A Political Thread pt. 2

[Tomma235]

I don't think Farage has ever been anti-managed immigration. My mother arrived in this country from the Commonwealth on a ship in 1957. She spent 30+ years workng in NHS.

What increasingly is causing great issue with a growing majority of the population in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales is mass illegal immigration of unidentified young men from culture that do not share common values with existing taxpaying residents.

The Governments that have allowed and encouraged this policy have a lot to answer to these people. They need to explain their motivations and how this benefits United Kingdom.

Is that what you mean Tomma?

Farage is anti migration of any kind and even in favour of the ludicrous remigration. You've fallen for the standard dog whistle. While I accept that over recent years immigration is a definite problem that needs addressing, it's not the few arriving on boats that is the issue.

And if you were a business leader which CV would you prefer "I've got a degree in media studies and if you offer a 3 day week and £50k I'll think about it" or "my life was s*** so I decided to do something about it. I dragged my sorry a** across 2 continents to try to improve my lot"? People keep mentioning these are fit, fighting age males so why is the obvious being ignored?

 

[dirty harry]

Farage is anti migration of any kind and even in favour of the ludicrous remigration. You've fallen for the standard dog whistle. While I accept that over recent years immigration is a definite problem that needs addressing, it's not the few arriving on boats that is the issue.

And if you were a business leader which CV would you prefer "I've got a degree in media studies and if you offer a 3 day week and £50k I'll think about it" or "my life was s*** so I decided to do something about it. I dragged my sorry a** across 2 continents to try to improve my lot"? People keep mentioning these are fit, fighting age males so why is the obvious being ignored?

If Farage was anti immigration of any kjnd, why does he keep marrying them?

Whats he up to now, 3, Irish, German and French?

 

[Tomma235]

If Farage was anti immigration of any kjnd, why does he keep marrying them?

Whats he up to now, 3, Irish, German and French?

Hoping for a passport? Richer than him?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Hoping for a passport? Richer than him?

Even more obvious than that, what about he’s just a hypocrite. Or what about the women he marries shares his views. It’s the classic, how can I be racist, I have a black friend.

It’s the exact same defence I saw a AfD member repeat over and over again along with other unhinged people that believe in things like the Kalergi Plan.

 

[Tomma235]

Even more obvious than that, what about he’s just a hypocrite. Or what about the women he marries shares his views. It’s the classic, how can I be racist, I have a black friend.

It’s the exact same defence I saw a AfD member repeat over and over again along with other unhinged people that believe in things like the Kalergi Plan.

If nothing else I have to admire your determination to mention the Kalergi plan at least once a day.

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Rayner feels like a PR disaster despite being cleared of wrongdoing/eventually paying the tax, and despite whether you think she'd be good in the role

Streeting as Defence Sec is the worst one though

TBF, any labour appointment is a PR nightmare if the press decide to make mountains out of molehills again.
I mean - Ed Milliband lost an election because he ate a bacon sandwich a bit weirdly

 

[Tomma235]

TBF, any labour appointment is a PR nightmare if the press decide to make mountains out of molehills again

The Streeting appointment is the only one that really puzzles me. I don't understand what he can offer to Defence that others such as leaving Jarvis in place or maybe Al Cairns

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Al Cairns

Absolutely should've been, imo - maybe they don't think he's been in politics long enough? But then he's held two different Minister positions, it's not like he's some no name backbencher

Realistically Streeting has been rewarded for twisting the knife in Starmer, political acumen/defence knowhow hasn't factored into it - hopefully Cairns gets a minister role again, we need people who actually know the realities of the situations the departments are actually facing

 

[Tomma235]

Absolutely should've been, imo - maybe they don't think he's been in politics long enough? But then he's held two different Minister positions, it's not like he's some no name backbencher

Realistically Streeting has been rewarded for twisting the knife in Starmer, political acumen/defence knowhow hasn't factored into it - hopefully Cairns gets a minister role again, we need people who actually know the realities of the situations the departments are actually facing

Agreed. Not necessarily across all departments but certainly in Defence experience of being in combat on the ground is helpful. I wouldn't expect Sec of State for DWP to have been on benefits for example

 

[Saintjay]

The Streeting appointment is the only one that really puzzles me. I don't understand what he can offer to Defence that others such as leaving Jarvis in place or maybe Al Cairns

On that basis you could give Justice Sec to Louise Haigh. She knows the court system.

Chancellor to Angela Rayner, knows her way around taxes.

 

[Tomma235]

On that basis you could give Justice Sec to Louise Haigh. She knows the court system.

Chancellor to Angela Rayner, knows her way around taxes.

