All Blacks Watch - Countdown to June

[donmcdazzle]

Yep.

A. SMith and Dagg are pretty much the same story on the same book.
Me? I'm more of a "Off the Beauden Bandwagon" kinda guy...

I'm not on the Beauden bandwagon either, but I'd hardly replace him with Slade.

 

[admartian]

I'm not on the Beauden bandwagon either, but I'd hardly replace him with Slade.

True. But I would with Anscombe.

 

[donmcdazzle]

True. But I would with Anscombe.

Who hasn't played any first five this season?

 

[admartian]

Who hasn't played any first five this season?

Eh - I don't think we need a third first five with a solid Aaron Curden. A bit redundant imo. Plus we can plug Anscombe in there if need be. I'd rather a guy we could possibly use in a real match situation (Anscombe) than a "developmental" guy that we may not use (3rd choice first-five; and he'd be behind Israel Dagg, Piutau, Anscombe etc etc etc in terms of fullback).

(I don't get the the SBW-fying of Barrett. At least SBW had raw physical traits and in the end was dominant in his second season.)

If we have no problems in telling Isaac Ross - who arguably saved the All Black line outs for the tri-nations in his rookie year - to **** of and "develop"; I'm sure we could do the same for Beauden Barrett.

 

[Larksea]

Eh - I don't think we need a third first five with a solid Aaron Curden. A bit redundant imo. Plus we can plug Anscombe in there if need be. I'd rather a guy we could possibly use in a real match situation (Anscombe) than a "developmental" guy that we may not use (3rd choice first-five; and he'd be behind Israel Dagg, Piutau, Anscombe etc etc etc in terms of fullback).

(I don't get the the SBW-fying of Barrett. At least SBW had raw physical traits and in the end was dominant in his second season.)

If we have no problems in telling Isaac Ross - who arguably saved the All Black line outs for the tri-nations in his rookie year - to **** of and "develop"; I'm sure we could do the same for Beauden Barrett.

not sure what you mean by that, the All Blacks lineout was complete crap with Issac Ross in the all blacks calling the lineouts and he was the main reason we lost the 2009 tri nations and the #1 ranking for a while. It was his dumping and the selection of Tom Donnelly that basically instantly fixed the lineout and saw NZ regain the #1 spot.

actually poor old Tom Donnelly should be the one to complain about his treatment. He basically saved the AB's at the end of 09 and showed he was a quality test player then not long after he never got a look in. His test form should have earned him future selection even if he didn't light up super rugby.

 

[admartian]

not sure what you mean by that, the All Blacks lineout was complete crap with Issac Ross in the all blacks calling the lineouts and he was the main reason we lost the 2009 tri nations and the #1 ranking for a while. It was his dumping and the selection of Tom Donnelly that basically instantly fixed the lineout and saw NZ regain the #1 spot.

actually poor old Tom Donnelly should be the one to complain about his treatment. He basically saved the AB's at the end of 09 and showed he was a quality test player then not long after he never got a look in. His test form should have earned him future selection even if he didn't light up super rugby.

Like I said; "arguably".

So either way....

Point remains the same; we don';t need to be protecting Barrett or fast-tracking him right now. Especially with Carter still around and Cruden as well. I;d rather someone like Asncombe who can defend and attack with more consistency; even though it isn't at (though you could plug him there more suitably, than you could with Barrett at 15).

Just imo.

 

[nickdnz]

Like I said; "arguably".

So either way....

Point remains the same; we don';t need to be protecting Barrett or fast-tracking him right now. Especially with Carter still around and Cruden as well. I;d rather someone like Asncombe who can defend and attack with more consistency; even though it isn't at (though you could plug him there more suitably, than you could with Barrett at 15).

Just imo.

Dude, I honestly don't know where you get the stuff you say. Anscombe is a poor defender usually - and he hasn't attacked at all at 1st 5/8th! There are better fullbacks out there than Anscombe as well - Piatau, Dagg, Smith...

It always seems to me like you go from "This player should be in the All Blacks" after one or two good games behind a winning team - to "He's useless and there are many better options". You do the same thing with the All Blacks, some bad performances by Super Rugby sides and it becomes all doom and gloom. Slade had one reasonably good game in probably close to two years, and you instantly are like 'right, he should be ahead of Barrett'?! Noakes plays behind a Blues team that has been winning, but his defense is worse than Barrett's and you still suggest him. It's really frustrating.

 

[austingtir]

Are you the same guy who was saying Aaron Smith should be benched for the rest of the season? How did that one work out for you? The call about Slade is about as prescient, same with taking Smith ahead of Dagg.

Yes absolutly and i still think he sucks all you fan boys can keep flapping your hands in the air about him as much as you like I dont care. Super doesnt mean jack when it comes to internationals. A Smith had a super easy ride last year. He'll be found out this year mark my words. I bet weepu plays more games by the end of the season.

And Ben Smith has been a better player than Dagg for the last two seasons.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Just in case anyone was silly enough to think Alapati Leuia would be close to a Black jersey (I'm looking at you, random news reporter whose name I have forgotten), he has committed to Samoa and has been named in their squad for June.

