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Good point. It just ****** me off when some eejit has a rant about Scottish politics when he's obvioulsy got his opinions from the tabloid media and his mates at Tory Central. As for defending Jim, Murphy, he's possibly the most disingenuous leader Scottish labour has ever had. Say what you like about prescott, he didn't pack up and run when he got hit with an egg. Smurphy probably calimed the dry cleaning on your taxes too.

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IMHO the SNP victory in Scotland has given big Dave a bigger advantage than many would imagine.

If I am correct (big if) then SNP want larger say in Scotlands affairs (fair enough).

Trade off by big Dave is English votes for English laws.

Answer much bigger majority for the Conservatives in the commons.

Not Cameron's biggest fan but he played Labour in a political master stroke in Scotland over the referendum by getting Labour to support the union.

Yup. England bought the EVEL lie hook, line and sinker.
 
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You know, I am not a fan of the current policies in the country at the moment...and I dream of an independent Wales...but the SNP and Plaid are bonkers.
 
Good point. It just ****** me off when some eejit has a rant about Scottish politics when he's obvioulsy got his opinions from the tabloid media and his mates at Tory Central. As for defending Jim, Murphy, he's possibly the most disingenuous leader Scottish labour has ever had. Say what you like about prescott, he didn't pack up and run when he got hit with an egg. Smurphy probably calimed the dry cleaning on your taxes too.

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Yup. England bought the EVEL lie hook, line and sinker.

Arguably, so did Scotland.

If I'm right Sturgeons claims on influencing Westminster could be very short lived, although of course the long term aims would have been achieved.
 
Arguably, so did Scotland.

If I'm right Sturgeons claims on influencing Westminster could be very short lived, although of course the long term aims would have been achieved.

I disagree. If Milliband hadn't been so self-destructive, things could have been so different. Scotland knew exactly what it wanted, and the SNP played it smart. Whether others believe it or not, Scottish voters are vastly more engaged than the rest of the UK. This is borne out by turnouts at both the referendum (85%) and the General Election (71%). That's because we actually care. Labour's demise was brought about by their absolute inability to turn away from the parody of themselves they've become. Murphy prattled endlessly about social justice, spending the Mansion tax on the Scottish NHS, and other hare-brained schemes, none of which was believed. His past record ensured that. The man's a political joke.

Meanwhile, the LibDems abandonment of the principles they claim to hold so dear made sure they were wiped out. As for the Tories, well, here in Scotland, we don't believe in turkeys voting for Christmas. So, England, and I choose my words carefully, got exactly what it deserved because it listened to the media and not the politicians.
 
I disagree. If Milliband hadn't been so self-destructive, things could have been so different. Scotland knew exactly what it wanted, and the SNP played it smart. Whether others believe it or not, Scottish voters are vastly more engaged than the rest of the UK. This is borne out by turnouts at both the referendum (85%) and the General Election (71%). That's because we actually care. Labour's demise was brought about by their absolute inability to turn away from the parody of themselves they've become. Murphy prattled endlessly about social justice, spending the Mansion tax on the Scottish NHS, and other hare-brained schemes, none of which was believed. His past record ensured that. The man's a political joke.

Meanwhile, the LibDems abandonment of the principles they claim to hold so dear made sure they were wiped out. As for the Tories, well, here in Scotland, we don't believe in turkeys voting for Christmas. So, England, and I choose my words carefully, got exactly what it deserved because it listened to the media and not the politicians.

When you say got what we deserved do you mean we didn't end up with a left wing government headed up by milliband and the 3 witches of eastwick who have borrowed billions propping an inefficient public sector to keep the trade unions happy? Glad I voted conservative now.
 
Meanwhile, the LibDems abandonment of the principles they claim to hold so dear made sure they were wiped out. As for the Tories, well, here in Scotland, we don't believe in turkeys voting for Christmas. So, England, and I choose my words carefully, got exactly what it deserved because it listened to the media and not the politicians.

I could not disagree more on the media statement there were very few newspapers openly pushing for the conservatives, the BBC quite frankly, was an absolute disgrace, openly biased to the left.

As for listening to the politicians, we are spoon fed spun and rehearsed bull with no direct answers to direct questions.

I think Labour lost because they were offering nothing to counter what the Conservatives were offering, all the Conservatives had to do was offer a status quo. That an the fact that Milliband is/was un-electable, not one person I know, even hardcore Labour men didn't trust him

Either as a result of luck or planning they had brought the beginning of the end of recession got moving on the countries debt etc. etc People are seeing light at the end of the tunnel and the Cons played to it.

Anyway, bottom line is simple, whether we like it or not, the country spoke and the result is what is is.
 
