Aaron Smith's Aerial Adventure

[TRF_heineken]

Taking it to the extreme is a simple but powerful tool to test an argument. Lets do that for a second: if say, Dan Carter got filmed jaywalking before the world cup final in a place where that was illegal, would you be ok with him being suspended for that game?
Same principle, just a more extreme example. Lets see how consistent we are with our answers.

Yes, I would be more than okay with him being suspended for that game. If he broke the law, he must suffer the consequences, if the team has protocols in place, and a player does something in his personal capacity, that affects those protocols as well as the morale of the team, I'm more than okay with him being suspended.

That was my understanding of it - not about morals so must as what amounts to breaking a contract or sorts.

You might also argue that he's going to struggle to focus when he knows what awaits on his return home.

But Morality plays a vital role in law, society and opinion. I have equal amount of disdain for A Smith as I have for my uncle's ex-wife who also comitted adultery, and I will have the same feelings for a complete stranger who does the same.

 

[die_mole]

I don't understand why anyone reacts so badly to this. The only person this really should outrage is Smith's partner, and maybe the NZRU should slap him on the wrist for indiscretion in AB uniform.

Otherwise it's no body elses damn business. What has got me is the number of feminist outlets who claim this incident is a sordid part of rugby culture - and yet if it was a female athlete they would accuse the media of 'slut shaming'. Bunch of hypocrites.

To me the idea that sports people need to act to a higher standard than others because they are role models, is laughable.

What type of backward feminist is upset by this. Woman had sex in a bathroom on her own accord. That sounds like sexual empowerment to me.

 

[ALJ]

But Morality plays a vital role in law, society and opinion. I have equal amount of disdain for A Smith as I have for my uncle's ex-wife who also comitted adultery, and I will have the same feelings for a complete stranger who does the same.

Yes of course but that wasn't really my point.
What I meant was that if there's a code of conduct, then that takes personal views on morality (which, as this thread proves, will always differ from person to person) out of the equation.
In other words, here's the behavioural standard you signed up to, you failed to live up to that standard, therefore you must be censured, regardless of what me or the bloke next to me thinks of your actions.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yes of course but that wasn't really my point.
What I meant was that if there's a code of conduct, then that takes personal views on morality (which, as this thread proves, will always differ from person to person) out of the equation.
In other words, here's the behavioural standard you signed up to, you failed to live up to that standard, therefore you must be censured, regardless of what me or the bloke next to me thinks of your actions.

Fair enough, and I think that is exactly what happened. Hansen sent him straight home.

I'm just wondering what the rest of the team mates are saying about this, and what their opinion is on the matter.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

In other words, here's the behavioural standard you signed up to, you failed to live up to that standard, therefore you must be censured, regardless of what me or the bloke next to me thinks of your actions.

Let me change the question for a second: assume the ABs staff found out about the incident but no one else did and they managed to keep it quiet. Let's take it up a notch: assume Smith was essential to the ABs success in the upcoming, assume critical, game.
Do you believe he would have been suspended?
I don't.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I think a ban for Aaron is appropriate given that he was in AB kit and with the squad (i.e. he was still representing the squad). I'd be concerned if a national team didn't have a code of conduct that encompassed bringing the team into disrepute with your conduct. Plus, while this forum might be filled with hairy arsed blokes, the sport is constantly looking to broaden its appeal to women & kids and not just "lad culture".

With all that said I'd take Smith any day over the unnamed Chief that allegedly committed a sexual assault on an "exotic dancer" or on TJP that was caught on camera lashing out like a kid with both feet and was lucky not to take out a guy's dentures. So yeah, hypocrisy. Twas ever thus.

 

[die_mole]

I think a ban for Aaron is appropriate given that he was in AB kit and with the squad (i.e. he was still representing the squad). I'd be concerned if a national team didn't have a code of conduct that encompassed bringing the team into disrepute with your conduct. Plus, while this forum might be filled with hairy arsed blokes, the sport is constantly looking to broaden its appeal to women & kids and not just "lad culture".

With all that said I'd take Smith any day over the unnamed Chief that allegedly committed a sexual assault on an "exotic dancer" or on TJP that was caught on camera lashing out like a kid with both feet and was lucky not to take out a guy's dentures. So yeah, hypocrisy. Twas ever thus.

i just don't get how this offensive to women or children

 

[McTallshort]

i just don't get how this offensive to women or children

That's because it isn't, some people assume offence for others.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I'm not saying it is necessarily any more offensive to women or children than it is to me. I'm saying it is behaviour that vaste swathes of the population will find deeply inappropriate, immature and not beffiting of someone wearing national colours in their national team sport. It is behaviour that brings a bit of dishonour to the All Blacks and, if it was to become tolerated and spread throughout the team, would almost certainly reduce the number of people willing to shell out their hard earned to watch the sport. I'd imagine women (and by extension their kids) would be the most likely demographic in a fanbase to think there are better ways to spend their time and money than on a bunch of international shaggers.

If Smith wants to play about with things like Tinder and so on behind his partner's back, then fair enough, as long as he does it on his own time and makes even a basic effort to be discreet. If he's doing that in national team colours then there has to be consequences. Add in the element of being in a public place and using a disabled toilet (when presumably neither party was disabled) then you have strong potential for a criminal element. I don't think anyone should be surprised that there are repercussions, albeit mild ones. He's got off lightly.

 

[j'nuh]

Otherwise it's no body elses damn business. What has got me is the number of feminist outlets who claim this incident is a sordid part of rugby culture - and yet if it was a female athlete they would accuse the media of 'slut shaming'. Bunch of hypocrites

Way to shift the goalposts. Feminists calling out slut shaming has always been about the double standards in society where it's okay for a man to be sexually frank and promiscuous, but women are unfairly criticised for it. Aaron Smith isn't being criticised for having sex, it's that (1) he's cheated, and (2) he was caught dogging. The former, while not illegal, is incredibly bad. The latter is illegal and although tbf I can't say I'm too bothered by it, I can see why the sponsors of the All Blacks might be and why it might put Smith in muck.