 

[admartian]

Dude, I honestly don't know where you get the stuff you say. Anscombe is a poor defender usually - and he hasn't attacked at all at 1st 5/8th! There are better fullbacks out there than Anscombe as well - Piatau, Dagg, Smith...

It always seems to me like you go from "This player should be in the All Blacks" after one or two good games behind a winning team - to "He's useless and there are many better options". You do the same thing with the All Blacks, some bad performances by Super Rugby sides and it becomes all doom and gloom. Slade had one reasonably good game in probably close to two years, and you instantly are like 'right, he should be ahead of Barrett'?! Noakes plays behind a Blues team that has been winning, but his defense is worse than Barrett's and you still suggest him. It's really frustrating.

...

Sorry...?
*shrug*

Seriously, they're just opinions - I make no secret that I tend to jump the gun from time to time. Sorry ya feel that way I spose.

 

[nickdnz]

...

Sorry...?
*shrug*

Seriously, they're just opinions - I make no secret that I tend to jump the gun from time to time. Sorry ya feel that way I spose.

Hmm, maybe I came off too strong in my last post...

 

[donmcdazzle]

Yes absolutly and i still think he sucks all you fan boys can keep flapping your hands in the air about him as much as you like I dont care. Super doesnt mean jack when it comes to internationals. A Smith had a super easy ride last year. He'll be found out this year mark my words. I bet weepu plays more games by the end of the season.

And Ben Smith has been a better player than Dagg for the last two seasons.

So Super doesn't mean jack when it comes to internationals, but you're calling everyone crazy for having Dagg ahead of Smith for the AB's because Smith has outplayed Dagg at, wait for it, Super Rugby level. Brilliant analysis.

Yeah somehow I'm not really going to be marking your words.

 

[austingtir]

So Super doesn't mean jack when it comes to internationals, but you're calling everyone crazy for having Dagg ahead of Smith for the AB's because Smith has outplayed Dagg at, wait for it, Super Rugby level. Brilliant analysis.

Yeah somehow I'm not really going to be marking your words.

Where did i say super rugby level in relation to Smith and Dagg? Ultimately i do think Dagg has the most potential out of the two of them but Dagg is playing nowhere near his best and the only fair thing for Hanson to do is drop him and give Smith a chance. The only thing i will correct myself on is I probably should of stated last year as that would confuse things less.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Where did i say super rugby level in relation to Smith and Dagg? Ultimately i do think Dagg has the most potential out of the two of them but Dagg is playing nowhere near his best and the only fair thing for Hanson to do is drop him and give Smith a chance. The only thing i will correct myself on is I probably should of stated last year as that would confuse things less.

You said Smith was playing better than Dagg. Which level were you talking about? At Super level, yes, but you said you can't use that as a judge. Dagg has always been good at international level, while Smith hasn't played much at fullback for the All Blacks at all, so you can't be talking about that?

 

[austingtir]

You said Smith was playing better than Dagg. Which level were you talking about? At Super level, yes, but you said you can't use that as a judge. Dagg has always been good at international level, while Smith hasn't played much at fullback for the All Blacks at all, so you can't be talking about that?

Well i meant at international level so yes i was talking about that. Just because people like yourself have no vision its not my problem.
Thats what i was talking about even in his limited appearances i still think he's better. It still annoys the heck out of me that Hanson didnt start him in more games on the EOY tour it made no sense whatsoever.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Well i meant at international level so yes i was talking about that. Just because people like yourself have no vision its not my problem.
Thats what i was talking about even in his limited appearances i still think he's better. It still annoys the heck out of me that Hanson didnt start him in more games on the EOY tour it made no sense whatsoever.

I think Ben Smith has been average at international level, actually - but that's only because he hasn't been given the chance to play fullback. I agree that he should have been given more game time, but only so that he can showcase his skills in his preferred position. His international form hasn't warranted it, you're basing it on his Super Rugby form.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Well i meant at international level so yes i was talking about that. Just because people like yourself have no vision its not my problem.
Thats what i was talking about even in his limited appearances i still think he's better. It still annoys the heck out of me that Hanson didnt start him in more games on the EOY tour it made no sense whatsoever.

If you think based on international form that Smith should be selected over Dagg then you are an even worse judge of rugby than your previous comments denote.

 

[Larksea]

ben smith has looked really good in the limited chances he has had at test level in the last couple of years, problem is they have just been so little. on super rugby form he has been better than Dagg, Jane and Gear but has had to wait behind them in the queue for test footy.

There is not excuse now though, He surely has to be the #1 candidate to fill the #14 jersey next month.

 

[nickdnz]

ben smith has looked really good in the limited chances he has had at test level in the last couple of years, problem is they have just been so little. on super rugby form he has been better than Dagg, Jane and Gear but has had to wait behind them in the queue for test footy.

There is not excuse now though, He surely has to be the #1 candidate to fill the #14 jersey next month.

Except he's not played any games on the wing this year (and hes not nearly as good winger as he is fullback or centre)..

But don't let that stop you...

 

[William18]

Ben Smith has to start at centre v. France even though he hasn't played there all year.