All Blacks Tri-nations squad 2011

[donmcdazzle]

Maitland was robbed, as was Cory Jane. If a guy like Dagg can lock in a spot on past performances then how the hell doesn't CJ get the same treatment. Mental.

Slade has obviously been picked based on what they think he can do rather than what he has done.

Great to see Hoeata in there though.

 

[Shaggy]

I'm okay with the squad actually, but i'm wondering what the deal with the injury replacements - are they considered possible starting players until the likes of Woodcock, Dagg, Toeava etc, are fit enough to take an active part in the squad, or are they on standby, and pulled into the squad as/if injuries occur.

If it's the former, those 4 guys are very much still in the frame for the RWC squad, as they'll still get game time in the Tri-nations ... it may serve to put the Cory Jane's/Sivivatu's on notice, and get the best performances out of them.

... a bit surprised that Slade got in ahead of Cruden, as I thought he'd done enough at the end of the season for the Canes to get ahead of Slade.

... got to admit, despite being a Crusaders fan, i haven't been a fan of Andy Ellis or Cory Flynn in the past, but I can see that Ellis is probably in for his kicking game, and in particular, his ability to take control of a game in wet conditions. My main objection to Cory Flynn has been his inability to throw the ball in straight in the lineouts ... something it looked like he'd eliminated from his game this season, until the super rugby final on Saturday. He does seem to be a very strong scrummager, and he does put in a high work rate around the paddock in defense and in the rucks ... but for me, a hooker that can't feed the lineout straight, is like a halfback that can't pass - it's a fundamental skill that they MUST have, so this selection has me a little worried

 

[Steveskiez7]

Quite an underwhelming squad.

 

[SpanishBob]

I miss Jane, a lot, but I honestly don't know who should be out instead.
Guilford, for me, is an amazing player. He deserves the spot; he has earned on the pitch during Super rugby season.

I would have chosen Jane instead of Dagg. Jane has been the most consistent winger for the All Blacks in the last two years.

Great squad though

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Here's the official squad:-

BACKS: Mils Muliaina, Hosea Gear, Richard Kahui, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Ma'a Nonu, Dan Carter, Jimmy Cowan, Andy Ellis, Piri Weepu, Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Colin Slade.

FORWARDS: Kieran Read, Richie McCaw, Jerome Kaino, Adam Thomson, Liam Messam, Brad Thorn, Ali Williams, Sam Whitelock, Jarrad Hoeata, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, John Afoa, Corey Flynn, Andrew Hore, Keven Mealamu, Tony Woodcock

Injury replacements: Wyatt Crockett, Cory Jane, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Ben Smith.

There are 29 there, you missed Toeava

 

[William18]

Slade vs Cruden, Elliot vs Flynn and Guildford vs about 10 others are the only controversial calls to be honest. I have never seen an All Blacks squad pick itself in this way in such a long time.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Slade vs Cruden, Elliot vs Flynn and Guildford vs about 10 others are the only controversial calls to be honest. I have never seen an All Blacks squad pick itself in this way in such a long time.

Kahui wasn't obvious either IMO. Could have been Freuan or Ranger easily. Leaving Vito out is also harsh, he's been more consistent than Kaino, Messam and Thompson

 

[Rhyer]

Kahui wasn't obvious either IMO. Could have been Freuan or Ranger easily. Leaving Vito out is also harsh, he's been more consistent than Kaino, Messam and Thompson

Fruean should go in place of Kahui and Ranger should go in place of Guildford, maybe even Roks. Fruean has the combination with SBW and is generally just much better. Guildford has had a good season but he has many bad points like his inability under the high ball, one-dimensional running and inability to beat a man one on one. If you want a player with a high work rate, look no further than Roks who has been outstanding in this Super 15 in every aspect apart from try scoring. Ranger is also the player who can play from 11-15 with an X-factor so I don't know why he wasn't selected.

Poor squad, really really bad and I think it will get trounced in the World Cup. Woodcock is definitely past his best and question marks were raised last year when he was the weak link in the scrum. Now you have a contender in Wyatt Crockett who has ****** on every other prop in the Super 15 and he isn't selected.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Kahui wasn't obvious either IMO. Could have been Freuan or Ranger easily. Leaving Vito out is also harsh, he's been more consistent than Kaino, Messam and Thompson

Messam has probably been the most consistent player of the whole Super tournament.

 

[Rhyer]

Messam has probably been the most consistent player of the whole Super tournament.

Him and Wyatt Crockett.

