What would be the best position to play as a 1.83m 75kg (6”0 ,165lbs) (gaining weight!)

[sakura]

I used to play rugby till 2014 (I'm born in 2000) and I used to play loosehead prop as I think back then one of the strongest of the team. Sadly I had to quit because of a knee injury because back then my parents didn't take it serious and I lost all interest in playing due to the pain I had. I know props of my age are atleast 1.5x my weight and Im definitely too short to be a lock, not that I really want to play lock or have to be a prop again. I quit in the year the scrum went from 5 man to 8 and I was really jealous at the number 8 position. If I gain another 20kg of muscle would I make a good number 8? I feel kind of short when Im next to my 2.10m (6"9) flanker buddy and today I heard from a professional that he would put me as a center or as a winger. Im quite lean and muscular but Im prepared to gain extra muscle and weight. (Back when I played Id like to think my strongest points where running trough people without getting tackled and stealing the ball, not a lot of passing and a bit egoistic but I was young without much knowledge and prop haha… )

Thanks a lot for reading, I hope my writing wasnt too boring, its my first reddit post haha

 

[Which Tyler]

Where do you enjoy playing? How to you like playing? What aspects of the game do you think you'll be best suited to?
Also where would you be playing? and at what level does your club play?

Answer those questions first, then at 6'0 your size won't prevent you from playing anywhere really. May not be tall enough for lock - (although even that would depend on the level) won't have the inbuilt instincts to play half-back.

After that, just start training and playing; maybe some 7s or touch rugby initially, then off the bench filling in wherever, and find what plays you gravitate to. Be led by your coach as s/he sees what you can and can't do - but ultimately, find the position that best suits what you enjoy doing.

At shitty local level, body shape doesn't mean all that much; and can be changed with training as desired (if you have the motivation); but if you enjoy running fast and never passing; then you should start out at wing; if you enjoy smashing people, start at flanker; if you enjoy smashing INTO people, try #8; if you enjoy making space for others, but finishing a gap that opens in front of you, then go for the centres.
Equally, if you don't enjoy those things for each position, steer clear of them.

Pick by actions, not physique

 

[BPM]

I'd go along with everything Which has said.

Based upon your original post where you talked about running through people, stealing the ball and not much passing, that sounds a lot like me and I'd imagine you'd be more at home as a flanker or, if you're not put off by the set piece bits, you could try hooker.

 

[NZbloke]

I used to play rugby till 2014 (I'm born in 2000) and I used to play loosehead prop as I think back then one of the strongest of the team. Sadly I had to quit because of a knee injury because back then my parents didn't take it serious and I lost all interest in playing due to the pain I had. I know props of my age are atleast 1.5x my weight and Im definitely too short to be a lock, not that I really want to play lock or have to be a prop again. I quit in the year the scrum went from 5 man to 8 and I was really jealous at the number 8 position. If I gain another 20kg of muscle would I make a good number 8? I feel kind of short when Im next to my 2.10m (6"9) flanker buddy and today I heard from a professional that he would put me as a center or as a winger. Im quite lean and muscular but Im prepared to gain extra muscle and weight. (Back when I played Id like to think my strongest points where running trough people without getting tackled and stealing the ball, not a lot of passing and a bit egoistic but I was young without much knowledge and prop haha… )

Thanks a lot for reading, I hope my writing wasnt too boring, its my first reddit post haha

The great thing about rugby it suits all shapes & sizes... play in a position that suits your physique.

I take it you were pretty fast as well ? ...reckon if you were playing in the forwards I'd say openside flanker - as a back I'd say either halfback, wing or fullback.
If you have weakness in a position you're playing in keep practicing it, the more you do it the better you become at executing it.

 

[sakura]

Where do you enjoy playing? How to you like playing? What aspects of the game do you think you'll be best suited to?
Also where would you be playing? and at what level does your club play?

Answer those questions first, then at 6'0 your size won't prevent you from playing anywhere really. May not be tall enough for lock - (although even that would depend on the level) won't have the inbuilt instincts to play half-back.

After that, just start training and playing; maybe some 7s or touch rugby initially, then off the bench filling in wherever, and find what plays you gravitate to. Be led by your coach as s/he sees what you can and can't do - but ultimately, find the position that best suits what you enjoy doing.