He and his partner should have privacy, if only out of respect for his partner who is obviously the person who has been wronged in all of this. But it isn't going to make me lose any sleep that he gets a bit of a hard time over this either.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Hansen reportedly checking out D Mackenzie at scrum half in training!???? I wonder if that's him trying to send Aaron a message?

 

[McTallshort]

He and his partner should have privacy, if only out of respect for his partner who is obviously the person who has been wronged in all of this.

Well you don't know that. She could be cheating on him, they could have an open relationship, they could even be separated. No one knows what goes on behind closed doors.

I worked with a lady once who had a real ****** of a husband, always drinking and putting her down. She met someone at work (not me) and started a relationship with him that ended in her leaving her husband and finding a better life for herself. Some of the posters on here would say she's immoral and what she did was wrong but that's frankly rubbish. Her husband was a fool and didn't deserve the marriage he had.

Like I said earlier if he has done something illegal and against the code of conduct for his team then let the appropriate people decide what to do. Otherwise what he did isn't for anyone else to Judge.

 

[smartcooky]

Hansen reportedly checking out D Mackenzie at scrum half in training!???? I wonder if that's him trying to send Aaron a message?

Err no. That was after Smith was set to leave.

McKenzie would only be used if either Perenara or TKB were injured during training just before the test, and there was not enough time to fly out a replacement.

Shag is no fool, he's covering all his bases.

On a related topic, I was listening to an interview on Radio Sport last week (possibly with Grant Fox?). He was saying the All Blacks have a "what will we do if" plan for just about every contingency they can think of, stuff like

A red card in the first 5 minutes
Two yellow cards, in the first five minutes.
Match ending injuries to two openside flankers in quick succession.

etc.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Just one question right or wrong, if your best mate is cheating on his wife or your wifes best mate is cheating on her husband would you go and tell the partner concerned who is not cheating??? probably not!!! if your answer is NO then you can hardly incrimminate AS. This should be dealt with indoors by the AB's.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

On a related topic, I was listening to an interview on Radio Sport last week (possibly with Grant Fox?). He was saying the All Blacks have a "what will we do if" plan for just about every contingency they can think of, stuff like

A red card in the first 5 minutes
Two yellow cards, in the first five minutes.
Match ending injuries to two openside flankers in quick succession.

etc.

Thanks for the insight. Not surprised thou. Most top tier organizations/entities/governments have protocols in place for such things and the ABs appear to be head ans shoulders above the rest in terms of planning, organization, etc.
While i was working in a FMCG company the social media team mentioned the US government (gold standard for this) has a twitter response protocol for pretty much any imaginable and unimaginable scenario. I'm talking from any and every potential natural catastrophe to aliens landing on the capitol to the ***ans challenging the Olympians at mount Olympus.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Doesn't sound like it's necessarily a temporary or fall back measure on McKenzie.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/scrum-half-shift-for-mckenzie/

I just can't believe Hansen is being serious about possibly shifting a player who excelled at fullback this season, where Dagg and B Smith will be 31 & 33 at next RWC and would move him to 9 or 10 where they have great depth and youthful options. It's why I suspected Hansen is playing games with Aaron, but as you say the timing might not fit in with that and I'm simply reading too much into things.

 

[ALJ]

Let me change the question for a second: assume the ABs staff found out about the incident but no one else did and they managed to keep it quiet. Let's take it up a notch: assume Smith was essential to the ABs success in the upcoming, assume critical, game.
Do you believe he would have been suspended?
I don't.

I thought he'd been dropped rather than suspended?

We will never know but I think he'd have been subjected to some sort of censure because if you let something go once then the precedent is set for the future - And you can't really have the whole team sidling off for an airport toilet shag.

Any manager worth his salt has to demonstrate that no man is bigger than the team, otherwise he is lost.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Doesn't sound like it's necessarily a temporary or fall back measure on McKenzie.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/scrum-half-shift-for-mckenzie/

I just can't believe Hansen is being serious about possibly shifting a player who excelled at fullback this season, where Dagg and B Smith will be 31 & 33 at next RWC and would move him to 9 or 10 where they have great depth and youthful options. It's why I suspected Hansen is playing games with Aaron, but as you say the timing might not fit in with that and I'm simply reading too much into things.

I think it's that Hansen doesn't trust someone of McKenzie's size at fullback, which is probably right TBH. He's a very good player, but he doesn't have the height to be able to compete for the high ball. His defence is also an issue. IMO a switch to 9 or 10 makes sense.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I think it's that Hansen doesn't trust someone of McKenzie's size at fullback, which is probably right TBH. He's a very good player, but he doesn't have the height to be able to compete for the high ball. His defence is also an issue. IMO a switch to 9 or 10 makes sense.

Assuming it isn't just wanting to give the ABs some depth at 9 in the event of injury (which it may well be) I think you are probably right on Hansen. I wouldn't agree with that decision if I was him though, the lad is only 21, excelled throughout the SR season and at 5'9" is the same height as Lambie and Halfpenny. He is also only an inch shorter than Stuart Hogg who was voted player of the last 6N (with jumping for high balls arguably a bigger consideration in the NH).

One factor could be the strong suggestions that Cruden is leaving the Chiefs, which would leave the fly half position up for grabs, but that wouldn't explain the talk of scrum half. All a bit mysterious to me.

 

[nickdnz]

Damien McKenzie is fine under the high ball...