Are you a light forward??

[jamiee26]

Im 14 6'3 91kg and play second row, so id get eating! (and dont get thinking that im fat cus its mostly muscle with a thin layer of fat)

 

[Peat]

I think you're protesting too much Jamie...

Anyway, I'm 6'1" and under 13 stone. I play flanker and sometimes lock at men's level (albeit, social rugby).

If you're aggressive, work like a Polish decorator with five starving kids at home and will put you head where most people wouldn't put a hammer, you can make it as a forward.

Obviously, strength and weight help. And you can be too skinny.

 

[Jayatron]

If you're aggressive, work like a Polish decorator with five starving kids at home and will put you head where most people wouldn't put a hammer, you can make it as a forward.

Funny stuff! If you could only see the marks on my face!

 

[Peat]

Funny stuff! If you could only see the marks on my face!

Mine's not looking too pretty right now either.

 

[lucky number 7]

Being an undersized 7 is sort of my thing. 5'10, 75kgs in year 13 trying to foot it with these Samoan monsters around the place. I've been lucky enough to get a lot of specialist coaching in the area so i have a few tips to share if you choose to go down that road:

-Momentum is your friend. F=ma, and you dont have much 'm' so you better compensate with a shitload of 'a'. Always try to position yourself on an angle that gives you the biggest wind up; so on defense, always try and fill the furthest channel from the ruck, so you can get to top pace and smash the flyhalf or centres. (obviously the first priority is to fill the closest channel to the ruck, so if you're there first, fill the first channel and keep swapping further out as the fatties arrive).
On attack try and give yourself room to hit top pace, so if you are are looking to receive the ball off the flyhalf's outside shoulder, don't just stand outside him; try and position yourself so you're starting out almost between the 9 and 10 and then wrap around to really hit the ball at top gear.

-Be fit. Like, Emma Watson in the latest Harry Potter levels of fit. Being smaller means you're carrying less weight, so you should be running rings around the other guys. This is especially telling later on in the game, if you are still able to give 100% in the 70th minute, you will be able to plain outmuscle the bigger boys who have more muscle mass but are so tired they are barely able to use it.

You are also going to need to be on everyone's shoulder every time there's a break and at as many breakdowns as humanly possible etc etc, that old chestnut.

-Give up on building bulk, it looks like you have found a plateau at 85 odd kilos where you can't retain weight after that (very similar to myself). Its simply not worth the effort to try and gain raw bulk past this point, your playing weight is going to be 80ish and you have to deal with it. Instead of hitting the gym and doing the classic low rep- high weight routine to grow muscle, thrash the plyometrics to get explosive as possible, with an auxillery focus on muscle endurance and efficiency. A smaller player thats able to explode can often get the better or a larger musclebound player that takes longer to wind up (Read vs Spies, Pacquiao vs Any gym monkey)

-You dont have any time, You always have to try and think ahead as much as possible, but for the most part you're going to have to get used acting on your instincts and then using hindsight to decide if it was a good idea or not. Often you will see guys like Schalk Burger field a kick, then stutter a bit while he decides whether to pass or kick or run and then where to run etc, often he thinks for too long and will get defenders swarming on him. He can deal with this by swatting them away until support arrives and then putting a mad legdrive on to get momentum, he can do this because he's a tank of a human being. If a smaller player gets caught static, they are going to get marched backwards and turnover go forward ball to the opposition (in all likelyhood). A smaller guy has to be able to look up, sum the situation up in an instant and then go for gold, the less time you spend out of top speed the better.

-Pick your angles: Being a smaller player means running straight at players, both in attack and defense is a likely death sentence. Unless you have a considerable amount of acceleration over them you will end up second best. Instead, try to subtly adjust the angles of your plays so that their force isn't entirely directed at you and your force is all going into them.. So if an attacker is running straight forward and you hit him in the side of the ribcage at a 45 degree angle, his force is concentrated at 0 degrees so you only absorb a fraction of that, yet he will still take 100% of the force you are dishing out, physics dictates that you should **** him up.
Likewise in attack, players will often nominate what shoulder they want to hit you with before you get there, spot which one they want to use and then change up your angle at the last minute and focus all your force into their other one. Even with a great size difference you can often bust right through guys by picking angles like these.

