at present sadly - due to both Israeli and Palestinian leadership)

I don't support the Israeli government per se but I support the state of Israel, its right to exist and its right to defend itself. I respect their democratic institutions, their checks and balances and Israeli culture of criticising the government and, obviously, having elections. I think what gets lost in this is that compared to Ben Gvir and Smotrich, Netenyabu actually seems like a good dude, which says it all. I see Netenyahu the same way I see Trump in that he's corrupt and his main driver is self interest. Ben gvir and Smotrich are genuinely worrying but even then, even if they were in power they couldn't get done half the stuff they chat about and that is down to the systems that come along with a democracy.

Yeah I largely agree with this. Except I'm not that convinced that Bibi is a swell guy although I accept he's not as bad as the other two. His old man was a historian and like Putin I think he's one of these old school/old man politicians who is obsessed with history and borders and is a bit too willing (for my liking) to sacrifice his own people (soldiers) to 'correct mistakes of the past'. I do appreciate he has to play the tough guy due to the threats that Israel faces in the region but I sometimes think he doesn't get that people outside of Israel can see through his BS. Tony Blair once called him a 24 carat bullshitter but I guess it takes one to know one.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yeah I largely agree with this. Except I'm not that convinced that Bibi is a swell guy although I accept he's not as bad as the other two. His old man was a historian and like Putin I think he's one of these old school/old man politicians who is obsessed with history and borders and is a bit too willing (for my liking) to sacrifice his own people (soldiers) to 'correct mistakes of the past'. I do appreciate he has to play the tough guy due to the threats that Israel faces in the region but I sometimes think he doesn't get that people outside of the middle east can see through his BS. Tony Blair once called him a 24 carat bullshitter but I guess it takes one to know one.

Oh yeah for sure, he's a **** (a dangerous one at that) as Trump is. I guess if I was to think of a comparison it would be like if Trump decided to appoint Nick Fuentes or some KKK wizard (lol) or whatever the **** into the cabinet. Mind you he's not far off so maybe not the best comparison. Ha ha.

I should say that while Netenyahu and Likud aren't anywhere near as bad as Smotich's Regious Zionist Party and Ben-Gvir's "Jewish Power" (**** me clue is in the name) it's not like there is no ideological link that Netenyahu doesn't share it's just that their motivations or priorities are different. Either way it's all completely ****** obviously but I just hope that, and have some degree of faith, that given the culture that true democracies promotes is to be self critical and we don't see it but I'm pretty sure there is lots of debate going on in Israel and especially given their PR system that a compromise will be reached and we can put an end to this phase of war and countdown till the next one.

 

[odw26]

snip

I think the government are in a really difficult position at the moment when it comes to things like this, because successive governments have either generally ignored the issues surrounding immigration, or kicked the can down the road, and it's rearing it's ugly head once again. Whether that's because they view it as a genuine political minefield or because it's a convenient distraction technique is another topic. Because of this, I think they're pretty much damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Do they release information about perpetrators which could lead to very dangerous consequences- riots, targeted attacks, vigilantism, etc? Or do they withhold information in order to negate the possibility of a violent backlash, which only leads to speculation and affirms the belief that some have of the government not releasing information that doesn't fit with their supposed "narrative". The Southport riots ultimately happened because of the latter- an information vacuum was created, which was jumped on and filled in by the far right, and we all saw how that played out.

I live in Bournemouth, and recently, and publicly, a self-described "vigilante" group has been established in order to try to keep the town centre safe, as they believe the police are not doing a very good job. I believe those setting the group up have done so with positive intentions- Bournemouth town centre is not a very pleasant place to walk through during the day, much less so at night. As such, there's been a lot of public support for this group. For the record, I did walk through the town centre on Friday night, and I saw at least four pairs of police officers visibly walking around and interacting positively with the public, so I don't agree with the suggestion the police aren't doing their job. However, I think it's very obvious that this is only going to go in one direction, and that it will end with someone getting assaulted, or much worse, for the colour of their skin. It's such a dangerous position we're now in where people think this sort of thing is acceptable that I don't necessarily think the government are overreacting by placing large sentences on people for rioting, or stirring up misinformation. However, for this to be an effective response, it does also require the government to tackle the issues which are causing genuine distress to their public, otherwise we will continue to see dissent, phrases thrown around like "two-tier policing", etc, and dangerous overreaction to events.