At shitty local level, body shape doesn't mean all that much; and can be changed with training as desired (if you have the motivation); but if you enjoy running fast and never passing; then you should start out at wing; if you enjoy smashing people, start at flanker; if you enjoy smashing INTO people, try #8; if you enjoy making space for others, but finishing a gap that opens in front of you, then go for the centres.
Equally, if you don't enjoy those things for each position, steer clear of them.

Pick by actions, not physique

Thanks a lot for the in depth response! I would play at one of my local clubs here once I think I can afford it financially to be able to attend every training day, as I think this would be most respectful towards my teammates and in the meantime I will be lifting weights and running and practicing with my rebound ball at night.

Most guys here all been to the rugby school as its quite close and central here and they are quite good and started from a young age, also there are quite some super big guys here well over 2meter to also keep in mind, Im definitely stronger then an average guy of my age but I once tried a 1v1 scrum with a 2.10m (6"9) giant and he did fold me in two like a piece of paper. I know this level ain't international but I would like to pick my position with international in mind id say, maybe not super wise and necessary but I like to do things right from the start as I think its efficient, even if I probably would be better off with not doing this haha…

I recently started to pack on muscle really fast to my suprise, I didn't pack it on this fast before so its a real blessing! I trained since I was 15 quite obsessive on and off, Id say I could get to 95kg staying quite lean in the 15% bodyfat range in the next 2 year if I go on like this, 70kg to 78kg went really fast with my new diet and training.

I think I admire the number 8 position a lot, but if id be holding the team down because of my body I would feel bad. I think wingers and centers are cool too since they get to run through people and score tries so this would be fine if I would be more useful in the team as a back. I wasn't a big fan of line outs so maybe Im glad Im too short for being a lock, also I didnt like this position in the scrum too much. The responsibility of throwing the ball into the lineout also doesnt appeal a lot to me, maybe because I love to keep the ball and never let go unless I have to. Flankers are cool too! But isn't the number 8 just a little bit cooler and getting more balls and stuff haha >.<… I think I wouldn't be the best fullback, I always sucked at soccer and even tho we didn't kick the ball yet when I played rugby at 14yo I still don't think I would be the best suited guy to make responsible for the kicks, I also don't think my strong points would be something that makes a great scrum half or fly half.

I think most coaches would like to put me as a center/wing now because of my length, as it sounds like they only want flankers and 8's with giant genetics at my age. But all I know is forward work haha…… I guess times change and I should be open for changes to be the most valuable I can be for the team when necessary, I can sprint quite fast and I can work on my condition and endurance so I think I have it in me too. But isn't the best feeling in rugby to go all out to get that ball over the tryline with two people hanging behind you xD

Looking at my message now I cant believe I typed this much… Sorry to make you read all of this I guess I got too excited. Again thanks a lot for the in depth response

 

[sakura]

I'd go along with everything Which has said.

Based upon your original post where you talked about running through people, stealing the ball and not much passing, that sounds a lot like me and I'd imagine you'd be more at home as a flanker or, if you're not put off by the set piece bits, you could try hooker.

Thanks for your response! Do you maybe know some factors why flanker could suite me better as number 8 or the other way around so I can keep this in mind while deciding?
Oh and I don't know what set piece bits means xD

 

[sakura]

The great thing about rugby it suits all shapes & sizes... play in a position that suits your physique.

I take it you were pretty fast as well ? ...reckon if you were playing in the forwards I'd say openside flanker - as a back I'd say either halfback, wing or fullback.
If you have weakness in a position you're playing in keep practicing it, the more you do it the better you become at executing it.

Thanks for ur reply! Yeah Id hope to find the position that would best match with my physique

I used to be pretty fast I think yeah, even tho I was a prop. And do you maybe have some things why ud say openside flanker would be better as blindside or number 8? For example size etc

 

[sakura]

I also think that Im better at running through people with the ball as I am at getting people down, but this is something I will be working on aswell

 

[NZbloke]

Thanks for ur reply! Yeah Id hope to find the position that would best match with my physique

I used to be pretty fast I think yeah, even tho I was a prop. And do you maybe have some things why ud say openside flanker would be better as blindside or number 8? For example size etc

You're welcome mate.

I mentioned openside because a 7 is generally a bit smaller & faster than a 6 or 8 - so a 7 should be able to get to the loose ball quicker than the other two loosies, also have the pace to link up with the backs to help keep the momentum going.
Blindside flankers tends to be pretty tall, 6' 4'' or taller, so they're used a lot in the lineout too - I suppose number 8 could be an option too... our AB number 8 Ardie Savea isn't that big, but has great explosive strength to power through tackles.