Anyone else annoyed about Thomson being in? You should have used Hoeata as a 4/6 player and bring in Matt Todd. Richie Mccaw certainly isn't looking his best and has been rather poor with form this Super 15.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Him and Wyatt Crockett.

Anyone else annoyed about Thomson being in? You should have used Hoeata as a 4/6 player and bring in Matt Todd. Richie Mccaw certainly isn't looking his best and has been rather poor with form this Super 15.

The main problem with McCaw is that he's been injured. People have to remember that the Reds game was only his second back from injury. It may take a couple of games, but that should be all he'll need to find some form.

I'm not sold on Thomson, he gives a way A LOT of penalties. He also seems to play too much as an individual at times (something Guildford appears to do also). I'm not sure if I'd rather a have Vito, Todd or Thomson in the squad...

 

[smartcooky]

Kahui wasn't obvious either IMO. Could have been Freuan or Ranger easily. Leaving Vito out is also harsh, he's been more consistent than Kaino, Messam and Thompson

Kahui was quite an obvious choice actually, as he is a Centre who also plays on the wing. Of his 12 tests, only five have been at Centre, the other seven on the wing; six on the right and the last 20 min of one test on the left. This allowed the selectors to pick only three specialist wingers.

I'm okay with the squad actually, but i'm wondering what the deal with the injury replacements - are they considered possible starting players until the likes of Woodcock, Dagg, Toeava etc, are fit enough to take an active part in the squad, or are they on standby, and pulled into the squad as/if injuries occur.

Almost certainly, Wyatt Crockett will get game time as Woodcock is unlikely to play until the mid August test in South Africa.

 

[SpanishBob]

Fruean should go in place of Kahui and Ranger should go in place of Guildford, maybe even Roks. Fruean has the combination with SBW and is generally just much better. Guildford has had a good season but he has many bad points like his inability under the high ball, one-dimensional running and inability to beat a man one on one. If you want a player with a high work rate, look no further than Roks who has been outstanding in this Super 15 in every aspect apart from try scoring. Ranger is also the player who can play from 11-15 with an X-factor so I don't know why he wasn't selected.

Poor squad, really really bad and I think it will get trounced in the World Cup. Woodcock is definitely past his best and question marks were raised last year when he was the weak link in the scrum. Now you have a contender in Wyatt Crockett who has ****** on every other prop in the Super 15 and he isn't selected.

You must be joking.

 

[Darwin]

What the f-bomb?
Cory 'one of the best wingesr in the world despite really being a fullback' Jane doesn't make the squad?!

As a Cory Jane fan I'm outraged
as a Rugby fan I'm outraged
as a fan of a team that isn't the All Blacks....

Jane may have been one of the best wings in the world... in 2009. He was ok last year, but was hardly a standout. The Jane that has played for the Canes this season has been a poor shadow of that player; he's been making a huge number of uncharacteristic mistakes, and hasn't really looked threatening with the ball in hand. If the squad was picked on current form he would be nowhere near the squad. He may get a chance with the likes of Toeava, Dagg, Gear missing some early games, but he is going to have to improve 100% on his current form if he wants to get a spot in the trinations squad.

Kahui wasn't obvious either IMO. Could have been Freuan or Ranger easily. Leaving Vito out is also harsh, he's been more consistent than Kaino, Messam and Thompson

I think Kahui was always a certainty to make the squad. He has been pretty good over the latter part of the season, and importantly has performed very well for the AB's in the past. Fruean's was never going to be picked as his defense (despite showing some signs of improvement) is still very poor.

Fruean should go in place of Kahui and Ranger should go in place of Guildford, maybe even Roks. Fruean has the combination with SBW and is generally just much better. Guildford has had a good season but he has many bad points like his inability under the high ball, one-dimensional running and inability to beat a man one on one. If you want a player with a high work rate, look no further than Roks who has been outstanding in this Super 15 in every aspect apart from try scoring. Ranger is also the player who can play from 11-15 with an X-factor so I don't know why he wasn't selected.

Guildford is probably the best wing in NZ under the high ball; it is certainly not a weakness in his game! I'm not sure what you mean by one-dimensional running: the strength of Guildford's game this year has been his aware with the ball in hand and ability to link up with other players. His ability to beat a man one on one is probably still the only weakness in his game (though he seems to have improved in this area of the game); I would suggest he has fewer weaknesses than any other wing in NZ rugby.