I know it doesn't stand up well as a theory. The main two I'd say are Defence and Health where having some ground level experience would be helpful

 

[dirty harry]

Hoping for a passport? Richer than him?

Hes hoping? Theyre richer?

Seems to me Farage is doing his utmost to build EU relations, one woman at a time hahaha

 

[dirty harry]

On a serious note, is Burnham making similar moves to Starmer, there are some new, and some previous liabilities here, all waiting to blow up in his face and make his position untenable.

Im not going to get straight onto his back, Rayner and Haigh, maybe Midgely are mistakes IMO, but i think his biggest issue from the off will be to combat the calls for a GE.

Polls are showing a 'Burnham bounce' but i think thats probably a bit more of a 'no Kier bounce' so he may be tempted, all parties are in this stage of calling for a GE without really wanting one, or not calling for one but tempted to call for one.

 

[ChicagoKid]

On a serious note, is Burnham making similar moves to Starmer, there are some new, and some previous liabilities here, all waiting to blow up in his face and make his position untenable.

Im not going to get straight onto his back, Rayner and Haigh, maybe Midgely are mistakes IMO, but i think his biggest issue from the off will be to combat the calls for a GE.

Polls are showing a 'Burnham bounce' but i think thats probably a bit more of a 'no Kier bounce' so he may be tempted, all parties are in this stage of calling for a GE without really wanting one, or not calling for one but tempted to call for one.

Bet under for his tenure.

 

[Tomma235]

On a serious note, is Burnham making similar moves to Starmer, there are some new, and some previous liabilities here, all waiting to blow up in his face and make his position untenable.

Im not going to get straight onto his back, Rayner and Haigh, maybe Midgely are mistakes IMO, but i think his biggest issue from the off will be to combat the calls for a GE.

Polls are showing a 'Burnham bounce' but i think thats probably a bit more of a 'no Kier bounce' so he may be tempted, all parties are in this stage of calling for a GE without really wanting one, or not calling for one but tempted to call for one.

Rayner is definitely a mistake. No case to answer over tax but the public expect politicians to wear a hair shirt for a while and go overboard with contrition. She hasn't done that. With Haigh he had to do something out of loyalty and although it's a Cabinet post with an important sounding title it is only as powerful as the PM allows it to be.
Regarding a GE, a simple statement "we are concentrating on running the country and doing the best for the people" and then say nothing, absolutely nothing, if it comes up again.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Rayner is definitely a mistake. No case to answer over tax but the public expect politicians to wear a hair shirt for a while and go overboard with contrition. She hasn't done that. With Haigh he had to do something out of loyalty and although it's a Cabinet post with an important sounding title it is only as powerful as the PM allows it to be.
Regarding a GE, a simple statement "we are concentrating on running the country and doing the best for the people" and then say nothing, absolutely nothing, if it comes up again.

Although I imagine many people are thoroughly fed up with governments saying they are "getting on with the job" after the Tories repeated it ad nauseum under Sunak as a way to avoid answering anything.

 

[Tomma235]

Although I imagine many people are thoroughly fed up with governments saying they are "getting on with the job" after the Tories repeated it ad nauseum under Sunak as a way to avoid answering anything.

Possibly but that's why the second part is so important. Don't keep repeating it, say it once and then ignore the question.

 

[dirty harry]

Possibly but that's why the second part is so important. Don't keep repeating it, say it once and then ignore the question.

Thatll just make the noise increase...

Theyd need to tackle it head on, infact the best play might be to bluff, Farage and most others i dont think actually want a GE!

 

[Tomma235]

Thatll just make the noise increase...

Theyd need to tackle it head on, infact the best play might be to bluff, Farage and most others i dont think actually want a GE!

It doesn't though. Farage may ask again, he may even come up with the usual stuff about abusing democracy but so long as you don't respond the public goes "booorrriiingggg" and the conversation moves on. The Blair government were incredibly good at this, if it wasn't their core message,rebut and move on. That way you own the news cycle and you can fill it with good stuff like "look we've just cut your energy bill, one day in and we're doing stuff for you"

 

[dirty harry]

It doesn't though. Farage may ask again, he may even come up with the usual stuff about abusing democracy but so long as you don't respond the public goes "booorrriiingggg" and the conversation moves on. The Blair government were incredibly good at this, if it wasn't their core message,rebut and move on. That way you own the news cycle and you can fill it with good stuff like "look we've just cut your energy bill, one day in and we're doing stuff for you"

Im not sure you have every visited the UK, good news cycles lol.

But seriously your assuming Farage wants a GE, i dont think he does, polls are showing him at best coasting, noone has the energy or dog for another fight.

 

[Tomma235]

Im not sure you have every visited the UK, good news cycles lol.