 

[sakura]

You're welcome mate.

I mentioned openside because a 7 is generally a bit smaller & faster than a 6 or 8 - so a 7 should be able to get to the loose ball quicker than the other two loosies, also have the pace to link up with the backs to help keep the momentum going.
Blindside flankers tends to be pretty tall, 6' 4'' or taller, so they're used a lot in the lineout too - I suppose number 8 could be an option too... our AB number 8 Ardie Savea isn't that big, but has great explosive strength to power through tackles.

Awesome I got it! Thanks! 7 sounds pretty exciting now too. And I'll check out Ardie Savea

 

[sakura]

You're welcome mate.

I mentioned openside because a 7 is generally a bit smaller & faster than a 6 or 8 - so a 7 should be able to get to the loose ball quicker than the other two loosies, also have the pace to link up with the backs to help keep the momentum going.
Blindside flankers tends to be pretty tall, 6' 4'' or taller, so they're used a lot in the lineout too - I suppose number 8 could be an option too... our AB number 8 Ardie Savea isn't that big, but has great explosive strength to power through tackles.

Oh hes 5cm taller then me but hes indeed not build like a freak, if he can play for a team like the All Blacks I think its not impossible for me to become a number 8 yeah if I work hard

 

[NZbloke]

Exactly sakura, if you work hard you could be a good number 8 - reckon you'd be a good number 7 too.

Ardie Savea was a specialist 7, but has played at 8 for the AB's for the last couple of years - he's a very athletic powerful skillful player, can play in all 3 loosie positions, but doesn't have the height at 6, so is better suited to 7 or 8... hightlights of his debut for ABs :

 

[BPM]

Thanks for your response! Do you maybe know some factors why flanker could suite me better as number 8 or the other way around so I can keep this in mind while deciding?
Oh and I don't know what set piece bits means xD

I think a lot of what's been written so far is talking about what we see at the pro level. I don't know if that's the right reference point.

A test blindside is usually well over 6 foot tall but that doesn't really apply in the same way at amateur level. Generally stuff like the lineout is not going to be of the standard where picking a player based on his height is going to make that much difference. Given the choice of a better shorter player vs. a taller guy for the lineout, I'd imagine virtually every amateur coach will go for the former.

Similarly, the difference between a 6, 7 and 8 isn't really that big at amateur level. In my experience, a lot of teams don't strictly designate a blindside and openside role - it's more like left and right at the scrum and no real difference in open play.

When you watch an 8 in the pro game, there are lots of positional nuances - for example being positioned in the back field to return kicks etc. but you don't get that so much at lower levels because you just don't have the same amount or standard of kicking. Also, if you're basing your admiration of the 8 position on the carrying aspect of it, you might be disappointed. It really depends on your team, how good they are and how they set up. The 8 might not be used as a primary carrier or the team might not be good enough for the 8 to see much of the ball. An 8 also needs to have good control at the base of the scrum which can make it a bit more difficult than 6 or 7.

If you want an example of a smaller 8, Sam Simmonds is your man. However, he isn't a usual 8 and is used more as an 8th back so might give you a deceptive view. Exeter build a lot of their game plan around him. That won't happen in most teams.

At this stage, 'back row' feels like the best place. Get back playing and worry about a specific position once you're back up to speed and have sussed out the standard you're playing at.

BTW - set piece means the scrum or lineout. You said elsewhere you don't want the responsibility of throwing, so you can ignore my suggestion of hooker.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Bit late to the party but don't overthink it too much dude! Go down to your local club and they'll find you your level. If you want to play 8 go for it but a coach could easily put you 6 or 7. Don't get discouraged, put your body on the line, be sound and everyone will welcome you.

We're all playing for fun so effort and attitude are far more valuable traits than being the most skilled or most athletic guy on the team!

 

[Which Tyler]

I think a lot of what's been written so far is talking about what we see at the pro level. I don't know if that's the right reference point.

This. And at "shitty amateur" level, physique doesn't particularly matter; and what does can be changed in the gym (or McDonalds if looking at front row).
That's why I'm suggesting to pick a position based on what you enjoy doing; and to do so whilst being guided by your local club coach.
When I suggested getting a few matches off the bench first - I'm thinking of shitty amateur level, where the bench has 0-3 people, who fill in as required. If forwards, chances are any bench man will play flanker - where they're least likely to hurt themselves, any back is likely to play winger where they're away from making any decisions.