-You're going to need bangin' auxillary skills: Because you cant offer some of the traditional advantages that big flankers can, you have to get unorthodox to make yourself a viable selection. Having all the skills to play in the backline is a massive bonus; every coach loves having options and the ability to have a secret weapon such as an extra back on the field is often a tempting enough proposition to get you in a squad. I often found myself being placed as a link man in the midfield, so the skills of catching, passing and picking a gap are important to train on, and having a decent kick and a step isn't a bad idea either. The most important attribute you need to fill this role is just composure though, there's nothing worse than a forward getting the ball in midfield, looking like he doesn't have a clue and then pottering about stalling the move right down.

Another handy talent to have is a sharp halfback pass off the deck. In most teams, in the situation where the halfback goes for a snipe creating a great backline attack opportunity (but getting himself tackled in the process) one of three things will probably happen:
a)The forwards will ignore the flyhalf and pick and go until the halfback gets back in the play (in which case the attacks dead in the water)
b)A forward will try and play halfback, invariably lobbing a hospital pass up above the flyhalfs head
c)A back will go in to clear the ball (invariably the flyhalf), this drops a pair of hands out of the backline and generally buggers up any set play they had planned

Being able to give the team a second option to distribute from the ruck makes you a valuable asset to a team. It speeds the entire attack up, and again gives the coach options. Your ability to clear the ball could free him up to play a more of a running player at 9 like a Sarel Pretorious or Shane Williams, where as previously he may have had reservations about them getting stuck in rucks too often to play half.

So yeah, i think ive covered all the basics. There is nothing wrong with playing undersized in the loose forwards as long as you're prepared to work at it!

This should be published ..

 

[lucky number 7]

I think you're protesting too much Jamie...

Anyway, I'm 6'1" and under 13 stone. I play flanker and sometimes lock at men's level (albeit, social rugby).

If you're aggressive, work like a Polish decorator with five starving kids at home and will put you head where most people wouldn't put a hammer, you can make it as a forward.

Obviously, strength and weight help. And you can be too skinny.

Most important thing to keep in mind.
You get good enough at the deep jackal you're going to get gouged 'tis a sad fact..but keeping plugging away and never rise to it is key.

 

[T-Rex]

There's another tried and tested beginners lifting routine (which I started on) called "Stronglifts 5x5" - pretty much exactly the same (A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B etc.) but the workouts are slightly different:
[TABLE="class: grid"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]B[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Squats 5x5[/TD]
[TD]Squats 5x5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bench Press 5x5[/TD]
[TD]Over Head Press 5x5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bentover Row 5x5[/TD]
[TD]Deadlift 1x5[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]



You're supposed to start with a very low weight (they recommend just the bar) and add 2.5kg each session - builds your strength up quickly, while teaching you the movements with a low weight so you get the form right
I'd recommend downloading the free eBook and reading it even if you decide not to do the routine, it's got a lot of solid information in there that's useful to anyone looking to go to the gym

I do a relatively similar routine to this, and gained about 2kg in less than a month when I started. SS and similar programs are well known for helping you put on quite a lot in the early stages, although it's advised you eat a lot too (I think Rippetoe says something like you should be getting yourself kicked out of an all you can eat buffet 2 times a week).

Conn 15, if you decide to do Rippetoe or Starr's 5x5, you might find you want to drop your squat sets once or twice a week to 4x5 or only squat twice a week and possibly replace that third squat session with a 4x5 deadlift session, I found squatting 3 times a week is very tough on the legs if you have only been squatting once a week prior or even not at all prior. Although it's all up to how YOUR body copes with it though as it's important to remember to take advice from what your body tells you.

Also, as people have said, shakes aren't so important, just adjust your diet to include more protein. I eat chicken breast twice a day usually. Boneless, skinles chicken has around 20g of protein per 100g, I often eat about 500gms of chicken a day, some days up to 750gms. I fkn love chicken.

 

[Saintjay]

Go buy Neil Back's book size doesn't matter. He was 5'10 and about 14st. Yet he was one of the best numbers 7's in the game.
He fought a hugh battle to get picked for England because despite how good he was they thought he was to small. His training made up for his size.

 

[ACT1NUP]

I do a relatively similar routine to this, and gained about 2kg in less than a month when I started. SS and similar programs are well known for helping you put on quite a lot in the early stages, although it's advised you eat a lot too (I think Rippetoe says something like you should be getting yourself kicked out of an all you can eat buffet 2 times a week).