I could not disagree more on the media statement there were very few newspapers openly pushing for the conservatives, the BBC quite frankly, was an absolute disgrace, openly biased to the left.

Sorry, but this is factually inaccurate.

The Financial Times, Times, Telegraph, Independent, Mail, Sun and Evening Standard all backed the Tories/coalition. Only the Guardian and Mirror backed Labour.

As for the actual tone of the support - it mightn't have been enthusiastic, but it was strong and pervasive. Both the Telegraph and Mail in particular hammered home that Tory-UKIP waverers should vote Tory in the closing weeks. The Sun was more anti-Labour than pro-Tory, but there we go.

In general, the British print media veers right. That's a simple fact. There are some waverers in the middle and in this election all of them went with continuation. That is my opinion as someone who monitors the media for a living.


But I disagree that the result came due to media pressure and not listening to the politicians. Ed Miliband spent most of the five years with nothing to say and didn't really change from that during the election period. I'm not surprised that the Scots didn't vote for him and I'm not surprised that the English didn't vote for him either.
 
Yeah but I don't pay a license fee on pain of prison for the mirror or mail and there is no way you can say the independent is pro Tory and you missed the metro and observer both of whom are left leaning
 
Yeah but I don't pay a license fee on pain of prison for the mirror or mail and there is no way you can say the independent is pro Tory and you missed the metro and observer both of whom are left leaning

The Observer is merely the Guardian on Sunday; the Metro also supported the Tories and, besides, I was talking about newspapers, not free toilet paper with lots of ink on it.

The Independent was wishy-washy but it's endorsement was for the current coalition, albeit more Lib Dem leaning.
 
Sorry, but this is factually inaccurate.

The Financial Times, Times, Telegraph, Independent, Mail, Sun and Evening Standard all backed the Tories/coalition. Only the Guardian and Mirror backed Labour.

As for the actual tone of the support - it mightn't have been enthusiastic, but it was strong and pervasive. Both the Telegraph and Mail in particular hammered home that Tory-UKIP waverers should vote Tory in the closing weeks. The Sun was more anti-Labour than pro-Tory, but there we go.

In general, the British print media veers right. That's a simple fact. There are some waverers in the middle and in this election all of them went with continuation. That is my opinion as someone who monitors the media for a living.


But I disagree that the result came due to media pressure and not listening to the politicians. Ed Miliband spent most of the five years with nothing to say and didn't really change from that during the election period. I'm not surprised that the Scots didn't vote for him and I'm not surprised that the English didn't vote for him either.


Indeed. The bulk of the media and all of the major parties talked incessantly about a push for a second referendum. The only ones who didn't were the SNP. That's because we're adult enough to know, although we still want indpendence, this was a General Election. The other issue constantly referred to was a possible coalition between the SNP and Labour. Nicola Sturgeon, from the very outset, unequivocably ruled this option out. Milliband's insistence that he would rather see the Tories in power than do any sort of deal with the SNP (now the third biggest party in Parliament) was tantamount to political suicide. What kind of leader says something so palpably stupid? The headstone didn't help either.

Now, Tallshort, your last post rings like something from the McCarthy era. The Labour Party is far from left wing and certainly doesn't espouse any real socialist principles. Get real.
 
No the Labour party wasn't left wing under new Labour but has swung back under the two eds as most political commentators have said. I voted for Labour in 97 no way was I going to vote for them this time.
 
Indeed. The bulk of the media and all of the major parties talked incessantly about a push for a second referendum. The only ones who didn't were the SNP. That's because we're adult enough to know, although we still want indpendence, this was a General Election. The other issue constantly referred to was a possible coalition between the SNP and Labour. Nicola Sturgeon, from the very outset, unequivocably ruled this option out. Milliband's insistence that he would rather see the Tories in power than do any sort of deal with the SNP (now the third biggest party in Parliament) was tantamount to political suicide. What kind of leader says something so palpably stupid? The headstone didn't help either.

Now, Tallshort, your last post rings like something from the McCarthy era. The Labour Party is far from left wing and certainly doesn't espouse any real socialist principles. Get real.

I cannot say the quotes I saw printed in every manner of media outlet (including the Scottish press) were what I'd call 'unequivocally ruling out' a second referendum; I saw deliberate ambiguity.


It was political suicide, but then so would have been taking SNP support. Andrew Marr wrote a piece of very persuasive analysis in the New Statesman shortly after the election looking at how everyone got led into wrong expectations and who was actually telling the truth. He said that retrospectively the men and women on the street were the best bellweather and that large numbers of people came up to him expressing a fear of the SNP anywhere near Downing Street. I can relate to that; I do not want a party that quite explicitly does not have the best interests of my country on their mind involved in running my country. I don't think I'm falling for media spin there, I think I'm simply stating the obvious. Talking about a formal coalition with the SNP would have been suicide south of the border.