Bit late to the party but don't overthink it too much dude! Go down to your local club and they'll find you your level. If you want to play 8 go for it but a coach could easily put you 6 or 7. Don't get discouraged, put your body on the line, be sound and everyone will welcome you.

We're all playing for fun so effort and attitude are far more valuable traits than being the most skilled or most athletic guy on the team!

And this too.



Ultimately, you're 21 and returning to rugby for having had a few years out. When you did play, you played prop.
You're not turning professional any time soon; with the possible exception that you're already a semi-professional sprinter but didn't tell us that.

Starting off the bench at shitty amateur is your level right now. At shitty amateur level, physique doesn't really matter a damn. I'm 182cm, and I was the shorter of my team's 2 SHs; I was also taller than one of locks.
Skill wise, my sprint was barely quicker than my fast-jog, but I could fast-jog for 2 hours without a break, and I had a good pass off either hand, my competition at SH could box-kick and had a better R=>L pass than me, but his L=>R was more even laughable than my box. He was faster than me, but his lungs were busted after 5 minutes of phase play (not that we were good enough to hit 5 minutes of phases without someone dropping the ball of opening the gates in defence). I typically covered FH in the event of injury because no-one else could get their head around making a decision before having the ball in their hands (or a pass that could approach ours, hell our IC couldn't even spin the ball off his R=>L).
That's the skill requirement at shitty amateur. You need to be able to play on instinct to play half-back; you need stupidly strong core to play front row; beyond that, nothing really matters (though height is useful at lock).

You've every chance of evolving into a shitty amateur starter, or even in a few years, reaching reasonably decent amateur starter - by which time, you'll have played pretty much every position at some point in time, and not be needing our advice.


Seeing the conversation between SA... and NZ... It's often claimed that the reason England has so many more players than anywhere else is that our depth pyramid goes deeper into the amateur level and shitty levels. I'd always thought it was just a cop out, especially compared to the likes of France and SA who also have tonnes of players; and Wales and NZ where rugby is what everyone does. Maybe there's some truth in it after all.

 

[sakura]

I think a lot of what's been written so far is talking about what we see at the pro level. I don't know if that's the right reference point.

A test blindside is usually well over 6 foot tall but that doesn't really apply in the same way at amateur level. Generally stuff like the lineout is not going to be of the standard where picking a player based on his height is going to make that much difference. Given the choice of a better shorter player vs. a taller guy for the lineout, I'd imagine virtually every amateur coach will go for the former.

Similarly, the difference between a 6, 7 and 8 isn't really that big at amateur level. In my experience, a lot of teams don't strictly designate a blindside and openside role - it's more like left and right at the scrum and no real difference in open play.

When you watch an 8 in the pro game, there are lots of positional nuances - for example being positioned in the back field to return kicks etc. but you don't get that so much at lower levels because you just don't have the same amount or standard of kicking. Also, if you're basing your admiration of the 8 position on the carrying aspect of it, you might be disappointed. It really depends on your team, how good they are and how they set up. The 8 might not be used as a primary carrier or the team might not be good enough for the 8 to see much of the ball. An 8 also needs to have good control at the base of the scrum which can make it a bit more difficult than 6 or 7.

If you want an example of a smaller 8, Sam Simmonds is your man. However, he isn't a usual 8 and is used more as an 8th back so might give you a deceptive view. Exeter build a lot of their game plan around him. That won't happen in most teams.

At this stage, 'back row' feels like the best place. Get back playing and worry about a specific position once you're back up to speed and have sussed out the standard you're playing at.

BTW - set piece means the scrum or lineout. You said elsewhere you don't want the responsibility of throwing, so you can ignore my suggestion of hooker.

Thanks a lot again! I think I understand it well. I'll check out Sam so far it sounds really cool. Im glad its possible to be a (6-)7-8, I kinda lost the hope when I got told I'd make a good winger haha, such a big difference xD
Thanks!

 

[sakura]

Bit late to the party but don't overthink it too much dude! Go down to your local club and they'll find you your level. If you want to play 8 go for it but a coach could easily put you 6 or 7. Don't get discouraged, put your body on the line, be sound and everyone will welcome you.

We're all playing for fun so effort and attitude are far more valuable traits than being the most skilled or most athletic guy on the team!