Poor squad, really really bad and I think it will get trounced in the World Cup. Woodcock is definitely past his best and question marks were raised last year when he was the weak link in the scrum. Now you have a contender in Wyatt Crockett who has ****** on every other prop in the Super 15 and he isn't selected.

What an astounding statement! This is almost exactly the same AB's team that only lost a single game last season, and suddenly it is going to get trounced in the World Cup on home turf?

Overall, as others have mentioned, a largely predictable squad. Slightly surprised to see Slade get the nod over Cruden; I really rate Slade, but I didn't think he had enough rugby under his belt. Not overly worried about Flynn getting the third hooking spot over Elliot; in the end it may come down to who will be the best squad member as they are unlikely to get much playing time. Not surprised at all to see Ellis there; not someone I'd pick myself, but he has the skill set that the AB selectors are after so Mathewson was never going to get a look in. The outside back selections are interesting; Guildford deserves to be there on form (despite a pretty average game in the final), but I thought they would have taken Sivivatu in the main squad. Hopefully Ben Smith gets a chance in the early games so he can force his way into the final RWC squad!

 

[nickdnz]

Agree with most of Rhyer's points. This squad isn't the worst squad I can think of but it's far from its best. My thoughts summed up:

Props: John Afoa, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Tony Woodcock (injury cover Crockett)
Everyone but Tony Woodcock I'm happy with. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Woodcock and he would usually make my RWC squad but not at the expense of the most dominant prop New Zealand's had since Carl Hayman. He has been injured for most of the tornement and his form over the last two years hasn't been fantastic.

Hookers: Kevin Mealamu, Andrew Hore, Corey Flynn
I would have had no problems with this pick up untill last Saturday, where Flynn had a shocker. In a knockout game of that importance, it scares me to think of a Rugby World Cup knockout stage with Flynn throwing. Hika Elliot would have been my pick.

Locks: Brad Thorn, Sam Whitelock, Ali Williams, Jarrad Hoeata
Bit sad to see Chris Jack miss out considering he looked very impressive when he got the chance to play (I think he was much better than Romano who took his spot on the bench) but with that in mind, all of the players named deserved their spot.

Loose Forwards: Jerome Kaino, Adam Thompson, Liam Messam, Kieren Read, Richie McCaw
Very annoying picks. If you are going to bring in a lock that covers blindside, why in the name of christ leave out an extra openside? Every single player named can cover blindside flanker and openside including McCaw. So what does Henry and co do? Ignore Daniel Braid (the guy they convinced to come over from Queensland to back up McCaw) and Matt Todd who is arguably the form openside flanker at the moment. I thought Thompson looked well tired towards the end of the competition, which is understandable considering his form in the first 4-5 games but frankly I'd have picked up Victor Vito or an Openside flanker over him. If this is the squad they take to the RWC, we better pray McCaw doesn't get hurt, because despite what some people think, Thompson has never played well as an openside flanker.

Halfbacks: Piri Weepu, Jimmy Cowan, Andy Ellis
Despite how much I think Ellis is an overrated and underperforming halfback who is consistantly made to look good back a dominant pack, it would be pretty hard to leave him out on form. I think Mathewson is a much better player and offers something different. The strength of Andy Ellis game I'm told is his kicking, but last I checked Weepu is one of the best kickers/goal kickers in the country and Cowan's strength was only his defense and box kicking. We have no out-and-out running halfbacks and I think it may hurt us, especially if Ellis starts.

1st 5/8th: Daniel Carter, Colin Slade
No problems at all. Aaron Cruden is a good player but I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable with him in a RWC final. Slade can run a game well and do the basics well, which for a reserve 1st 5/8th is exactly what you want coming from the bench. It's a bit dubious that he's played so little and gets picked ahead of Cruden but I'm certain it was the right move. Good to see no Stephen Donald.

Centres: Ma'a Nonu, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Richard Kahui
No doubt it's my choice of centres. Robert Fruean, while a really talented player missed several big tackles in the last Crusaders game that I'm sure Kahui wouldn't have. My only gripe is the consistancy that Henry and co. have shown regarding form. There is no doubt Kahui has been mainly picked because of how he has performed in the past for the All Blacks, which is fine except that there are players have have been brilliant for the All Blacks for two or three seasons now that miss out. It doesn't seem right.

