** All-time XV's Thread **

[Jer1cho]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 26 2009, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

don't think Wilkinson ever managed to reach the level of performance that Carter did during the 2005 Lions series[/b]

Wilkinson was in a league of his own in 2003. When Carter had his brilliance he played a HUGELY under-par Lions team. When he reached the Tri-Nations he broke his leg and that was it. 3 great games he had against the Lions made him an icon. He didn't have what it takes to win a World Cup in 2007. Wilkinson had it, and then some, in 2003.

Tana Umaga i also think is many MANY miles away from being one of the greatest centers ever. Especially when compared to greats like Horan, Phillipe Sella, Danie Gerber, and even Will Carling.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Mar 26 2009, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 26 2009, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

don't think Wilkinson ever managed to reach the level of performance that Carter did during the 2005 Lions series[/b]

Wilkinson was in a league of his own in 2003. When Carter had his brilliance he played a HUGELY under-par Lions team. When he reached the Tri-Nations he broke his leg and that was it. 3 great games he had against the Lions made him an icon. He didn't have what it takes to win a World Cup in 2007. Wilkinson had it, and then some, in 2003.

Tana Umaga i also think is many MANY miles away from being one of the greatest centers ever. Especially when compared to greats like Horan, Phillipe Sella, Danie Gerber, and even Will Carling.
[/b][/quote]

again though he got injured and if you're talking about great English centres Will Greenwood is head and shoulders above Will Carling.

 

[Jer1cho]

Ok ok, agreed about Greenwood. Tana Umaga was good as a wing when he started off. As a center, he just got slow and ugly in my opinion.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 26 2009, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

15. Jason Robinson
14. David Duckham
13. Jeremy Guscott
12. Will Greenwood
11. Rory Underwood
10. Jonny Wilkinson
9. Matt Dawson

1. Jason Leonard
2. Brian Moore
3. Fran Cotton
4. Martin Johnson
5. Wade Dooley
6. Richard Hill
7. Neil Back
8. Lawrence Dallaglio

Amazing, almost a combination of the 2 great England sides of the early 90s and 00s.[/b]

Did either of those play in the 80s though?

 

[GimleyUK]

Greatest I've ever seen play in their respective positions.

1 N.Popplewell Ire

2 S.Fitzpatrick N.Z.

3 C.Hayman N.Z.

4 V.Matfield RSA

5 J.Eales Aus

6 R.Hill Eng

7 M.Jones N.Z.

8 W.T.Shelford N.Z.

9 R.Howley Wal

10 T.Castaignède Fra

11. D.Campezi Aus

12. M.Ring Wal

13. R.King N.Z.

14 S.Williams Wal

15 S.Blanco Fra

 

[GimleyUK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Mar 26 2009, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

and even Will Carling.[/b]

will carling was not a good center...

he was an england captain

 

[Sir Speedy]

Regan King! THAT MAKES ME ANGRY!

And for the record, Carter is certainly a better player than Wilkinson was. Jesus, how the hell can you judge the quality of a player on what they've won? Oh that's right, you can't. :mellow:

 

[Meh]

Carter has always been way better than Wilko...

 

[An Tarbh]

I think this comes down to personal preference rather than achievements, you can't take away from what Wilkinson has achieved and he was certainly top of his game in 02/03, Carter will redress that in 2011 when NZ finally win the world cup but until then you'll always have people trumping the achievements over general play.

 

[GimleyUK]

do you guys have to break rugby skill down to achievements...?

it is pretty poor when you ca not discuss the technical merits of a players abilities, and have to use the Wilkinson won a world cup Carter didn't

would wilkinson or carter have been as noticeable if they had played behind a beaten pack?



and seriously i would love to hear an argument that regan king isnt one of the most skillfull payers to ever play outside center

 

[Sir Speedy]

He's a very talented player, but he can't defend. He's not in the top ten centres in the world at the moment, let alone the best to ever have played...

 

[An Tarbh]

surprised that we haven't seen a Welsh XV from any of you yet.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Most of us weren't around in the so-called 'Golden Era' of Welsh rugby so it's difficult for us to comment. I'll have a go:

15. JPR Williams
14. Jonathan Davies
13. Ray Gravell(?)
12. Scott Gibbs
11. Shane Williams
10. Phil Bennett
9. Gareth Edwards

As for the forwards, **** knows...

 

[An Tarbh]

again though for the purpose of this thread it's from the 80s onward.

 

[An Tarbh]

can't recall jiffy ever playing on the wing, bit before your time eh?

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GimleyUK @ Mar 29 2009, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

do you guys have to break rugby skill down to achievements...?

it is pretty poor when you ca not discuss the technical merits of a players abilities, and have to use the Wilkinson won a world cup Carter didn't

would wilkinson or carter have been as noticeable if they had played behind a beaten pack?



and seriously i would love to hear an argument that regan king isnt one of the most skillfull payers to ever play outside center[/b]

Allan Bateman, Jeremy Guscott...

Face it, if King was worthy of a place in a World Team, he would have played more for the All Blacks. And they've had the likes of Smith and Umaga wear 13 recently who are world class.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Well I am 16. Cut me some slack...

As for >80's:

15. Byrne
14.
13.
12. Scott Gibbs
11. Shane Williams
10. Neil Jenkins
9. Robert Howley

Once again, **** knows for the forwards and 14/13.

 

[An Tarbh]

if you want a goal kicker then Jenkins would be your man, if not I'd go for Davies, as for the wing and centre you can't go wrong with Ieuan Evans and Tom Shanklin.

 

[GimleyUK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 30 2009, 04:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Face it, if King was worthy of a place in a World Team, he would have played more for the All Blacks. And they've had the likes of Smith and Umaga wear 13 recently who are world class.[/b]

you are right that allan bateman really was world class. Umanga was great winger but a direct center with no where near the multi dimensional attacking ability of King. Smith i like a lot but he is not as good as king.

to say that one player has been capped more than another does not make that player a better or worse player than the other.

Regan King was more overlooked after an injury that faultered his potential all black career. his restarted career with llanelli scarlets was the challenge that has showed him to be in my eyes the most skillfull outside center in the world. the all blacks refuse to pick any player playing outside of new zealand, therefor unless he had moved home he can not be picked by the all blacks.

He has an eye for a pass and a sense for space and a gap that transcends to the players around him. for example look at how quickly Gavin Evans and Jonathan Davies have improved playing alongside him.

 

[feicarsinn]

sorry for the one eyed bias but regarding centre in the pro era BRIAN BRIAN BRIAN BRIAN BRIAN BRIAN BRIAN!