Conn 15, if you decide to do Rippetoe or Starr's 5x5, you might find you want to drop your squat sets once or twice a week to 4x5 or only squat twice a week and possibly replace that third squat session with a 4x5 deadlift session, I found squatting 3 times a week is very tough on the legs if you have only been squatting once a week prior or even not at all prior. Although it's all up to how YOUR body copes with it though as it's important to remember to take advice from what your body tells you.

Also, as people have said, shakes aren't so important, just adjust your diet to include more protein. I eat chicken breast twice a day usually. Boneless, skinles chicken has around 20g of protein per 100g, I often eat about 500gms of chicken a day, some days up to 750gms. I fkn love chicken.

You could do this but the whole 5x5 program is based around the 3x weekly squat. I did the exact program (though I started up near my max lifts and just accepted slower gains) and while squatting 3x weekly is tough it is more mental than anything. Yeah I went into squat sessions sore as but it's amazing what your body puts up with when you just suck it up. Body will adapt to pretty much anything eventually.

 

[T-Rex]

You could do this but the whole 5x5 program is based around the 3x weekly squat. I did the exact program (though I started up near my max lifts and just accepted slower gains) and while squatting 3x weekly is tough it is more mental than anything. Yeah I went into squat sessions sore as but it's amazing what your body puts up with when you just suck it up. Body will adapt to pretty much anything eventually.

Which is why I say this ''Although it's all up to how YOUR body copes with it though as it's important to remember to take advice from what your body tells you.'' Fitness professionals I've talked to have suggested dropping one squat session for a deadlift session although I still prefer to squat 3 times a week, but that, again, is what suits me.

I prefer to do deep squats as well. Though you're right about the body adapting to basically anything, which is why I did just suck it up and kept in mind that my legs were just going to have to get bigger and stronger to accommodate the workload.

 

[ACT1NUP]

Yeah true that. Just hate for the dude to jump into 5x5 thinking he could drop a day of squats if it is too difficult when really it defeats the purpose of the program. Truth is squats are difficult but probably the most effective exercise there is. Also hate to see someone bail on a squat day just because they think they can't do it when they most probably could if they pushed themselves. Lower the volume if thats what it takes to squat the 3x a week. btw if people ain't deep squatting (below parallel), you ain't squatting . Rugby players are famous for half squatting or 'knee bending' amongst the PLers haha definitely a long running joke, hope no-one on here does it

 

[T-Rex]

Yeah true that. Just hate for the dude to jump into 5x5 thinking he could drop a day of squats if it is too difficult when really it defeats the purpose of the program. Truth is squats are difficult but probably the most effective exercise there is. Also hate to see someone bail on a squat day just because they think they can't do it when they most probably could if they pushed themselves. Lower the volume if thats what it takes to squat the 3x a week. btw if people ain't deep squatting (below parallel), you ain't squatting . Rugby players are famous for half squatting or 'knee bending' amongst the PLers haha definitely a long running joke, hope no-one on here does it

Yeah, squats are a great exercise, easily my personal favourite. Agree about going past parallel, when I've tried regular squatting, it seems so easy in comparison to deep squatting. Regular squats don't have that same difficulty factor you get when pushing the weight back up after dropping your ass right to the floor (well, as close as).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I approve of the deep squatting mentioned in this thread


Nothing worse than seeing people rack up a load of weight then squat down about 6 inches

 

[Warrior Rugby]

Weight has very little to do with it, Matt Giteau is an absolute beast and is only around 85kg, Dan Carter can also tackle some very big men but is around the low 90 mark. If you have the skill you should be fine, size counts for very little in rugby, even a prop needs technique over size and just because you're 140kg and really fit doesn't mean you'd be an outstanding prop.

This is very true. I i'm a very heavy 2nd row lol that has to do with eating to much whilst recovering from a bad injury....but anyway when I started playing rugby I was very physically strong, 6 ft 2 but was getting knocked off the ball to easily, driven to much etc etc.... I started doing Tai Chi and the dynamics of my game changed drastically also my mind (was more focused on the objective (recycling the ball, driving my op off the ball, getting the squeeze on in the scrum etc...) rather than worrying about my make up (height, weight, size vs theirs) which should be done off the pitch in your training and prep). Your height and weight is something to consider as you must look at yourself as a complete package as you must tailor your training but doing something like Tai Chi (which uses very slow and defined and at times fluid movements) will allow you to unlock what you need so you can draw on it when needed. so to summarise my babble. technique and mental conditioning is what you need to look at. you'll find you correct position after a
while