Outside Backs: Hosea Gear, Zac Guildford, Mils Muliaina, Israel Dagg, Isaia Toeava (Injury replacements: Ben Smith, Sitivini Sivivatu, Cory Jane)
This is the one that really annoys me. Hosea Gear I'm a huge fan of and I think he has earned his recall. Muliaina is praised for being brillaint but has done sh*t all, all season for the Chiefs and looked good in the 2010 season because he was the only outside back who he would provide ball to. Despite this he's coming on nearly 100 caps, so I can understand why he is in the squad. Isaia Toeava was lethal in the beginning of the Blues season and looked brillaint at fullback, no problem with him. Now Israel Dagg was picked on basically no Super Rugby form but on his form last year. Now as mentioned it's fine to pick players because of their form in recent All Blacks tests, but how can you pick Dagg over Cory Jane. Yes Cory Jane looked average in the Hurricanes but pretty much everyone did. Jane was the best winger in 2009 by a mile and still looked class in 2010 despite being a bit quieter. How he was not picked is a travesty. My final rant is Zac "duck feet" Guildford, who should be no where near this squad. As mentioned, if you want a winger with a massive work rate and doesn't score many tries, pick Joe Rokocoko who has been really good for the Blues in the last half of the competition. He's faster than Guildford, gets past the advantage line unlike Guildord and has more experience than Guildford. How Guildford got a spot over Ben Smith, Sitivini Sivivatu, Cory Jane, Sean Maitland, Joe Rokocko is beyond me. I'd have Lelia Masaga and Kade Poki above Guildford.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I agree with everything you say TRF_nickdnz.
Except for two things:
I don't see why NZ are taking a fourth centre. If you take Nonu, Smith and SBW, you can start two of those (which ones is a totally different topic) and the third one perhaps on the bench. If one of them gets injured, I don't see the need to have a replacement on the bench, if Toeava can play there. So, if Kahui is being taken because he can play wing, I'd rather have Ranger, who is a much better winger (IMO) and who can also cover centre if an asteroid kills two out of the three.

Also, I'd rather have Boric than Hoeata. He's the best line-out option in NZ and that is the only area of the game where the ABs don't dominate their opponents

 

[Sneaki]

Also, I'd rather have Boric than Hoeata. He's the best line-out option in NZ and that is the only area of the game where the ABs don't dominate their opponents.

By the sounds of it Henry really rates Boric, in the interview he seemed to suggest that Boric would have made the squad easily had he been at full fitness. Also I'd argue that Williams is a slightly better line-out option, he's certainly the best at disrupting the opposition and putting pressure on them by stealing throws.

 

[Steveskiez7]

I agree with everything you say TRF_nickdnz.
Except for two things:
I don't see why NZ are taking a fourth centre. If you take Nonu, Smith and SBW, you can start two of those (which ones is a totally different topic) and the third one perhaps on the bench. If one of them gets injured, I don't see the need to have a replacement on the bench, if Toeava can play there. So, if Kahui is being taken because he can play wing, I'd rather have Ranger, who is a much better winger (IMO) and who can also cover centre if an asteroid kills two out of the three.

Also, I'd rather have Boric than Hoeata. He's the best line-out option in NZ and that is the only area of the game where the ABs don't dominate their opponents.

Boric not considered due to an injury, lad.

 

[Aedaphon]

It is slightly puzzling to have Toeava (a full utility back) as well as Kahui as centre cover. I realize Toeava and Muliaina will be battling it out for starting 15 so it may not make sense to have him covering centre as well but between SBW, Nonu and Smith I'm pretty certain 12 and 13 are in safe hands. I actually would have liked to see Macalistair, an old hand who can cover 10, to as another option. Having said that they're all brilliant players who deserve their places on the side (although Muliaina hasn't shown much of his usually great self this year).

The winger decision was always going to be quite controversial given the fact that there were 8 or so brilliant candidates for the position. I'm a bit disappointed Maitland wasn't chosen as between himself and Guildford I think he's played better this season (but lost out due to a late season injury). As they'd already chosen Kahui as a centre/wing cover they absolutely needed a specialist winger and therefore it's not totally shocking Guildford's on the team. Someone who has practised and can consistently link with Sonny Bill will be a great asset to the squad.

 

[Whitewolf]

I'm totally disappointed not to see Cory Jane and Matt Todd.

Toeava is not good enough to play with the All Blacks, he makes too many mistakes while Jane never disappointed with the ABs.
Moreover the team need to have a real back-up of Richie McCaw: Henry should have taken Matt Todd. He was one of the best flanker during the Super 15 and he clearly has the potential.

My choice would be:
Dagg, Toeava, Kahui, Hore out
Jane, Ranger, Maitland, Todd in