Thanks

 

[sakura]

This. And at "shitty amateur" level, physique doesn't particularly matter; and what does can be changed in the gym (or McDonalds if looking at front row).
That's why I'm suggesting to pick a position based on what you enjoy doing; and to do so whilst being guided by your local club coach.
When I suggested getting a few matches off the bench first - I'm thinking of shitty amateur level, where the bench has 0-3 people, who fill in as required. If forwards, chances are any bench man will play flanker - where they're least likely to hurt themselves, any back is likely to play winger where they're away from making any decisions.


And this too.



Ultimately, you're 21 and returning to rugby for having had a few years out. When you did play, you played prop.
You're not turning professional any time soon; with the possible exception that you're already a semi-professional sprinter but didn't tell us that.

Starting off the bench at shitty amateur is your level right now. At shitty amateur level, physique doesn't really matter a damn. I'm 182cm, and I was the shorter of my team's 2 SHs; I was also taller than one of locks.
Skill wise, my sprint was barely quicker than my fast-jog, but I could fast-jog for 2 hours without a break, and I had a good pass off either hand, my competition at SH could box-kick and had a better R=>L pass than me, but his L=>R was more even laughable than my box. He was faster than me, but his lungs were busted after 5 minutes of phase play (not that we were good enough to hit 5 minutes of phases without someone dropping the ball of opening the gates in defence). I typically covered FH in the event of injury because no-one else could get their head around making a decision before having the ball in their hands (or a pass that could approach ours, hell our IC couldn't even spin the ball off his R=>L).
That's the skill requirement at shitty amateur. You need to be able to play on instinct to play half-back; you need stupidly strong core to play front row; beyond that, nothing really matters (though height is useful at lock).

You've every chance of evolving into a shitty amateur starter, or even in a few years, reaching reasonably decent amateur starter - by which time, you'll have played pretty much every position at some point in time, and not be needing our advice.


Seeing the conversation between SA... and NZ... It's often claimed that the reason England has so many more players than anywhere else is that our depth pyramid goes deeper into the amateur level and shitty levels. I'd always thought it was just a cop out, especially compared to the likes of France and SA who also have tonnes of players; and Wales and NZ where rugby is what everyone does. Maybe there's some truth in it after all.

Haha alright thanks I got it! It sounds pretty nice to be on the bench if I get to play both flanker and wing good way to make up my mind aswell

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I would temper your expectations to add 20kg of muscle as well. You are still young and may have a lot of growth in you but 20kg is a lot.

Whatever weight training you do, make sure you just follow a programme and eat a lot. After the initial muscle gaining phase you get you will probably need to add weight, then diet down a little rinse and repeat as it's difficult to add muscle without fat. But if you are gaining just keep doing what you are doing until it stops working.

 

[sakura]

I would temper your expectations to add 20kg of muscle as well. You are still young and may have a lot of growth in you but 20kg is a lot.

Whatever weight training you do, make sure you just follow a programme and eat a lot. After the initial muscle gaining phase you get you will probably need to add weight, then diet down a little rinse and repeat as it's difficult to add muscle without fat. But if you are gaining just keep doing what you are doing until it stops working.

Yeah I understand where you are coming from, 20kg really is a lot of muscle... I started training with bodyweight since I was 14 right after I stopped rugby and then at around 15 I joined a gym and quit it at 16 because I moved to a different school, then started again at 17 and quit at 18, then joined again at 19 during my nutrition study but only for half a year since corona came and after that I kind of been a lazy guy working from home, but getting enough sleep for sure haha… I always been in a calorie deficit so my muscle growth was really slow for the effort I put in. A few months ago I started to eat in a surplus and my muscle mass increased really fast, I might have made mionuclei over the years but didnt pack on the size because of my diet and now I have this because of muscle memory, or I might actually have good genetics and gained 8kg really fast since I hit the prime of puberty and am eating great. The muscle I packed recently was probably too good to be true, so I shouldn't get overconfident and expect it to keep going on like this haha. But its very promising so far luckily.

Im cutting rightnow with IF+keto and lost a lot of water weight and I can confirm that most of my weight actually came from muscle with minimal fat and water so lets hope this training and eating schedule keeps working for me

I will also upgrade from my dumbells to a squat/bench/deadlift setup at home next week, so much for my beautiful living room… but on the good side since I'll workout in my kitchen I can be sure that I'll eat enough