But seriously your assuming Farage wants a GE, i dont think he does, polls are showing him at best coasting, noone has the energy or dog for another fight.

I worked alongside SPADs in the Blair years, you'd be stunned by how much work is put into the news cycle. Admittedly it's not as easy to control now but No 10 still has the power to dominate it if it chooses to.

I don't think Farage can help himself, he doesn't want an election but he firmly believes Burnham won't call one. Bit like Remain supporters not voting because no country would be stupid enough to vote for Brexit.

 

[dirty harry]

I worked alongside SPADs in the Blair years, you'd be stunned by how much work is put into the news cycle. Admittedly it's not as easy to control now but No 10 still has the power to dominate it if it chooses to.

I don't think Farage can help himself, he doesn't want an election but he firmly believes Burnham won't call one. Bit like Remain supporters not voting because no country would be stupid enough to vote for Brexit.

The Blair years were clearly on a different time lol

Remain voters not voting? Wouldnt that not make them remain voters by definition hahaha?

I think your right, we are in a cat and mouse game, noone knpw where to lay their chips until someone else does, itll take someone to speak up first for the rest to follow, like the EU chanting 'send them back'

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Last time King Charles said "Andy Burnham" he was telling his broither to get rid of some photos

 

[Reiser99]

VAT cut to energy bills seems like sticking plaster.

Saving the average household £45 a year ain't much. Supposedly, will help others more. However, it can't be reduced further and debatable if it's even funded properly.

 

[Tomma235]

VAT cut to energy bills seems like sticking plaster.

Saving the average household £45 a year ain't much. Supposedly, will help others more. However, it can't be reduced further and debatable if it's even funded properly.

There aren't many things that can just be done quickly. Saving households £45 within your first 24 hours is a start.

 

[Reiser99]

There aren't many things that can just be done quickly. Saving households £45 within your first 24 hours is a start.

As long as it's funded. I feel like if it was as simple as that then it would have been done under Starmer.

I also feel that while the digital ID was not the full proof solution, the UK system for taxing, renewing car license etc... is so outdated and investing in a modern system would save money long term.

I get you can't do everything at once, but many issues are caused by sticking plaster policies that just kick the can down the road. Just look at social care. I'm all for helping people, but reform also needs to be looked at long term.

I am also very aware of how fickle the electorate is, but somehow politicians need to navigate that to bring lasting change or this cycle will just keep going.

 

[Tomma235]

As long as it's funded. I feel like if it was as simple as that then it would have been done under Starmer.

I also feel that while the digital ID was not the full proof solution, the UK system for taxing, renewing car license etc... is so outdated and investing in a modern system would save money long term.

I get you can't do everything at once, but many issues are caused by sticking plaster policies that just kick the can down the road. Just look at social care. I'm all for helping people, but reform also needs to be looked at long term.

I am also very aware of how fickle the electorate is, but somehow politicians need to navigate that to bring lasting change or this cycle will just keep going.

Absolutely. He's got some hard calls to make and I really hope he uses his majority to make them. At the moment he's making all the right noises but then they all do. I have ideas for him: fully means tested child benefit; means tested but tapered pensions; PIP only for physical disability, all other disabilities independently assessed. I've saved a bob or two there. Now increase the personal allowance and get people spending again and the economy will grow

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

As long as it's funded. I feel like if it was as simple as that then it would have been done under Starmer.

I also feel that while the digital ID was not the full proof solution, the UK system for taxing, renewing car license etc... is so outdated and investing in a modern system would save money long term.

I get you can't do everything at once, but many issues are caused by sticking plaster policies that just kick the can down the road. Just look at social care. I'm all for helping people, but reform also needs to be looked at long term.

I am also very aware of how fickle the electorate is, but somehow politicians need to navigate that to bring lasting change or this cycle will just keep going.

Particularly with the heavy rotation of PMs and cabinets, long term thinking has just gone out the window at a time we need it most.

 

[dirty harry]

Absolutely. He's got some hard calls to make and I really hope he uses his majority to make them. At the moment he's making all the right noises but then they all do. I have ideas for him: fully means tested child benefit; means tested but tapered pensions; PIP only for physical disability, all other disabilities independently assessed. I've saved a bob or two there. Now increase the personal allowance and get people spending again and the economy will grow

You might have hypothetical savings, but you might have also just lost your job within 24 hours...

 

[Tomma235]

You might have hypothetical savings, but you might have also just lost your job within 24 hours...

The backbenchers need to know who's in charge. If they don't like it, a simple email: Dear colleague, there is a GE in 6 weeks, enjoy your holiday. Yours Andy.

The problems this country faces need a huge majority and it needs MPs to stop p***ing about. I'm a fan of Labour but it's time for the centre left to stand up and govern