The real act of political suicide, from beginning to end, was to allow the Conservatives to dictate national opinion on Labour's economic competence. The rest was cream piping on that giant turd. Here's hoping Labour actually pick a leader who's competent this time.
 
The real act of political suicide, from beginning to end, was to allow the Conservatives to dictate national opinion on Labour's economic competence. The rest was cream piping on that giant turd. Here's hoping Labour actually pick a leader who's competent this time.

My question at this point has to be who? None of the potentials exactly jump out at you do they? especially since Umunna pulled out.
 
My question at this point has to be who? None of the potentials exactly jump out at you do they? especially since Umunna pulled out.

No one has an untainted proven track record, nope. They'll be looking for someone who grows in the job and if they don't grow in two years they'll be fired out of a cannon into the sun with someone else put in their place.
 
Has anybody been keeping up with the news surrounding Bahar Mustafa? I find it really disturbing, and a good example of 'Queer rights', 'Womans rights' and 'Ethnic rights' crossing the boarder into bigotry, judgement and hate speech. Those rights should be upheld and heard, but it should never serve as a veil to hide behind in order to incite violence and division, even if you claim you meant it in a jokey way once you get called out. “But we have it worse†is not an excuse. Becoming blind will not help a blind man see. I find that very cowardly. There seems to be a perception out there that only white men can be guilty of racism, and only men in general guilty of sexism.

A quote from Bahar Mustafa “I, as an ethnic minority woman, cannot be racist or sexist towards white men, because racism and sexism describe structures of privilege based on race and gender,â€

Even if that was how it's defined, which it's not, it still wouldn't work as a proposition. Even some of the most hardcore feminists acknowledge (depending which country you hail from) the child custody arrangements and legal assumptions in existence are completely structured against men. As somebody who has done a little bit of work in the area of Child Support payments, let me assure you there are just as many mothers who want nothing to do with their child. This is just one example out of MANY within Family Law. If people like Bahar think that there aren't structures in favor of woman based on their gender then they have either not researched the facts or they are just in denial.

But back to her actions, excluding white men from attending and engaging with a student union meeting for ethnic people is something all of society should be concerned about. What kind of messages are being spouted? What kind of misinformation is this misguided person feeding to other impressionable students? And how is hashtagging Kill all White Men acceptable? She might see it as a cute in-joke, but it only takes one who doesn't. Especially when you're operating inside of a University where young adult's brains have not fully developed.

What disgusts me even more is how left wing radicals are peddling this crap as well. They clearly come at it from a much different perspective than I do, using shock and irony as their approach. "Doesn't feel so good does it!?" is not a wise approach to take - it just encourages further venomous responses and discourages unity. African-American studies lecturer Dr Linda Chavers states

“for some reason nuance goes out the door when a non-white person dares to demonstrate intelligence and play with language. It's crazy the level of vitriol that people of colour face for emoting anything besides graceful quiet graceful sorrow. “

Utter rubbish. When we saw Sigma Alpha Epsilon, a United States fraternity at an Oklahoma University chanted racist words there was outrage, on all sides about it. White and blacks came together to protest and express outrage, acted as one for change and consequences. That group of students were exposed for being the type of people they are. Not once was this acknowledged as being okay from people who heard about it. But in Bahar's case, it seems like this kind of bigotry from left wing commentators, media and academics is being pushed as a way to punish all people of the same skin colour just because there is a concentration of racism in certain enclaves, or for the actions of our ancestors. Nobody is saying non-whites have to be sad, quiet and depressed about the many injustices that they experience - and indeed that's not what we have seen happen in incidents around the world. There should be consequences for that sort of hatred, especially in professional environments where everyone should be welcomed such as the work place, universities, just anywhere in general tbh.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ing-the-hashtag-killallwhitemen-10266952.html - a sympathizer for Bahar who totally missed the point, actually many points.
 
excluding white men from attending and engaging with a student union meeting for ethnic people is something all of society should be concerned about. What kind of messages are being spouted? What kind of misinformation is this misguided person feeding to other impressionable students? And how is hashtagging Kill all White Men acceptable?

You are not wrong. In America it is just as bad, perhaps worse. The world is going to hell with all these double-standards.
 
The biggest issue surrounding people like this is instead 9 calm reasoned debate people loose their **** and start doing the very thing they are moaning and accusing others about. This forum sees it and pretty much gamergate was the same stupid thing

The sad thing is reasonable people on both sides can barely speak through the **** storm.
 
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