Aviva Premiership Round 14

[Irishkid]

Couldn't see a thread so decided to start one. Could be good tonight with the Burns brothers going head to head. Sorry can't do those badge things. We're also playing the next academy boys against a good Northampton team tonight.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tait just bounced Billy Burns into next week :lol:

 

[Cartersos]

Freddie played well and he controlled the game nicely in poor conditions. Kitchener standing out again with some nice steals in the air and strong carries. Can't help but feel he is desperately unlucky not to be on the bench tomorrow. Mulipola was in full beast mode as well! Ran himself ragged!

I see Jack Nowell is starting at 13 for Exeter once again. Seems a strange one with whitten on the wing, do exeter or england see that as his future? I can see the potential for him to play there, and maybe he would have more chance long-term for England rather then sticking to wing.

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Tait just bounced Billy Burns into next week :lol:

'Twas a thing of beauty! His eyes lit up when he looked up and saw it was Billy Burns!

 

[Peat]

There's been a wee bit of chat for a while that Exeter see Nowell's future in the centre. He's not really fast enough for an international winger, not sure why they don't move him to full-back but there we are - he does seem to have a lot of 13 attributes and Slade's long temr future isn't there imo.

 

[j'nuh]

Being slightly too slow for an international winger probably isn't as terminal to your England chances as trying to oust Tuilagi and Joseph though. Strange move for me.

 

[ratsapprentice]

For me too, might be smart for the Chiefs, but can't see it being great for Jack's England chances.

 

[Peat]

Joseph's had one great game for England and two great Premiership seasons (maybe 3). I like what he brings, but he's by no means unshakable. Tuilagi, well, I'll trumpet his destructiveness until the end of time, but his lack of smarts does make him vulnerable if someone else shows very well in the shirt.

Long term, I think England's wing slots are going to get very competitive. I think we've already seen him lose out on pace in this window and there's no shortage of aspiring young players out there.

So maybe not that mad. Why he doesn't punt at full-back, that I do struggle to understand... and it must be noted he'd be small for a 13.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Him not playing at FB is what I don't understand.

 

[j'nuh]

I think there's kind of a bit of game theory going on between Watson and Nowell. Starting at fullback will be the coveted position because there isn't much competition around, meaning it provides the most stability for your England chances. However, if both players move to fullback, one of them will definitely be frozen out of the England XV. The best situation is where one moves to fullback and one doesn't, but the one that moves to fullback gets a much bigger pay-off than the one that doesn't.

Of course, this is about long-term chances. Both players stand a better chance at a wing spot than the fullback spot in the current WC cycle. Lancaster won't be dropping Brown at this stage. It will be interesting to see what happens after the WC though, especially if Lancaster goes for the "too old for the next WC" policy that he used at the beginning of this cycle.

Nowell is in a weaker position because he currently isn't starting for England. Moving to fullback and getting the experience to push his chances ahead at taking the 15 spot within the next couple of years would be the best long-term strategy for me. But he must be worried about Watson moving to fullback. I think that Bath may want to do this so that they can play him, Banahan and Roko all at once.

 

[Peat]

I feel the long co-existence of Brown and Goode blows that one out the water J'nuh; starting at full-back has been no harm to your England chances in the past.

 

[Irishkid]

We got done by Small last night Dowson assaulted Geraghty and did go to that TMO when we scored a perfectly good try. Ah well at least we got a losing bonus point.

 

[Josht36]

I think there's kind of a bit of game theory going on between Watson and Nowell. Starting at fullback will be the coveted position because there isn't much competition around, meaning it provides the most stability for your England chances. However, if both players move to fullback, one of them will definitely be frozen out of the England XV. The best situation is where one moves to fullback and one doesn't, but the one that moves to fullback gets a much bigger pay-off than the one that doesn't.

Of course, this is about long-term chances. Both players stand a better chance at a wing spot than the fullback spot in the current WC cycle. Lancaster won't be dropping Brown at this stage. It will be interesting to see what happens after the WC though, especially if Lancaster goes for the "too old for the next WC" policy that he used at the beginning of this cycle.

Nowell is in a weaker position because he currently isn't starting for England. Moving to fullback and getting the experience to push his chances ahead at taking the 15 spot within the next couple of years would be the best long-term strategy for me. But he must be worried about Watson moving to fullback. I think that Bath may want to do this so that they can play him, Banahan and Roko all at once.

Bath have started playing Watson at 15 a fair bit this season after the loss of Abendanon. Definitely think thats where his long term aspirations are.

 

[j'nuh]

I feel the long co-existence of Brown and Goode blows that one out the water J'nuh; starting at full-back has been no harm to your England chances in the past.

Hmm, maybe, but Lancaster has seen the error of his ways in picking two fullbacks, and we now have a handy pool of wingers to pick from. I just don't see it happening that much in future.

Bath have started playing Watson at 15 a fair bit this season after the loss of Abendanon. Definitely think thats where his long term aspirations are.

This is what I thought. But then, Henson has been picked out of position at 15 a fair bit, and Bath have now signed Homer...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Shame Tait is off to France is the form AP full back ATM.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can anyone who watches Kvesic regularly/closely tell me if last night was a typical performance for him?
I watched him really closely, hoping to finally become a fully paid up member for the Kev-Hype-Train, but I was underwhelmed. Thought most other members of the Glaws pack had a bigger impact at the breakdown and in carrying.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Didn't watch the game... but 22 tackles, 1 turnover and 8 carries for 14 metres sounds OK to me!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Very surprised at that, though I guess he was kind of busy in defence.
Probably a case of stats and what you see with your eyes not necessarily matching up.


Edit: How reliable are the stats on the Aviva site? They reckon not one Tigers player made it to the double digits in tackles (highest was 8!) and that Jamie Gibson only made 3 tackles in the 80 mins (and won 3 turnovers in the process). I mean, I'd be surprised if Gibson only made 3 tackles in the first half, let alone the whole game.

 

[j'nuh]

Can anyone who watches Kvesic regularly/closely tell me if last night was a typical performance for him?
I watched him really closely, hoping to finally become a fully paid up member for the Kev-Hype-Train, but I was underwhelmed. Thought most other members of the Glaws pack had a bigger impact at the breakdown and in carrying.

The camera was so blurry, I just kind of gave up on trying to distinguish players tbh!

What I will say is that due to the conditions, neither team really looked to stretch the other much. Most of it was backs kicking the ball and forwards carrying extremely tight and with tons of players clearing it out. Not really the type of game for too much fetching. You can tell it was that kind of game by how little the centres had to do. Atkinson only made three carries in the whole game!

But yeah, given Tigers had 66% possession and 71% territory, Kvesic should probably be more marked on his defensive work than anything, and making the highest number of tackles (again) is nothing to be sniffed at.

Also, Robson made 15 kicks and 22 passes and Hook made 9 kicks and 2 passes. Absolutely ridiculous stats for half-backs, shows how much pressure Gloucester were under!

 

[ratsapprentice]

Edit: How reliable are the stats on the Aviva site?

Very - they are Opta's.

 

[goodNumber10]

Very surprised at that, though I guess he was kind of busy in defence.
Probably a case of stats and what you see with your eyes not necessarily matching up.


Edit: How reliable are the stats on the Aviva site? They reckon not one Tigers player made it to the double digits in tackles (highest was 8!) and that Jamie Gibson only made 3 tackles in the 80 mins (and won 3 turnovers in the process). I mean, I'd be surprised if Gibson only made 3 tackles in the first half, let alone the whole game.

Trust your eyes over the stats.